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1 posted on 12/09/2009 10:12:01 AM PST by UAConservative
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To: UAConservative

Large waste water treatment plants would probably fall into this category, and some feedlot operators for swine and cattle and chickens might cross the threshold as well. But if not in the first round of regulation most certainly they are in the cross hairs for the second round.

2 posted on 12/09/2009 10:14:30 AM PST by junta (S.C.U.M. = State Controlled Unreliable Media)
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To: UAConservative

There’s a cheaper way to solve this “problem”. Just tell the researchers they won’t recieve a penny of government money until their funny little computer programs make funny little charts showing the temperature declining.

3 posted on 12/09/2009 10:16:25 AM PST by Brett66 (Where government advances, and it advances relentlessly , freedom is imperiled -Janice Rogers Brown)
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To: UAConservative

we are so screwed.

we wont be able to vote these a@@holes out fast enough. and you can be certain they will leave such a tangled mess of red tape behind them, it would take years to clear it all.

it was a nice country while it lasted. remember to take photos to show your kids what it was like.

4 posted on 12/09/2009 10:16:45 AM PST by tm61 (somewhere in chicago, a ward is missing it's crook)
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To: UAConservative
If they are insane, insitutionalize them. If they are criminal, incarcerate them.

Yes, the politicians, bureaucrats and climate frauds.

Maybe they will all freeze to death.

5 posted on 12/09/2009 10:16:49 AM PST by johniegrad
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To: UAConservative; All

COP15 Proposals – summary from AEP simulcast from Copenhagen today
(Americans for Prosperity)
Simulcast at

COP15 Proposals:
- Western Economic Tax of 2% of GDP
- Removal of IP/Patent Rights for New Technologies in Clean Technology
- US Constitution is “only paper”, so “Copenhagen Treaty” as been renamed an “ Executive Agreement” so Obama can sign it shortly
- Words “worldwide government” has been dropped from the “Treaty”; but there are 700 new global gov entities created
- The “Treaty” contains extensive, significant details (currently not being reported) on establishment of worldwide government
- Extensive political agenda of the COP15 meeting is being largely unreported

EPA Endangerment Finding:
- Covers 100% of McDonalds (any fast food restaurant)
- Covers all Mining, Cement Plants, PetroChemical Plants, Refineries, Trains, Shipping, Long-haul Trucks
- Covers all Manufacturing sites of any size
- Covers all Buildings in the US of moderate size and larger which use natural gas or heating oil for winter heat
- Unions are advocating “global welfare” for the millions who will become unemployed “during this necessary economic transition period”
- Estimates range from $1500 - $3000 per year in increased energy costs for the average family of 4 in the US

Rick Perry:
- 400,000 jobs will be lost in Texas from EPA finding
- Electricity costs will rise $1400 per family, on average

Steve (WSJ):
- In the 1970’s scientists & US gov provided extensive data that Global Cooling was occurring
- Global climate models cannot explain cooling over the last 10 years
- Only FOX News & WSJ are covering the ClimateGate Scandal
- Believes that defeat of EPA momentum on new rules and Healthcare bills can only be accomplished in the next 6-8 weeks; after that it will be difficult to reverse – may take a long time (see link to EPA “Federal Interagency Working Group on Environmental Justice (IWG)“ )

6 posted on 12/09/2009 10:16:49 AM PST by Nobel_1 (bring on the Patriots!)
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To: UAConservative

Congress is a bunch of spineless boobs.

Their power was usurped and they got kicked in the teeth.

Now the boobs are whimpering in the corner and hiding from the monster federal government they no longer control.

Democrat or Republican, they should all be up at arms about this shear coup of their power.

The fact that they aren’t is frightening.

7 posted on 12/09/2009 10:21:58 AM PST by dila813
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To: UAConservative
"We have been fighting to make up for lost time," Jackson said, referring to the Bush administration's rejection of the 1997 Kyoto Protocol,

Yet more Bush Derangement Syndrome?

The U.S. Senate REJECTED the Kyoto Protocol in 1997 by a vote of 95-0.

And the president at the time was Clinton!


8 posted on 12/09/2009 10:22:03 AM PST by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
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To: UAConservative

I thought epa was an advisory type thing.

