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2nd-grader sent home for crucifix drawing [Obama: "We're No Longer Just A Christian Nation"]
AP Report ^ | December 15th 2009

Posted on 12/15/2009 5:44:07 PM PST by Steelfish

2nd-grader sent home for crucifix drawing Dad says teacher became upset when boy drew himself on a cross

Dec . 15, 2009 TAUNTON, Mass. - An 8-year-old boy was sent home from school and ordered to undergo a psychological evaluation after he was asked to make a Christmas drawing and came up with what appeared to be a stick figure of Jesus on a cross, the child's father said Tuesday.

Chester Johnson told WBZ-TV that his son made the drawing on Dec. 2 after his second-grade teacher asked children to sketch something that reminded them of the holiday.

Johnson said the teacher became upset when his son said he drew himself on the cross. Johnson, who is black, told WBZ he suspects racism is involved. He said he thinks the school overreacted and wants an apology.

Johnson told the Taunton Daily Gazette, which first reported the story on Tuesday, that his son gets specialized reading and speech instruction and has never been violent in school.

An educational consultant working with the Johnson family said the teacher was also alarmed when the boy drew Xs for Jesus' eyes.

A call to Johnson was not immediately returned.

(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: antichristianbigotry; christianstudents; christmas; cross; discipline
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To: muawiyah

>>You are the one who first expressed a decided disinterest in pursuing the religious freedom issues in this case. I didn’t. <<

Now, I have to ask you to reread the thread — it was you who said that this was religious persecution (and suggested I am one of those persecutors) and this was a Freedom of Speech issue.

>>In fact, I suggested the teacher be sent to sensitivity class, and then anger management.<<

Of all the potential screw-ups here by the teacher, I see no anger nor sensitivity issues. What might those be? (please don’t make me sorry for asking)

>>Don’t assume I don’t know something about incompetent teachers ~ even in Special Education.<<

Clearly you have extensive direct experience in these going back many, many years.


51 posted on 12/15/2009 7:11:00 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Steelfish

The boy knew that Jesus died on the cross at Calvary to save mankind from their sins, from eternal hellfire. Good on him. I’d wished every kid in every school drew a picture like that.


52 posted on 12/15/2009 7:11:48 PM PST by myknowledge (F-22 Raptor: World's Largest Distributor of Sukhoi parts!)
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To: myknowledge

>>The boy knew that Jesus died on the cross at Calvary to save mankind from their sins, from eternal hellfire. Good on him. I’d wished every kid in every school drew a picture like that.
<<

And the fact the kid understood that the importance of Christ was His death moreso than His birth shows a fundamental and youthful grasp of what many adults miss.

But I am pretty this was the teacher reacting to the kid saying it was him (the kid) on the cross that caused all the dusting up.


53 posted on 12/15/2009 7:16:30 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: freedumb2003

BTW, do you have the video or audio of the dad re: WBZ?

I don’t see it on the site, newer news, only the poll and a soundoff in the r. sidebar.


54 posted on 12/15/2009 7:19:09 PM PST by AliVeritas ( Pray folks. Psalm 109:8)
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To: freedumb2003
But wouldn’t you be concerned when a kid says he is Christ on the cross, maybe dying? It could be a simple matter, but I would be concerned.

No, I wouldn't. Seriously. Kids that age will say all sorts of things when you start questioning them, especially when they think they may be in trouble or that you want something more than what they're giving to you.

My guess is that the teacher took art therapy in college and is of the opinion that everything has a much deeper, dramatic meaning (which it doesn't). Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar, as Freud once famously said.

FWIIW, cartoons use Xs in the eyes to portray death and knocked out. If you never saw kids using them before wouldn’t it be a bit disturbing to see them?

No, but I seriously question the upbringing of anyone who has ever made it to adulthood without knowing that Xs mean sleeping or dead in cartoons.

The parade of fools who overreact to every little thing kids do and demand psych evaluations for small children continues unabated. Let's skip consulting with mom and dad who could have easily told them that Jr. just got back from visiting a church, and send him in to have his head examined instead.

