Man dies after stunned with Taser

The Pulse Journal ^ | December 14, 2009 | Denise Callahan

[Hank Kerchief]

“one of the cops was hurt”

Slipped on the donut he dropped.

Hank

[StolarStorm]

You won? So this is a game to you? Posting outrageously inappropriate comments to see who nails you for it? I noticed your comments got whacked to. So my comment was worse than your “taser in ***” comment? You are indeed a sick individual.

[DoughtyOne]

Had he been allowed to walk away he would still be alive.  I have no reason to believe the officers wouldn't have allowed him to walk away if he had calmed down.

What was the crime?  If he continued to be beligerent and refused to calm down, then he was a threat to the employees and patrons of the establishment or possibly any other person he came in contact with.  He was being irrational.  He could be charged with disturbing the peace.  While that's rather vague, it gets him off the street until he's calmed down enough to be let go, or dealt with by a judge.

Does not specify.  Agreed.

Even if it was a robbery that doesn’t justify murdering the guy.  These officers did not subject the suspect to anything more than what thousands of police officers have subjected themselves to.  The officers were operating under the guidelines of their department.  They had no reason to believe tasing the suspect would seriously or permanantly harm him.  This does not qualify as murder.

Maybe the guy had hungry kids at home.  Perhaps so.  And if so, he should have sought out a food bank, or food stamps.  Whatever the case, when challenged by officers he should have backed off and calmed down.

The police are too qucik to escalate rather than difuse situations, IMO.  If the guy was angry, refusing to comply, and seeking to run off while still out of control, the officers had little choice but to incarcerate him.  Incarceration is a form of difusing the situation.  It gives the person sit-down time to rethink their actions, possibly sober up, and become less of a threat to the public before being released.

BTW, look up “Rod Class” and “Letter of Marque” and how it relates to a cops “badge.” You might have a different opinion of law enforcement and our gov’t in general once you educate yourself.

You have read my comments here, and still think I'm out of line for explaining what the officers duties were, and why they were justified to take the measures they did.  You still call their use of the taser to be an act of murder, despite the fact that thousands of LEOs across the nation have subjected themselves to being tased.  I don't believe I have to study up further, to realize you're not really being open to reason here.  For that reason, I'll just leave it at that.

LEOs make mistakes.  They operate outside the law at times and are prosecuted for it.  So far, I don't see any evidence of either of these things here.

[Molon Labbie]

NOT ONE police officer has died as a result of being tased during the training. If tasers are so lethal, surely one out of the tens of thousands that have been tased would have died.

Tasers are considered less lethal. You only hear about when someone dies, not about the ten of thousands of successful deployments or the mere drawing of the taser with a warning that most of the time gains compliance.

A couple of generations ago, before OC spray and tasers, cops hit people in the head with clubs. It got compliance but just as many deaths occurred then. They were just called in custody deaths and no big deal was made of them. There was no Amnesty Internation outcry, no ad nauseum Youtube videos.

Tasers work very well. They leave no permanent injuries and prevent injuries to officers, which cost taxpayers money in off time and hospital bills. Every officer who is injured and not working makes it harder on the community and the agency. A police officer’s job is not to get hurt or even be fair in a fight. When a police officer says “you are under arrest” and you resist, the officer can use EVERY means, including deadly force, to effect the arrest if the other means are not working or are not appropriate. Officers have been killed when they drew a taser to deal with a subject with a firearm. Tasers also should not be used against subjects with knives, blunt objects or other cutting instruments unless the officer has a cover officer drawn, and ready to use lethal force.

You won’t ever see murder charges for taser usage because it lacks the intent.

Now, I am sure many of you have been in a fight with another person. At what point of that fight did you you force your opponents arms behind their back and then put restraints on them? Ever fight and restrain a person on PCP? It’s like a rodeo but you don’t get the option to jump off and quit after eight seconds.

Restraints are no guarantee either. Suspects have broken handcuffs by brute strength, even deformed them enough by jaw strength. An officer whose funeral I attended was killed by a suspect who had hidden a compact .45 in the small of his back and was able to retrieve it while handcuffed and shoot the officer in an exposed portion of his vest.

[thefactor]

you’re kidding me. you think a taser would have been a better choice against that guy with the knife in the video? i hope you’re not a cop because your partner would be in a whole heap of trouble.

[Ditto]

Like I said resisting arrest should not be a prerequisite to getting tazed to death.

So to avoid being tased, all I have to do is resist arrest?

Or should the cops use some less lethal force like a billy club?

What exactly do you think the cops should do with an out of control assh**e?

anybody that supports this type of blatant homicide by law enforcement authorities just because a man was resisting arrest is only encouraging more of the same.

Homicide? What was the perp's intention when he was splitting the cop's head open? Was that homicidal? IMHO, they could have been justified putting a round between his eyes right then and there. They didn't.

With all due respect to your cop phobia, when and where I grew up, if you hit a cop, you were going to have a have you ass beat severely with a night stick. If you drew blood, you would have several .38 police special rounds penetrate your body, not an electrical charge that will just knock you on your ass.

[whatisthetruth]

If it were just an electrical charge that knocked you on your ass, I would have no problem with it, but an electrical charge that puts you 6 feet under, well this country used to use that as a last resort aka an electric chair suitable for killers, of which Douglas Boucher 39, obviously was not.

Nah, I used to be all gung ho for law enforcement but the more I read about more and more taser murders, I'm starting to view them more as a threat to life and limb rather than a protector of same. Absolute power corrupts absolutely even in those with a badge.

