Sentencing before trial. This is about as unconstitutional as it gets.
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Posted on 12/09/2009 11:54:04 PM PST by Dallas59
Motorists who receive minor parking or traffic tickets in Indianapolis, Indiana are being threatened with fines of up to $2500 if they attempt to take the ticket to court. A local attorney with the firm Roberts and Bishop was so outraged by what he saw in Marion County traffic court that he filed a class action suit yesterday seeking to have the practice banned as unconstitutional.
"The deck is stacked against the motorist," lawyer Paul K. Ogden wrote. "To penalize that person for seeking justice seems wrong. I know it is done for the purpose of discouraging baseless challenges to tickets and clogging the docket, but in the process you are also penalizing people who have a legitimate defense and want a chance to present it to the court."
(Excerpt) Read more at thenewspaper.com ...
See my tag line. They will not understand until they are faced with the torches and pitch forks.
I fought a red-light ticket in Plano, a suburb of Dallas. I asked the Cop if he had any witnesses or proof other than his word. Nope. The DA asked me the same question. Nope. Verdict? Guilty. So much for the presumption of innocence.
The day folks realize that law enforcement is not about service, protecting or even catching bad guys, its all about fine money and revenue streams we will be a bit better off in the country.
Then maybe we can do something to fix this scam.
The message is clear. Government is the essential entity and the citizenry are merely parasites tolerated at their whim.
The way you fight red light tickets and police taxes in general is you introduce legislation that says the following: The state can levy the fine (since according to them it is a deterrent)...they just can’t keep the money. This way no one thinks they are just doing it for the money and our citizens are kept safe by the “effective deterrent”. Watch how quickly red light cams and speed traps stop.
Good luck in getting very many state legislatures in passing that one.
bttt
What would have happened if you had said, Its up to you to prove me guilty, not up to me to prove innocence...It comes down to one persons word against another. Presumption of innocence is on your side if you don’t give the prosecutor any information....
While what you wrote is true, they don’t care. The government does whatever it wants now, without any bounds. If your “rights” do not stand in the way of what the government wants, it might let you exercise them. The legal process is in many cases simply a cover for carrying out a predetermined decision.
Check this out.
The Indianapolis Police and the Marion County Sheriff...Never missing a revenue opportunity.
If the government's case against someone is so airtight then what is the concern? People who are guilty will be found guilty.
Of course, contesting traffic tickets eats up government's profits, and we all know what happens when a person gets between a beast and its meal ...
I like this idea. Since it makes sense, it will never pass. :)
Wait until motorists start avoiding the place like the plague; businesses start to shutter, and the city comes crawling back on its hands & knees with “meter holidays” and the like, but it is usually too late. Most Americans today are quite content (and able) to live their lives without ever entering a city.
It’ll get tossed by either the state SC or the US SC.
You can’t use threats or intimidation to deny due process of law.
Unless of course they have to go to court. :)
But I agree, shopping in any type of city these days makes no sense. You have to deal with awful traffic, pay out the rear end for what you hope is the privilege of legally parking your car, and more often than not pay a higher sales tax than you would if you shopped online or locally.
Why bother?
Cops automatically are assumed to not be lying. Fit your own surveillance cameras to your car.
Its time to pluck the feathers and boil the tar!
As far as I'm concerned, the death penalty is just another government program gone wrong. Tell that to one of your liberal friends (if you have any) sometime when they ask "Well, are you for the death penalty?", and feeling all smug that they know the answer. The look you get will be worth it, trust me.
You are more right than you realize. I practice criminal defense. The system is not really about the murderer or rapist; it’s about the kid with the beer in his hand or the guy who ran the stop sign. It’s not about justice, it’s about the money. Cops, judges and probation officers are only tax collectors. The spend more time on the money than they do on what the guy did.
And do you really think the judge, whose check is signed by the government, is going to rule against his paymaster?
I agree with everything you wrote, including on the death penalty. And I think your retort about it being another government program gone wrong is priceless. Death penalty is just a bone they toss us to persuade us that the government is “doing something”, when in fact it is meted out arbitrarily just as you describe.
I got a parking ticket in this crappy city. Looked at the meter and it showed the number 17 on it so I assumed it meant 17 minutes not noticing the minus sign in front of the number. First time I had ever seen that.
Soon they will imprison all arrestees for pleading Not Guily when brought before a “Judge”! And if anyone tries to appeal their death sentence? TORTURE.
The boosters of Red Light Cams are gonna LOVE the behavior of these “Judges”!
Good point!! All revenue from Red Light Cams should be dedicated to orphanages, or homes for wayard women! LOL. The cams would cease overnight!
Yes, and if the police are now just tax collectors, how long till the goverment perverts the Army into being just tax-collecting slaves, too?
Speeding in the state of Virginia can cost you $3550.00
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/18/1818.asp
Pretty soon, everyone will be wearing portable tape recorders everywhere they go! LOL.
Fixed it.
Sworn testimony by an officer of the law carries more evidentiary weight than the silence of the accused. If you're going to fight tickets, you should at least have a basic understanding of what you're up against. It's not "People's Court."
A few of my traffic court cases are here: http://www.aidoann.com/
Yep. There it is. Can't be interrupting the efficient and steady flow of cash from the sheep ya know...
If they don’t want their docket clogged, they ought to write fewer BS tickets.
We are losing are freedom.
ping
I’d dare them to try.
My attorney would have a field day with it!
Hey, I'll be a provider. Where do I sign up?
Thanks for the link. I read it cover to cover!
I’ve made it a personal policy to always fight traffic tickets. When I was younger I got plenty of them, and naturally I had ready rationalizations for each offense. I would venture that about 70% were full-on BS or a splitting-hairs technical violation, and the rest were my hot head.
My success rate was about 40%. I was never as organized or thoughtful in my approach as you have demonstrated. Makes me wonder how many more I might have won if I had prepared a more disciplined case instead of the one I presented ;) I will say that I did prevail in the most egregious case against me (negligent driving).
Nowadays I’m not in nearly as much of a hurry, and I’ve polished my defensive techniques against the predators. I have several nondescript vehicles that blend in with the herd, and one radical hot rod that I drive very carefully.
I learned that there is always someone else in a greater hurry than I am and it is always preferable to let him/her go first. Sometimes I think about thanking them for sacrificing themselves so that I can drive ticket-free.
I am going to check out the NMA more closely.
Thank you again...
The cretins will be sued into the outer stratosphere.
Legitimacy, once lost, can't be recovered automatically. And the current holders of power are rushing ahead in the wrong direction, making the situation worse with every passing day.
Something is going to have to be done about that...
Sure you can....and it happens all the time.
How many examples do you desire?
A Stability Police Force for the United States
Justification and Options for Creating US Capabilities
http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/2009/RAND_MG819.pdf
It about 213 pages. And written for the US Army, 2009.
then watch redlight cams and speed traps increase...with a tax hike to boot for new hardware...
the 'presumption of innocence' is pitted against the highly traind, professional witness on the stand, ya know the guy that wrote the ticket...
case closed...
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