Zero tolerance for common sense. Zero tolerance for parental knowledge and wisdom. Zero tolerance for kids who don't knuckle under and fit the norm.

55 posted on 12/15/2009 7:21:03 PM PST by mountainbunny (Mitt Romney: Would you buy a used car from this huckster?)
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To: I cannot think of a name

People have to take the context into consideration. This is Mass, where a man who objected to his child reading pro homosexual material was arrested, and the legislature disallowed Constitutional warrant for a vote on homosexual marriage, and the governor boasted that he “sky hasn’t fallen, the ground has not opened up,” since passing it. And Macy’s labeled those who objected to its first floor mannequin display of two homosexuals “hatemongers.” Pray for us.


56 posted on 12/15/2009 7:23:50 PM PST by daniel1212 (Hear the word of the gospel, and believe", (Acts 15:7))
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To: freedumb2003

Found the story.

http://wbztv.com/local/taunton.cross.drawing.2.1370369.html


57 posted on 12/15/2009 7:24:58 PM PST by AliVeritas ( Pray folks. Psalm 109:8)
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To: mountainbunny

>>The parade of fools who overreact to every little thing kids do and demand psych evaluations for small children continues unabated. Let’s skip consulting with mom and dad who could have easily told them that Jr. just got back from visiting a church, and send him in to have his head examined instead.

Zero tolerance for common sense. Zero tolerance for parental knowledge and wisdom. Zero tolerance for kids who don’t knuckle under and fit the norm.<<

I agree wholeheartedly. My argument from the beginning has been that this was a reaction to the “death” part of the drawing (especially when the kid says it is him on the cross), not the Christian part.

I really don’t know if it was an overreaction or not. But at least the teacher was paying attention.

The reaction also may have perfectly appropriate, given information none of us are privy to.

What we can reasonably conclude is:
1) This wasn’t religion-bashing nor is it a Freedom of Speech issue.
2) This wasn’t racial (I think the Dad is setting up for a payday)


58 posted on 12/15/2009 7:27:35 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: AliVeritas

That is pretty much the same story — I didn’t see any new info in it that differs from the OP.


59 posted on 12/15/2009 7:28:59 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Steelfish

The boy isn’t the one in error here — the teacher is.


60 posted on 12/15/2009 7:29:12 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Steelfish

What if the boy had drawn Jesus in the Christmas ceib/manger?


61 posted on 12/15/2009 7:29:52 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: AliVeritas

Oh, the video... stand by... :)


62 posted on 12/15/2009 7:30:04 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: freedumb2003

My first post on this thread is #2.


63 posted on 12/15/2009 7:32:02 PM PST by muawiyah (Git Out The Way)
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To: AliVeritas

OK, this thread has offically gotten to me.

When it was starting I thought for sure it said “SUFFERING.” In fact, it said “BUFFERING.”

Time to do that last post for the night I think...


64 posted on 12/15/2009 7:32:59 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Steelfish

What a wacky story this is. The kid had seen crucifixes previous to the drawing, and what’s wrong with him drawing himself on the cross? Maybe he wants to be just like Jesus. Maybe he wants to be a saint and savior of sorts. And Xes for eyes? What the heck is wrong with that? This teacher overreacted IMHO, and I don’t blame the father for being upset. Moving to another district is a bit much as that stress probably doesn’t help the kid either, but this story reminds me of my son who was about 10 years old and drew the cover of his Spanish/American report with cartoon guys shooting bullets at one another. The teacher freaked and said although the report was done well, she didn’t want any violence depicted on the cover, so she marked him down a grade. He was really ticked off. I don’t blame him. In wars, they shoot bullets, not marshmallows.


65 posted on 12/15/2009 7:37:33 PM PST by mlizzy ("Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person" --Mother Teresa.)
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To: muawiyah
The teacher needs to be sent to sensitivity classes ~ and then anger management.