[StolarStorm]

At this point, I'm not sure the cops can be blamed. While I feel sorry for my coworker, it doesn't change the fact that her ex hit the officer. A verbal altercation is one thing, but a serious assault is another.

That said, I do think the taser company is hiding something. Yes, they may be winning in court... but that may be because they are settling out of court in cases where it is obvious the taser malfunctioned or affected someone adversely.

[Mark17]

Regards to you and yours.

[whatisthetruth]

Is that the new Law of the Land in America, hit an officer, lose your life, well now that seems like a fair exchange. So this officer gets a knot on the head and in return Douglas gets to be 6 feet under at age 39, my oh my, the wheels of justice turn ever so ruthlessly, you got officers now allowed to play judge, jury, and executioner against 'unarmed' citizens.

I'm sure all Douglas' immediate family members and no doubt the family members of all the other dead taser victims to date will agree that well they too deserved the death penalty without any appeals.

[ReignOfError]

Well I got stuned by a beeber once. But I didn’t die.

While not fatal, I'm sure it was series. You coulda gotten a hugh settlement.

[usshadley]

do you have an objective description of this encounter?

[Beloved Levinite]

So you’re saying he’s better off dead. Gotcha. I disagree. And BTW, might wanna check out Rod Class’s “Letter of Marque & Reprisal” anyway. Repercussions are astounding.
That is, if you care about the future of America.

[DoughtyOne]

You seemed to have all the information you needed to make the comment you did in post 35. Why are you acting like you don’t have enough information now to respond to my question?

The information in the article provides enough basis for you to explain how you would have handled the situation differently than the two officers.

[DoughtyOne]

So you’re saying he’s better off dead.  No..., I'm not!  Link me to the post where you think I said or inferred that.

Gotcha.  Since I haven't said that or inferred it, it would be impossible for you to have caught me, or to have understood what I meant.

I disagree.  This two way converstaion between you and yourself is somewhat amusing.  You make something up.  You say you understand it.  Then  you say you disagree with it.  Wow. 

Why don't you just address this stuff to yourself and leave me out of it, since it isn't based on reality, anything I said or inferred.

And BTW, might wanna check out Rod Class’s “Letter of Marque & Reprisal” anyway. Repercussions are astounding.

You are an individual who hasn't addressed points I did make, to act as if I said or inferred something I didn't.  So what basis do I have for thinking you are a good resourse for advice?  I'm willing to listen to people who are rational, and discuss maters reasonably, but I certainly haven't see that from you so far.  If you want to discuss this on point, then respond on point.

That is, if you care about the future of America.

Honestly, look back at your posts and try to figure out how that type of a reaction to this type of situation, would bode well for our nation.

Yes, I care about the future of our nation.  I just don't happen to think total anarchy is going to create the perfect future for the United States.

You seem to think customers should be able to distrupt the course of normal commerce.

You seem to think a person who tries to beat up police officers should be let go to cause harm to others.

You seem to think the use of non-lethal force in this instance was very unfair.

You seem to think that officers going about their jobs in accordance with sound departmental policy, is tantamount to murder.

And then you try to extrapolate some sort of police state meaning here, as if that would explain away what the suspect did, and trash these officers for doing their job.

I'm not buying it.  For the record, I don't want police state tactics to be used here in the United States.  Those tactics were not used here.

[usshadley]

Please don’t read to much whacko anarchism into my flippant remarks...but we did have a young man killed by tazer here in my town recently... The kid killed was just upset over a breakup with his girl friend and was causing a scene. The officer was really shaken by his death. Tazers are “less lethal”...but not “non lethal”. There is also the trend in this country to federalize and militarize the police at every level...which is unconstitutional. Perhaps our troubles in this time will blow over peacefully and we can reorient ourselves back to the constitution. Perhaps, or perhaps not, in which case we shall see the end of the American experiment.

[DoughtyOne]

I don’t have a problem with anyone addressing reality. If you see a problem with the use of tasers and can back it up with stats of some sort, I’m willing to listen.

The use without that backup, is not murder or evidence of a police state. It may be a mistaken tactic, if there is a liklihood of mortality, but tasers were not meant to cause death. They were supposed to be a means of preventing serious injury to anyone. They were meant to be non-lethal, something that would prevent the use of a nightstick or a gun.

Perhaps there does need to be further debate on the use of them. It seems a few of you have heard of them being used with fatal results. If that’s a significant problem, then it should be addressed. I’m not in favor of a police state.

I do think police departments have escalated the paramilitary aspects of their departments to the point of being nearly a nut-job status. You’ve got a lot of cowboys trying to live out a paramilitary existence, and I’m not totally buying in. For one thing, I don’t like there being more than one swat team in a specific area. The police department should field the only team, and that team should be just short of being as desirous of the perp remaining alive as the victims. As you state, some people like that boy that was upset, aren’t bad people. They just don’t know how to handle certain pain etc.

As for no-knock assault teams, I’d eliminate about 98% of it. There’s just too many wrong doors broken down, and too many peripheral family members and animals killed in the process.

We’re not totally coming at this from a head butting situation. I just don’t like seeing cops on the beat being charged with police state tactics, when other methods to get the situation under control had failed, and they were following sound department policy that is accepted by many departments across the nation.

I’m sorry to hear about that young kid BTW. What a terrible outcome.

Thanks for the note.

[usshadley]

gretat reply, thanks,...comes down to it, we’re on the same side God bless.

[DoughtyOne]

Yes we are on the same team, and I appreciate your willingness to discuss this. Take care bud.