Didn’t know they could make law.

Congress can now be relieved of thier duties, yes?

9 posted on 12/09/2009 10:22:50 AM PST by devistate one four (Back by popular demand: America love or leave it (GTFOOMC) TET68)
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To: UAConservative; Entrepreneur; livius; DollyCali; According2RecentPollsAirIsGood; Thunder90; ...

Beam me to Planet Gore !

10 posted on 12/09/2009 10:26:56 AM PST by steelyourfaith (Time to prosecute Al Gore now that fellow scam artist Bernie Madoff is in stir.)
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To: UAConservative

Now that we are in global cooling due to the lack of sunspot activity, that we will start feeling the affects of that in the next few years, will She and the EPA get all the credit or will administration trash her and the agency and take all the credit for themselves?

11 posted on 12/09/2009 10:27:17 AM PST by Paul Pierett (Paul Pierett)
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To: UAConservative

This bothers me so bad I feel as if I could toss cookies. I cannot stand this! I am so angry!

19 posted on 12/09/2009 10:54:31 AM PST by Irenic
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To: UAConservative
I'm looking forward to the coming decade of colder winters... :-)

Dalton Minimum Returns

 21 Apr 09 - Paul Stanko of NOAA writes meteorologist Anthony Watts to tell him of an interesting development in his tracking of the International Sunspot Number (ISN).

Paul writes:

My running mean of the International Sunspot Number for 2009 just dipped below 1.00. For anything comparable you now need to go back before 1913 (which scored a 1.43) which could mean we're now competing directly with the Dalton Minimum. Just in case you'd like another tidbit, here is something that puts our 20 to 30 day spotless runs in perspective… the mother of all spotless runs (in the heart of the Maunder Minimum, of course!) was from October 15, 1661 to August 2, 1671. It totaled 3579 consecutive spotless days, all of which had obs. To say that that we in interesting times is a huge understatement. We are about to enter a Grand Minimum, which in the past have produced a cooler planet, while our government is preparing for run-away global warming. Who could have predicted this stupidity?

Is a new Dalton Minimum approaching?

Russ Steele

Well 2008 arrived last night and Sunspot Cycle 24 was absent. While we had a flurry of excitement a few week ago when a patch of reverse polarity showed on the Suns surface it soon faded. The Sun reverses polarity with each cycle change. As we have discussed in the past the length of the roughly 11-year sunspot cycle is correlated with temperature and a late arriving cycle can have some long term climate implications for us folks here on Earth. The Cycle 23 solar minimum was at 1996.5, so with an average 11 year cycle we should have seen the new minimum in mid-2007. Here we are in 2008 and the next cycle is already six months late, and the defining minimum generally occurs 12-20 months after the first spot of the new cycle. This would indicate the ending minimum of Cycle 23 and the start of Cycle 24 will come in mid  2009, resulting in a 13 year cycle, the longest since 1784-1797. Interesting to note that this cycle started a long series - 13.6, 12.3, 12.7 years, which coincided with the cold period known as the Dalton Minimum. Stay tuned, these are going to be interesting times. Sun cycles indicate cooling and the politicians are trying stop global warming. We may need a little extra warming over the next thirty years.

Thanks to David Archibald for this graphic showing the relationship of cycle length to temperature in New Hampshire.

Dalton Minimum

The Dalton minimum in the 400 year history of sunspot numbers The Dalton Minimum was a period of low solar activity, named for the English meteorologist John Dalton, lasting from about 1790 to 1830. Like the Maunder Minimum and Spörer Minimum, the Dalton Minimum coincided with a period of lower-than-average global temperatures. The Oberlach Station in Germany, for example, experienced a 2.0° C decline over 20 years. The Year Without a Summer, in 1816, also occurred during the Dalton Minimum.

21 posted on 12/09/2009 11:05:17 AM PST by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
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To: UAConservative
How sunspots were observed “back then”?

From NASA...

The Sunspot Cycle
(Updated 2009/12/08)

Sunspot Numbers

In 1610, shortly after viewing the sun with his new telescope, Galileo Galilei (or was it Thomas Harriot?) made the first European observations of Sunspots. Continuous daily observations were started at the Zurich Observatory in 1849 and earlier observations have been used to extend the records back to 1610. The sunspot number is calculated by first counting the number of sunspot groups and then the number of individual sunspots.