Yes, and it doesn't make any more sense now than way back then. The teacher didn't blow up at the kid, nor can we see any insensitivity. He didn't mock the kid (from what we have been told), nor told the kid he was wrong for what he did.

What specific behavior of the teacher suggests either of these remedial actions?

IBTP isn't really much of an argument.

66 posted on 12/15/2009 7:37:51 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: freedumb2003
Your first post is #4. It was in reaction to my point that the teacher needs to be sent to sensitivity and anger management classes.

You then stated that it wasn't about freedom of religion.

Up to that point I said nothing about religion. My take was that the teacher was either in heat, or in PMS, or maybe both simultaneously, and needed serious counseling.

My side the discussion was decidedly secular until you busted in with your misconstrued "Jesus stuff". Now what the heck kind of Atheist are you to be running around imagining Jesus all the time. You should be checked out by competent authority somewhere.

67 posted on 12/15/2009 7:39:52 PM PST by muawiyah (Git Out The Way)
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To: freedumb2003
First of all NOTHING WRONG happened that could possibly have been the business of the teacher. The kid drew a picture. The lesson plan was to draw a picture that reminded the child of the season. End of story.

The teacher let her emotions runaway with her when she demanded an evaluation of the child.

There was no basis for the request ~

68 posted on 12/15/2009 7:42:49 PM PST by muawiyah (Git Out The Way)
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To: copwife

Excellent point! Besides, wasn’t the assignment to draw something with which the child associates Christmas? I think it wouldn’t be too hard to see the connection....


69 posted on 12/15/2009 7:44:05 PM PST by JLLH
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To: muawiyah

>>Your first post is #4. It was in reaction to my point that the teacher needs to be sent to sensitivity and anger management classes.

You then stated that it wasn’t about freedom of religion.

Up to that point I said nothing about religion. My take was that the teacher was either in heat, or in PMS, or maybe both simultaneously, and needed serious counseling.<<

Yep — I really meant to respond to the OP because the direction of the article suggested this was a result of Christian bashing. I must have clicked on yours instead.

We have wasted all this thread trading clever biting repartee when I wasn’t intending to respond to you at all! LOL!! I don’t blame you flaming up a bit, but a simple “HUH?” to my #4 might have saved us both many electrons (not that it is your job to police my posts).

>>My side the discussion was decidedly secular until you busted in with your misconstrued “Jesus stuff”. Now what the heck kind of Atheist are you to be running around imagining Jesus all the time. You should be checked out by competent authority somewhere. <<

If there is a competent authority that can help me click on the correct link, bottle it and sell it! (but of course FR would shrink to 1/3 its size). :)

But FWIIW, I was going to ask you what anger and sensitivity issues you see. So you can take that on now, should you be inclined.


70 posted on 12/15/2009 7:48:59 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: muawiyah

>>First of all NOTHING WRONG happened that could possibly have been the business of the teacher. The kid drew a picture. The lesson plan was to draw a picture that reminded the child of the season. End of story.<<

I beg to differ. A kid said he wanted to die. Different interpretations of the same act. I am not a child psychologist, but at least it wasn’t arbitrary.

>>The teacher let her emotions runaway with her when she demanded an evaluation of the child. There was no basis for the request ~<<

There may have been a legal basis and who knows what the teacher thought. And you have to admit the crucifix at Christmas is a little odd.

I am not saying it was NOT an overreaction. I am saying that you can’t conclude it wasn’t the proper course of action based on the situation and information provided to us.


71 posted on 12/15/2009 7:53:05 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: freedumb2003
I don't need no steenking classes (pulls other poster's head close, butts it, knees face as other poster falls backwards, and then proceeds in a close imitation of latest anime cartoon to finish the job. Performs tebagging ceremony in victory dance.)

This is why you gotta' make sure you are posting to the right people; else strange things could happen.

72 posted on 12/15/2009 7:55:34 PM PST by muawiyah (Git Out The Way)
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To: freedumb2003
Uh, a Crucifix at Christmas is pretty common in Christian communities. I doubt Mexicans could have a parade without dragging several hundred of them down the street from and to the local church (or cathedral).

