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Fresh Salamander Tissue Found in Solid Rock
ICR News ^ | December 11, 2009 | Brian Thomas, M.S.

Posted on 12/11/2009 8:38:32 AM PST by GodGunsGuts

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To: xcamel

Wiki - term: website run by loons, un-reviewed for accuracy, appropriateness, nor truth. Try again.


201 posted on 12/11/2009 12:03:38 PM PST by RoadGumby (Ask me about Ducky)
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To: RFEngineer
I have converted fresh meat into fossil-like material on my grill before. Perhaps I should have buried it in the backyard for a period of time to restore it’s freshness.

Maybe. I have dogs, so it wouldn't be there when I got back.

202 posted on 12/11/2009 12:03:44 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Pistolshot

Yes we are, and here you are, pointing to His Word and saying it is not true. Good witness.


203 posted on 12/11/2009 12:04:25 PM PST by RoadGumby (Ask me about Ducky)
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To: RoadGumby

We are saying GGG and BTMS* are lying.

Are they god now?


204 posted on 12/11/2009 12:06:15 PM PST by Wacka
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

Read the article idiot!

I posted from the original article.


205 posted on 12/11/2009 12:06:25 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: GodGunsGuts
The 'debate' you want is for any evolution supporter to tell you that you are correct.

No data will support the evolution view that you will accept, and the parsing of articles by you and ICR is one that we object to.

When that is pointed out, you and others just redifine the debate to our faith and religion and use THAT to measure our conservatism.

206 posted on 12/11/2009 12:07:36 PM PST by Pistolshot (Brevity: Saying a lot, while saying very little.)
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To: editor-surveyor

And purposely left out the sentences where they said it wsa fossilized, idiot!


207 posted on 12/11/2009 12:07:54 PM PST by Wacka
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To: RoadGumby

Sounds like you support racist remarks.. are you a racist too?


208 posted on 12/11/2009 12:08:06 PM PST by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: Wacka

What they is true is in relation to the Bible. Parse your words somewhere else.


209 posted on 12/11/2009 12:08:30 PM PST by RoadGumby (Ask me about Ducky)
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To: RoadGumby

Please don;t put words in my mouth. I didn’t say it wasn’t true. we just have differing points of view of the mechanism.


210 posted on 12/11/2009 12:08:53 PM PST by Pistolshot (Brevity: Saying a lot, while saying very little.)
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To: GodGunsGuts; xcamel
xcamel is back to calling Christians on Free Republic the Taliban again—GGG

Why should you care, GGG? He shows himself a total idiot in resorting to such ridiculous (and totally irrational) tactics. Let him shoot himself in the foot....

211 posted on 12/11/2009 12:10:06 PM PST by betty boop (Malevolence wears the false face of honesty. — Tacitus)
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To: xcamel

Blah blah blah.

Give it up camel.

Tarbaby. Term used to describe a figure constructed of tar by Brer Fox, in an Uncle Remus Fable.

Hey evryone, take a look at xcamel!!! A grindingly painful example of the failure of the modern educational system.


212 posted on 12/11/2009 12:10:54 PM PST by RoadGumby (Ask me about Ducky)
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To: Pistolshot

Mechanism? It says how He did it. He created the animals to reproduce ‘after their own kind’ not to reproduce ‘into different kinds’.


213 posted on 12/11/2009 12:12:21 PM PST by RoadGumby (Ask me about Ducky)
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To: xcamel

You the race baitor, and your far-left ‘Wiki’ can exit at any time that you feel artificially offended, and I’m sure that there’ll be no significant objection.

Words mean things, even if you don’t know them. You have proven yourself to be a tarbaby, by the most accepted definition.


214 posted on 12/11/2009 12:14:28 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: GodGunsGuts

215 posted on 12/11/2009 12:15:20 PM PST by IronKros (Science is the great antidote to the poison of enthusiasm and superstition. ~Adam Smith, The Wealth)
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To: Wacka

The freepathons have lasted longer since Nancy Pelosi shut down the economy in early 2007 by promising a tax increase.


216 posted on 12/11/2009 12:16:04 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: Pistolshot

“And aren’t we supposed to be WITNESSES in Christ instead of defining who and what is religious?”

Read 1Corinthians.


217 posted on 12/11/2009 12:17:51 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: RoadGumby

“What they is true is in relation to the Bible. “

No lie is ever true. Why do you hold the holy bible in such disdain as to assert that it is strengthened by a lie?


