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New species evolve in bursts - Red Queen hypothesis of gradual evolution undermined.
Nature News ^ | 9 December 2009 | Kerri Smith

Posted on 12/10/2009 9:27:01 AM PST by neverdem

New species might arise as a result of single rare events, rather than through the gradual accumulation of many small changes over time, according to a study of thousands of species and their evolutionary family trees.

This contradicts a widely accepted theory of how speciation occurs: that species are continually changing to keep pace with their environment, and that new species emerge as these changes accrue. Known as the 'Red Queen' hypothesis, it is named after the character in Lewis Carroll's book Through the Looking-Glass, and What Alice Found There who tells a surprised Alice: "Here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place."

The Red Queen hypothesis rests on the idea that species must continuously evolve just to hang on to their ecological niche. That gradual evolution is driven by the constant genetic churn of sexual selection.

A consequence of this is that all of the species in a particular family, or genus, gradually evolve to form new species at the same rate.

But Mark Pagel and his team at the University of Reading, UK, challenge this idea. In a paper published today in Nature, they compared four models of speciation — one of which was the Red Queen hypothesis — to see which best explains the rate of speciation in more than 100 species groups from the animal and plant kingdoms, including bumblebees, turtles, foxes and roses.

They looked at the lengths of branches in thousands of species'...

--snip--

The team's findings might stir things up in the world of evolutionary biology. "It really goes against the grain because most of us have this Darwinian view of speciation," says Pagel. "What we're saying is that to think about natural selection as the cause of speciation is perhaps wrong."

(Excerpt) Read more at nature.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Testing
KEYWORDS: catastrophism; creation; evolution; godsgravesglyphs; intelligentdesign; naturalselection; science; velikovsky
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To: metmom
Way to cover all the bases. Then no matter which one pans out, you were right!

Not at all, I'm saying both, if it's all one or the other, or neither, then I'm wrong.

By the "same time", what I really mean is that "gradual" is always going on, but that when the "punctuations" happen, then bigger and faster changes occur.

41 posted on 12/10/2009 3:39:24 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: El Gato
Variation within a species is not the same as new species springing from old. Also, the peppered moth is an example of an evolutionary hoax.
42 posted on 12/10/2009 3:42:40 PM PST by kosciusko51
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To: El Gato
Interesting hypothesis. Can you describe an experiment to prove or disprove the hypothesis?
43 posted on 12/10/2009 3:44:50 PM PST by kosciusko51
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To: GodGunsGuts
If the account of Noah’s Ark in the Bible is true, then two of every kind of land animal (and seven of some) came off Noah’s Ark in the Middle East.

Minor point.

I do recall that the Bible says seven pairs of each of the Kosher animals went onto the Ark.

I don't recall it saying how many *burp* excuse me! actually got off...

44 posted on 12/10/2009 4:18:58 PM PST by null and void (We are now in day 323 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: El Gato
Of course who/what drives the environmental change?

*jumps up and down frantically waving my hand in the air* I know! I know!!!

Algore!

45 posted on 12/10/2009 4:21:39 PM PST by null and void (We are now in day 323 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

.....if this new theory is correct,....

I don’t think it is new.

It is remarkably similar to Stephan J Gould’s Punctuated Equilibrium. It is a matter of fact just some tinkering with that theory.

The fact is, there is no certainty precluding several different evolutionary processes.


46 posted on 12/10/2009 4:25:08 PM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Lukenbach Texas is barely there)
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To: kosciusko51
Variation within a species is not the same as new species springing from old. Also, the peppered moth is an example of an evolutionary hoax.

Sure the photos were staged, as most science photos are. They represent an oversimplification. But, from your link,

Its validity rests upon experiments conducted by researcher H.B.D. Kettlewell during the 1950s, which demonstrated that white moths do have an advantage over dark moths on pale trees, and a disadvantage on dark trees, and vice versa.

While his results were criticized, there is no indication they were faked, nor that they were completely wrong.

If there weren't many black moths around at the time the photo was taken, they have had to use a specimen. The photos are illustration, not evidence.

47 posted on 12/10/2009 5:28:56 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: El Gato

But it doesn’t show evolutionary change. While there is an advantage to being one color or another, the trait to be white or black never left the species. In other words, the information was already there.


48 posted on 12/10/2009 5:52:15 PM PST by kosciusko51
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To: El Gato

Except the moths don’t usually land on tree trunks in nature. So yeh, the entire experiment is flawed. Its still makes the cut for being some of the best evidence for decent from a common ancestor despite being meaningless.


49 posted on 12/10/2009 6:18:05 PM PST by Tramonto (Live Free or Die)
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To: neverdem

This is the way science is supposed to work: scientists throwing rocks at each others theories. The problem with the global warming crowd was that they managed to get hold of the publication process and prevent publication of any rebuttal.

Just keep saying to yourself
“the religion is settled”
“the religion is settled”
“the religion is settled”


50 posted on 12/10/2009 6:28:57 PM PST by Locomotive Breath
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To: bert; Claud; El Gato; neverdem; noiseman

The late S.J. Gould’s model was “diastrophe” — diastrophe was the punctuation mark in the punctuated equilibria.


51 posted on 12/10/2009 6:52:04 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: SunkenCiv

Yes but..... once the effect is developed it is not really to hard to find another cause


52 posted on 12/10/2009 7:01:43 PM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Lukenbach Texas is barely there)
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To: Tramonto
Except the moths don’t usually land on tree trunks in nature

You don't suppose the rest of the trees were affected by the soot of the coal age do you? And yes, birds for which the camo would matter, are not the only predator that east moths, but they do eat them.

53 posted on 12/10/2009 9:14:10 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: El Gato
You don't suppose the rest of the trees were affected by the soot of the coal age do you? And yes, birds for which the camo would matter, are not the only predator that east moths, but they do eat them.

Possibly. The moths roost on the underside of small branches among the leaves of the trees. Its unclear that their coloration had a significant effect on their chances for survival. The experiment was supposed to show that birds were able to see the lighter moths easier and were eating them at a greater rate. This was supposed the be the cause of the increase in darker colored moths. The problem is that the experiment placed the moths in unnatural positions on tree trunks where they were exposed to the birds. The experiment was flawed and should not be used as an example of natural selection.

54 posted on 12/10/2009 10:44:53 PM PST by Tramonto (Live Free or Die)
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To: metmom

“Way to cover all the bases. Then no matter which one pans out, you were right! “

That’s what makes the TOE just an idea and not a theory. There’s no way to falsify it.


55 posted on 12/11/2009 7:07:17 PM PST by webstersII
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To: kosciusko51

“Interesting hypothesis. Can you describe an experiment to prove or disprove the hypothesis? “

Let me know when you get a good answer on this one. I’ve heard some lame excuses for experiments but none under controlled conditions which would prove anything. They try to use adaptation as the example of the TOE but that does not show speciation, in fact it shows the opposite.


56 posted on 12/11/2009 8:05:30 PM PST by webstersII
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To: webstersII

Darwin proposed some, I hear, but that sort of thing isn’t allowed any more.

For every thing that Darwin said would falsify his theory, Darwinists have found some way to excuse it.


57 posted on 12/11/2009 9:45:07 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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