My church doesn't use them but we know what they are ~ there's no way that teacher didn't know.

73 posted on 12/15/2009 7:57:34 PM PST by muawiyah (Git Out The Way)
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To: Steelfish

“Johnson, who is black, told WBZ he suspects racism is involved. He said he thinks the school overreacted and wants an apology.”

Wrong as the school is, why is the race card whipped out here? Do we just keep it at the top of the deck to play every time we get upset?


74 posted on 12/15/2009 8:00:55 PM PST by Blue Collar Christian ( What happened to my tag line?)
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To: muawiyah

>>I don’t need no steenking classes (pulls other poster’s head close, butts it, knees face as other poster falls backwards, and then proceeds in a close imitation of latest anime cartoon to finish the job. Performs tebagging ceremony in victory dance.)<<

Ah, the Mayor Daily (c 1968) approach to managing conflict... Did we need the Borat reference? LOL


75 posted on 12/15/2009 8:02:09 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Blue Collar Christian

>>? Do we just keep it at the top of the deck to play every time we get upset?<<

Ya think?


76 posted on 12/15/2009 8:03:00 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: JamesA

I don’t get it ..This teacher couldn’t handle this “nothing situation” on her own? No one drew weirder sh*t in school than I did , that’s what little boys do .


77 posted on 12/15/2009 8:06:32 PM PST by sonic109 (and...what are we going to do about it ? NOTHING ?..so shut up and take it !)
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To: JamesA

I don’t get it ..This teacher couldn’t handle this “nothing situation” on her own? No one drew weirder sh*t in school than I did , that’s what little boys do .


78 posted on 12/15/2009 8:06:46 PM PST by sonic109 (and...what are we going to do about it ? NOTHING ?..so shut up and take it !)
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To: freedumb2003

Your not engaging with most freepers, and of those you do, you manage to get into a position of personal assault towards a few of them. Almost like clockwork it is.


79 posted on 12/15/2009 8:08:06 PM PST by valkyry1
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To: valkyry1

>>Your not engaging with most freepers, and of those you do, you manage to get into a position of personal assault towards a few of them. Almost like clockwork it is.<<

Your netiquette matches your grammar.

And I can assure you that of all the FReepers, past, present and future, that have graced and will grace these confines, you are the least meaningful and the most vapid. Ever.

God, it sucks to be you.

Go. Away. Tell your Mommy you need more Dr. Pepper for your man cave.


80 posted on 12/15/2009 8:13:38 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: daniel1212

Well, Macy’s will get no more of my money ever again after reading this! All one has to do is go on just about any political forum on the internet, except for a handful like FR, and see the Christian bashing that goes on for sport. Few stand up to it. It makes me sick and angry to the point that I can’t even go on those sites anymore.


81 posted on 12/15/2009 8:14:22 PM PST by Patriot4ever
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To: mountainbunny

&100 agree my friend. It’s all bullsh*t. So what , the kid drew himself on a cross.I’d like to see some designer analyst go through some of my grammar school drawings, they would lock me away .That’s what little boys do , draw wierd stuff in school when they are bored.


82 posted on 12/15/2009 8:14:35 PM PST by sonic109 (and...what are we going to do about it ? NOTHING ?..so shut up and take it !)
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To: sonic109

>>I don’t get it ..This teacher couldn’t handle this “nothing situation” on her own? No one drew weirder sh*t in school than I did , that’s what little boys do .<<

Despite the flack I am taking, I think there are some trigger points here.

I was raised Catholic and have been a Christian all my life. Some here have said that it is “normal” to associate the Cross with Christ, thus Christmas. But, most 8 YOs, even those who are impressed with their first understanding of Christ’s sacrifice for us, don’t make that set of associations.

Most kids of that age either relate to to the secular aspects (presents, tree, lights, Santa, etc.) or the warmer parts of the Bethlehem story (Nativity scenes, Mary and the Christ Child, the Star, angels singing joy to the world, etc.)