22 posted on 12/09/2009 11:05:38 AM PST by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
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To: UAConservative

Sunspot Activity at 8,000-Year High

By Robert Roy Britt
Senior Science Writer
posted: 27 October 2004
12:58 pm ET

Sunspots have been more common in the past seven decades than at any time in the last 8,000 years, according to a new historic reconstruction of solar activity.

Many researchers have tried to link sunspot activity to climate change, but the new results cannot be used to explain global warming, according to the scientists who did the study.

Sunspots are areas of intense magnetic energy. They act like temporary caps on upwelling matter, and they are the sites of occasional ferocious eruptions of light and electrified gas. More sunspots generally means increased solar activity.

Sunspots have been studied directly for about four centuries, and these direct observations provide the most reliable historic record of solar activity. Previous studies have suggested cooler periods on Earth were related to long stretches with low sunspot counts. From the 1400s to the 1700s, for example, Europe and North America experienced a "Little Ice Age." For a period of about 50 years during that time, there were almost no sunspots.

But a firm connection between sunspot numbers and climate remains elusive, many scientists say.

Better record

The new study, led by Sami Solanki of the Max Planck Institute in Germany, employed a novel approach to pinning down sunspot activity going back 11,400 years:

Cosmic rays constantly bombard Earth's atmosphere. Chemical interactions create a fairly constant source of stuff called carbon-14, which falls to Earth and is absorbed and retained by trees. But charged particles hurled at Earth by active sunspots deflect cosmic rays. So when the Sun gets wild, trees record less carbon-14.

While trees don't typically live more than a few hundred years or perhaps a couple thousand, dead and buried trees, if preserved, carry a longer record, "as long as tree rings can be identified," said Manfred Schuessler, another Max Planck Institute researcher who worked on the study.

The study's finding: Sunspot activity has been more intense and lasted longer during the past 60 to 70 years than at anytime in more than eight millennia.

Sunspot activity is known to ebb and flow in two cycles lasting 11 and 88 years (activity is currently headed toward a short-term minimum). Astronomers think that longer cycles -- or at least long-term variations -- also occur. Scientists in other fields have shown that during the past 11,000 years, Earth's climate has had many dramatic shifts.

"Whether solar activity is a dominant influence in these [climate] changes is a subject of intense debate," says Paula Reimer, a researcher at Queen's University Belfast who wrote an analysis of the new study for Nature. Why? Because "the exact relationship of solar irradiance to sunspot number is still uncertain."

In general, studies indicate changes in solar output affect climate during periods lasting decades or centuries, "but this interpretation is controversial because it is not based on any understanding of the relevant physical processes," study member Schuessler told Translation: Scientists have a lot to learn about the Sun-Earth connection.

Better understanding

The study's methods appear solid: "The models reproduce the observed record of sunspots extremely well, from almost no sunspots during the seventeenth century to the current high levels," Reimer said.

The research could eventually help scientists understand why the climate has changed in the past and allow for better predictions of future change.

"The reconstructed sunspot number will nonetheless provide a much-needed record of solar activity," Reimer said. "This can then be compared with palaeoclimate data sets to test theories of possible solar-climate connections, as well as enabling physicists to model long-term solar variability."

Whatever the result, change is likely to continue.

Solanki's team calculates that, based on history, the chances of sunspot activity remaining at the currently high levels for another 50 years is 8 percent. Odds are just 1 percent the solar exuberance will last through the end of this century.

23 posted on 12/09/2009 11:06:18 AM PST by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
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To: UAConservative
It’s one thing to gripe and complain about these things and disagree with it, but it’s quite another to convince your friends and neighbors and relatives and coworkers...

THEREFORE..., it’s also absolutely necessary for people to know the information in the following documentary. If there were simply one video that you could see and/or show people you know... this would be the one...

The following is an excellent video documentary on the so-called “Global Warming” I would recommend it to all FReepers. It’s a very well-made documentary.