218 posted on 12/11/2009 12:20:50 PM PST by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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To: mnehring; GodGunsGuts
No argument here that “fresh meat” is a bit of a stretch as a descriptive term.

However, the phrase “sulphur-rich organic residue” indicates an incomplete mineralization of the soft tissues. Even the “composition of the fossil blood is unknown”. The article in link #12 further states that the musculature is “at least primarily, the diagenetically altered remains of the original organic tissues”.

If the sulphurization of the tissue is such a slow process in this particular environment, how does the structure of the organic material remain intact for so long?

Roughly how many more millions of years should it take for the organic material to become completely mineralized?

219 posted on 12/11/2009 12:20:57 PM PST by Sopater (I'm so sick of atheists shoving their religion in my face.)
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To: Wacka

Stop lying!

They use the term fossilized to mean preserved in this case. You have not read the original article in its entirety, or you would not make such stupid comments.


220 posted on 12/11/2009 12:21:26 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: RoadGumby; Pistolshot
The term "kind" has an interesting connotation in the original language. From men ~miyn, it means to "portion out", not necessarily species as many assume. At that, Strongs has an interesting commentary on it Groups of living organisms belong in the same created "kind" if they have descended from the same ancestral gene pool. This does not preclude new species because this represents a partitioning of the original gene pool. Information is lost or conserved—not gained. A new species could arise when a population is isolated and inbreeding occurs. By this definition a new species is not a new "kind" but a further partitioning of an existing "kind".

In other words, a more direct translation is that the term is that they share a common genetic ancestor. Like the phrase "the earth brought forth", the meaning could be a simple way of describing a far greater process than the limited language of the early writers could describe or understand.

221 posted on 12/11/2009 12:22:02 PM PST by mnehring
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To: Buck W.

Buck, my assertion is that the Bible is true. Period

The article describes something which supports the idea of Creation. Sorry that upsets you. Sorry that makes you uncomfortable.

You care nought for truth. It is your only purpose to discredit.


222 posted on 12/11/2009 12:23:33 PM PST by RoadGumby (Ask me about Ducky)
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To: editor-surveyor; Wacka

If I recall correctly, last quarters FReepathon was one of the fastest concluding. It seems to ebb and flow, but has always met its goal.


223 posted on 12/11/2009 12:24:10 PM PST by mnehring
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To: mnehring

Adaptation is not evolution. When all is said and done, a walrus will not change to a bird. Dogs adapted from a common ancestor, but ALL are still dogs, none are now goats.

Evolution is a non-starter.


224 posted on 12/11/2009 12:25:59 PM PST by RoadGumby (Ask me about Ducky)
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To: RoadGumby

“The article describes something which supports the idea of Creation. Sorry that upsets you. “

The Flying Spaghetti Monster also supports the idea of creation. The bible is equally diminished by that association as by the lie in the present article.

Why is your faith so weak?


225 posted on 12/11/2009 12:27:29 PM PST by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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To: mnehring

The last one went ok, but the one before had lasted essentially all quarter. Its only been the past year that has been difficult.


226 posted on 12/11/2009 12:28:42 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: editor-surveyor
Read the article idiot!

Oh, you mean this article where they state:

”We noticed that there had been very little degradation since it was originally fossilised about 18 million years ago, making it the highest quality soft tissue preservation ever documented in the fossil record.” Emphasis added

You know, where they state it was fossilized 18 million years ago?

And I'm the idiot? Methinks you're projecting. Best to go back and brush up on your reading comprehension...

227 posted on 12/11/2009 12:30:08 PM PST by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

Yes, you certainly are an idiot, for pressing your word parsing deception here.

Fossil simply means preserved ancient life, or evidence thereof. Quit trying to stretch things for your ignorant convenience.


228 posted on 12/11/2009 12:32:54 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: bgill
Where’s the required Helen pic?

It said it was fresh salamander tissue.

229 posted on 12/11/2009 12:36:03 PM PST by uglybiker (BACON!!)
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To: editor-surveyor

Well, then, since you are now the sole arbiter of the meaning of words, I guess we’ll defer to your immense power and inscrutable judgment!

Carry on then... Project away!

Oh, and Jesus loves you... All others know you’re an idiot!