I would posit that it is unusual — perhaps shocking — that a child would create Easter images for this AND would then associate those images with himself.

Many here have stated arguments along the line of “well, that isn’t unusual.” I assure you it is.

Teachers need to pay attention to kids. And to misread signs outside the norm isn’t a crime and may be demanded by their contract and maybe even state law.

If this was overreacting (I think it was), then I just don’t see any significant harm, nor do I see any malice. It might be CYA, compliance, over-concern or just dumb. But that is a heck of a continuum.

And we know it ain’t race.


83 posted on 12/15/2009 8:25:39 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Patriot4ever

Macy’s is mild compared to the Boston Globe-alist. But MA has its good qualities also, because it was not founded upon liberal San Francisco type morality.


84 posted on 12/15/2009 8:26:55 PM PST by daniel1212 (Hear the word of the gospel, and believe", (Acts 15:7))
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To: Steelfish
If the teacher is THAT surprised by what an 8 year old could do with their imagination, then he better leave the classroom IMO. SUE!
85 posted on 12/15/2009 8:29:04 PM PST by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: freedumb2003
I think my biggest problem is that schools generally, and this one specifically, see parents and families as their enemy, not to be trusted or respected.

I don't see the teacher or the school as caring for this child. If they had, the first thing would have been to call the parent and discuss the issue rather than jumping straight to psych evaluations. This could have been settled with a phone call.

Being subjected to intense questioning by strangers may have made the idiots in the system feel better somehow, but it almost certainly did not make the child feel better.

I understand that some parents are abusive and some parents are neglectful and that the school has to be careful. But there is a difference between being careful and treating the family unit like discarded garbage.

I'm guessing that these parents aren't abusive. I'm guessing that parents who spend days taking their children to see the Christmas decorations at a religious shrine are probably pretty decent people who care about the development of their offspring.

They weren't treated like decent people or good parents, though. No one asked their opinion, or asked for their input. They were treated with disrespect and disdain.

So... racism or religious discrimination? Possible, I guess, but probably not. This dad only has his own experience to fall back on, but my guess is that the system, like many, generally disrespects parents regardless of color or religion.

The disdain which so many school systems show for parents is worse than any racism or religious discrimination, in my opinion. Those things are usually the result of a bad apple or two and can be dealt with.

The sort of irrational disdain that allows the school to swing into action and systematically exclude parents is a much bigger problem.

86 posted on 12/15/2009 8:53:21 PM PST by mountainbunny (Mitt Romney: Would you buy a used car from this huckster?)
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To: freedumb2003

The last time I got into the position you’re in here, I got my post nominated for the stupidest post of the year.

I believe a key detail left out of this particular article about this event, is that the teacher asked the students to draw a picture of what Christmas meant to them. That, combined that these are special needs kids, the kid said something weird about one of the most violent scenes in Christianity and the teacher, or perhaps her supervisor, the principal over reacted by not bringing the parents in then, or possibly many other options that none of us who are not in the profession are not immediately aware of.

I wonder why Christmas was even brought up in a MA public school. I thought it was already taboo. The teacher assigning the drawings should expect to see some Christian interpretation, and this kid’s was probably not the only with a Christian theme. What the kid said was a little strange, but adult overreaction is the heart of this problem. Not religion, not race.

Sometimes we FReepers let our passions overrule our reasoning.

Present company excluded, of course.


87 posted on 12/15/2009 8:54:26 PM PST by Blue Collar Christian ( What happened to my tag line?)
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To: Blue Collar Christian

>>The last time I got into the position you’re in here, I got my post nominated for the stupidest post of the year.<<

Always nice when you are digging a deep ditch to have a helpful neighbor stop by and yell down “How ya doing???? Do you need me to toss down another shovel???” ;)

>>I believe a key detail left out of this particular article about this event, is that the teacher asked the students to draw a picture of what Christmas meant to them. That, combined that these are special needs kids, the kid said something weird about one of the most violent scenes in Christianity and the teacher, or perhaps her supervisor, the principal over reacted by not bringing the parents in then, or possibly many other options that none of us who are not in the profession are not immediately aware of.<<

Agreed there are a lot of possible scenarios. My point is knee-jerk responses are not the best.