“The Great Global Warming Swindle”

If you want to download it, via a BitTorrent site (using a BitTorrent client), you can get it at the following link. Information about BitTorrent protocol and BitTorrent clients and their comparison at these three links (in this sentence). Some additional BitTorrent information here and here.

Download it here...
[This is a high-quality copy, of about a gigabyte in size. This link is the information about it, and you have to click the download link to get it on your BitTorrent client software. You'll also find users' comments here, too.]

It’s worth seeing and having for relatives, friends, neighbors and coworkers to see.

Also, see it online here...
[this one is considerably lower quality, is a flash video and viewable online, of course..., and also, you can download flash video on a website either yourself or some software doing it.]

Buy it on DVD here...
[this would be the very highest quality version, on a DVD disk, of several gigabytes in size...] At Amazon, it seems to be high-priced now and have only a few copies right now.

At WAGtv (a UK shop), but don't know about shipping. The price is reasonable, though.
[And..., some information from WAGtv about this item.]

Also, in split parts on YouTube...

The Great Global Warming Swindle (Part 1 of 9)

The Great Global Warming Swindle (Part 2 of 9)

The Great Global Warming Swindle (Part 3 of 9)

The Great Global Warming Swindle (Part 4 of 9)

The Great Global Warming Swindle (Part 5 of 9)

The Great Global Warming Swindle (Part 6 of 9)

The Great Global Warming Swindle (Part 7 of 9)

The Great Global Warming Swindle (Part 8 of 9)

The Great Global Warming Swindle - Credits (Part 9 of 9)

24 posted on 12/09/2009 11:06:35 AM PST by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
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To: UAConservative

What about regulating the idiots that are talking on Capitol Hill...oh yeah that is exactly what this is doing...they can just bypass them!

But I would be in favor in an EPA regulation on what is said on Capitol Hill...especially the legislation that is being passed that should be more closely classified as a WMD.

25 posted on 12/09/2009 11:13:57 AM PST by surfer
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To: UAConservative
The EPA is ignoring the fact that the earth's temperature stopped rising ten years ago and climate scientists don't understand why that happened:

Climatologists Baffled by Global Warming Time-Out

My view is that temperatures have stopped rising because they have nothing to do with CO2 levels and the entire theory of global warming is a hoax. It makes no sense scientifically that the earth can release enough of the solar energy absorbed by the atmosphere, land, and oceans so that temperatures stay steady for decades, but then a tiny amount of CO2 (relative to the mass of the atmosphere, oceans, and earth's surface) is somehow able to throw this stable system way out of balance and cause serious warming. That makes no sense whatsoever and the climate "scientists" need to go back to their theory and models and rethink the whole thing because they never gave this theory enough thought and never did enough research into it before hundreds of these clowns jumped on the GW bandwagon, for recognition and profit.

2012 can't get here fast enough, when we can get read of this dreadful foolish administration and its idiotic bureaucrats. You climate "scientists" who are pushing this theory so irresponsibly, you need to go back to your offices and reexamine all of your scientific assumptions and equations and find the ones that are wrong. Any expert statistician can disprove GW theory just by analyzing the history of the temperature record and CO2 levels. This history shows that CO2 levels are influenced by temperature and not the other way around.

26 posted on 12/09/2009 11:21:18 AM PST by your local physicist (If the Canadians and Brazilians can drill for oil off their Atlantic coast, why can't we?)
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To: UAConservative

We must increase the rate of the lies lest our fascism be stopped.

29 posted on 12/09/2009 12:36:19 PM PST by AmericanVictory (Should we be more like them or they more like we used to be?)
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To: UAConservative

Obama wants to prosecute CIA and Bush Justice Dept. officials for anti-constitutional crimes.

Its a fine precedent, as far as I am concerned. in 2012 we can prosecute EPA officials for their attempts to grab-power and become a 4th branch of Gov’t.

34 posted on 12/09/2009 2:24:17 PM PST by PGR88
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To: UAConservative

A shame that she will most likely escape the Mussolini like fate she so richly deserves.

44 posted on 12/09/2009 9:13:20 PM PST by Rome2000 (OBAMA IS A COMMUNIST CRYPTO-MUSLIM)
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