230 posted on 12/11/2009 12:37:09 PM PST by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
“To use the presence of soft tissue to challenge all the other evidence for how old the fossils are, you need, among other things, some explanation for what can preserve tissue for some thousands of years that wouldn't work for some millions of years”

Mummies of animals, even frozen as the mammoths were is rare, exceedingly rare. And the salamander wasn't frozen. So different preservation circumstance, different outcomes?

The same sort of question could be asked about why if tissue millions of years old can be preserved and found why would tissues just thousands not be more common than it is.

And yes the assumption was made that the fossil was millions of years old:

“(PhysOrg.com) — Scientists have extracted organically preserved muscle tissue from an 18 million years old salamander fossil. The discovery by researchers from University College Dublin, the UK and Spain, reported in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B shows that soft tissue can be preserved under a broader set of fossil conditions than previously known.”

“...soft tissue can be preserved under a broader set of fossil conditions than previously known.”

OR perhaps the fossils are not as old as thought.

231 posted on 12/11/2009 12:40:49 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

Apparently, he’s taken a mind-altering antibiotic today...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2399414/posts?page=199#199


232 posted on 12/11/2009 12:42:25 PM PST by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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To: Pistolshot
Calling it the 'truth' and then saying the debate is over is what is wrong.

And how is that any different from what the evolutionists do on these threads?

One can't accuse someone of lying unless they know what the truth is. Nor can one tell others that they are wrong without a standard to measure against.

Some evos say that science is about the truth, present their theory as fact, and then go on to tell others that they are wrong.

When it gets down to it, evolutionists have a theory that they think is well supported by facts and that's all they can lay claim to. Anything else, like it's true, is a philosophical argument, not a scientific one..

Creationists support their position with the contention that the one who created it all and created from the dust of the earth and created in kinds, told us what He did.

One view is deduced. The other is by testimony. In either case, no one was there to see it.

233 posted on 12/11/2009 12:48:35 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: RFEngineer

Yes, as in not edible.


234 posted on 12/11/2009 12:49:20 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: count-your-change

When you find a fossil definition which includes the concept of fresh meat, let me know. Until then... it’s lying.


235 posted on 12/11/2009 12:50:01 PM PST by Natufian (t)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

You’ve never accepted defeat gracefully, and this is no exception!


236 posted on 12/11/2009 1:00:58 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: count-your-change
I went back to the original paper linked to in post #12, not the BTMS* lie or the press release that most have been quoting. Bolding mine.

From the introduction:

Herein, we describe, to our knowledge, the first record of organically preserved musculature including its sedimentological context. The muscle's gross morphology resembles that of an extant analogue, but this, alone, is not the basis for our conclusion. Remarkably, despite some degradation before fossilization, diagnostic macromolecular ultrastructural features have been retained.

From the materials and methods:

(a) Fossilized muscle tissue

Samples of muscle tissue identified under a binocular microscope were picked from the specimen using sterile scalpels and needles. For scanning electron microscopy (SEM), samples were not prepared further; they were mounted onto aluminium stubs...

And the conclusions:

4. Wider implications

The detail revealed by TEM imaging unequivocally identifies the organic remains as fossilized musculature from the salamander itself. This therefore confirms, for the first time, to our knowledge, that the high-fidelity fossilization of extremely decay-prone tissues as organic remains is not only feasible but can occur in the absence of protective encapsulating agents such as bone (in the case of the bone marrow, McNamara et al. 2006) and amber.

Nowhere in the paper are the terms "Fresh meat" used. They state throughout that it is fossilized muscle. Therefore BTMS* Lied.

237 posted on 12/11/2009 1:04:31 PM PST by Wacka
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To: metmom

“Yes, as in not edible.”

Not even with barbecue sauce....


238 posted on 12/11/2009 1:07:31 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: Wacka

I like you.


239 posted on 12/11/2009 1:07:44 PM PST by IronKros (Science is the great antidote to the poison of enthusiasm and superstition. ~Adam Smith, The Wealth)
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To: editor-surveyor
You’ve never accepted defeat gracefully, and this is no exception!

Defeat, by you? I will concede you have the edge in verbosity and anger (careful, might cause you cancer), but in terms of facts and logic? You're woefully lacking...

These are fossils; apparently you cannot accept the fact of the article where it states as much. You do know that sulfur is a mineral, don't you?

240 posted on 12/11/2009 1:09:13 PM PST by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

Sulfur is no more a mineral than numerous others found in living tissue. Its a mineral when its free in crystaline form.

You just don’t understand what you read.


241 posted on 12/11/2009 1:12:43 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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