>>I wonder why Christmas was even brought up in a MA public school. I thought it was already taboo. The teacher assigning the drawings should expect to see some Christian interpretation, and this kid’s was probably not the only with a Christian theme. What the kid said was a little strange, but adult overreaction is the heart of this problem. Not religion, not race.<<

Yes. You summarized my posts quite nicely. Here is your shovel — I used it to create steps.

>>Sometimes we FReepers let our passions overrule our reasoning. Present company excluded, of course.<<

No, I will plead guilty to that charge :) What is the point if we don’t pursue our thinking passionately?


88 posted on 12/15/2009 9:07:50 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: mountainbunny

What you said.

Maybe we have a new buzz word for discrimination; parexclusionism?


89 posted on 12/15/2009 9:10:04 PM PST by Blue Collar Christian ( What happened to my tag line?)
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To: freedumb2003

No, I will plead guilty to that charge :)

++++++++++

Same here. ;^)


90 posted on 12/15/2009 9:14:36 PM PST by Blue Collar Christian ( What happened to my tag line?)
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To: Blue Collar Christian

If Christianity wasn’t taboo enough before, they will try to use this to make it more so. State-sanctioned secularism. Search The End of Secularism By Hunter Baker


91 posted on 12/15/2009 10:13:57 PM PST by daniel1212 (Hear the word of the gospel, and believe", (Acts 15:7))
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To: freedumb2003

LOL!


92 posted on 12/15/2009 10:21:41 PM PST by valkyry1
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To: freedumb2003

LOL! I must have been freepr target #2 for you today ;)

Not that it means a lot, you just underlined the point I made about you. If it bothers you that much then change it, if it dont, then live with it, thats all.


93 posted on 12/15/2009 10:53:04 PM PST by valkyry1
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To: All
When I was a kid in the 70’s I sat around drawing pictures of tv cowboys. Of course those old westerns were reruns and the guys starring in them were as old or older than my parents, but who cares I was enamored of the west and drew pictures of tv gunslingers shooting it out, blood and all. I drew pictures of six shooters, Winchester Rifles and Indians with bows and arrows(and people getting shot with bows and arrows).In class right in front of the teachers. All the other girls in my class were in love with rock singers and I was attracted to tv and movie cowboys.I had a western encyclopedia I carried to class with me and it was full of 1800’s pictures of guns and the after effects of gun fights. My parents had guns and my father had 2 old 1800’s pistols that he gave to me after he rendered them inoperative by taking the firing pins out. All the other kids played shootout with toy guns and I had the real McCoy.I ran around outside and up and down the street and proudly showed off my guns and not a single person turned me in (did I mention I grew up in Texas?).
Here's the best part I took the guns to school for show and tell. My parents weren't the least bit concerned about this. They gave me a camera case to take them in.They told me to make sure the teacher kept them at her desk for safekeeping.And to show her they were unloaded and had no firing pin.So I show up in school plop the case down on the teachers desk whip the guns out, open them up show her the firing pin and that they were unloaded. She didn't know what the heck a firing pin was but she didn't bat an eye or act the least bit unnerved by it.She kept the guns until I showed them and at the end of the day I merrily skipped home with my guns and a good grade. I also brought a dead snake and a pocket knife collection to school. But then I always had a pocket knife with me. My father made a bowie knife for me and I ran around outside throwing it at things and the neighbor kids and I ran around on the streets with pellet guns and BB guns shooting at everything in sight, no one thought anything about it. In 1979 a local department store had a turkey shoot to win electronics inside the store on their back wall and all the boys and girls came traipsing through the store with their BB guns. All the trucks had gun racks. Bah!!! How times have changed in the last 30 years.Oh heck most of this no tolerance stuff didn't start until Clinton.Can you imagine a little girl today doing the things I've described? PS: I still think cowboys are darn cute. No metro-sexual men for me!!!
94 posted on 12/15/2009 11:49:35 PM PST by sanjoaquinvalley (Long time lady lurker.)
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To: GovernmentShrinker

Hell!!!! How old is the teacher????

Now don’t tell me she’s twenty years old...but I’m not far off. Maybe SHE’s still a baby!???

Just because a teacher goes to college doesn’t mean she doesn’t have to use her brain...all that child psychology BS needs to be taken w/a grain of salt...hell just teach the class and love the kids.

How could a 2nd grade teacher look at a drawing of the cross which is forever..everywhere especially at Christmas time...and think something was wrong w/the child.

X’s on the eyes represents dead...he’s a smart kid.

Unfortunately...CPS will be out to the house...the child will be moved away from the parents for observation for a year...or until the parents confess to...anything and be put on probation for 5yrs.

When CPS has ruined their lives finally....they say”Job well done”..and move to the next case.


95 posted on 12/16/2009 12:26:55 AM PST by bobaloobob
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To: GovernmentShrinker

Hell!!!! How old is the teacher????

Now don’t tell me she’s twenty years old...but I’m not far off. Maybe SHE’s still a baby!???

Just because a teacher goes to college doesn’t mean she doesn’t have to use her brain...all that child psychology BS needs to be taken w/a grain of salt...hell just teach the class and love the kids.

How could a 2nd grade teacher look at a drawing of the cross which is forever..everywhere especially at Christmas time...and think something was wrong w/the child.

X’s on the eyes represents dead...he’s a smart kid.

Unfortunately...CPS will be out to the house...the child will be moved away from the parents for observation for a year...or until the parents confess to...anything and be put on probation for 5yrs.

When CPS has ruined their lives finally....they say”Job well done”..and move to the next case.


96 posted on 12/16/2009 12:28:39 AM PST by bobaloobob
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To: All

I hope I get this posting down pretty soon...I’ve never had any trouble before a couple days ago.

Sorry folks...I don’t seem to recognize that it has been posted. the first time.


97 posted on 12/16/2009 12:36:33 AM PST by bobaloobob
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To: freedumb2003
Saying it is YOU who is on the cross is not normal and we have no way of knowing what the teacher knows or doesn’t.

The Apostle Paul said it, in Galatians 1:20, but that's beside the point.

The boy only said that, according to ABC News' online article, AFTER they had dragged him down to the principal's office and they had worked him over a little bit.

See post 21 above.

Here's the ABC article: Link

"The teacher brought him down to the principal's office and they asked him why does he have Xs on his eyes, and the student said his eyes are closed because he is dead," said Toni Saunders, an educational consultant who was brought in to counsel the boy's family.

According to Saunders, school officials began to quiz the boy about the meaning of the Xs on the eyes and about his understanding of death. At one point the boy said he was actually showing himself on a cross. They called his father.

They took one utterance, made by a special-needs eight year old in a highly stressful and anxiety-inducing situation, and ran with it.

The fact that they're hanging their hats on this claim strikes me as a steaming pile of bull and a frantic CYA effort by these school officials.

If you're sitting in a smelly concrete interrogation room in the police station getting "quizzed" by police who think you committed a robbery you didn't commit, are you absolutely certain that you'll be able to say exactly what you mean in exactly the right way the entire time and that nothing you say could be misinterpreted? And then consider how much older than eight years old you are.

98 posted on 12/16/2009 4:56:13 AM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: freedumb2003
I beg to differ. A kid said he wanted to die.

Bull! That's the feeble little piece of Kleenex around which the school officials are circling their wagons in a craven effort to avoid the withering condemnation that is righteously raining down upon them from religious people from around the world.

See post 98.

99 posted on 12/16/2009 5:03:55 AM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: sonic109
So what , the kid drew himself on a cross.

No he didn't. He drew Christ on the cross after a family visit to the National Shrine of our Lady of La Salette, pictured here:


100 posted on 12/16/2009 5:06:59 AM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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