Posted on 12/16/2009 12:57:47 AM PST by Chet 99
Police action called 'self-defense' in shooting death of mentally ill woman
Toledo's police chief says his preliminary review of a police-involved shooting Monday night indicates the officers acted in self-defense and that the shooting was justified.
TPD chief Michael Navarre identified the woman killed at a group home as Linda Hicks, 62. She was shot and killed during a confrontation with police at a group home on Fernwood near Detroit Avenue in Toledo. Police were dispatched after a call that the woman had been brandishing a knife.
Chief Navarre said Officer Diane Chandler, a three-year member of the police department, answered the call with another officer, Rebecca Kenney. Kenney at first tried to use a taser to subdue Hicks but the taser malfunctioned.
Police say Hicks was holding her hands underneath a pillow in her bed and was ordered to show police her hands. Instead, police say Hicks pulled scissors from underneath the pillow and threatened the officers.
Officer Chandler shot Hicks four times, killing her instantly. Hicks had no police record but police say she was being treated for health problems, both physical and mental.
Chief Navarre says Officer Chandler acted in self-defense. "Officer Chandler and Officer Kenney both indicated Linda Hicks advanced toward Chandler with scissors in raised position."
(Excerpt) Read more at abclocal.go.com ...
Liars...
That would be my guess murders and liars and too chicken to have a badge.
man...cops will shoot yer ass so quick these days...it’s this damn every cops really thinks he’s a navy SEAL on patrol in injun country mentality
dumb....and dangerous
that woman shoulda had a pitbull Chet..
#1 on Obama’s death panel even before the “Health Care” bill is passed. Shot four times? The shooter should go to prison. How about to the Thompson Prison in ILL. Lots of room there.
Yeah, those elderly women are a real threat to the new breed of sissy cops we have now.
Frightened little mini-tyrants armed to the teeth with an assortment of citizen-torture devices.
The men in blue that we used to respect are now the men in black that we fear and loathe.
America’s senior citizens beware.
Just because a shooting is “justified” per se, don’t me its a good shoot.
As someone who has spent severals years, way back when as a full-time officer during my college days. And then many, many years as a Reserve Officer and still currently a Reserve Deputy Sheriff.
If I shot everyone that I could have legally “justified” shooting. I would have filled up a small graveyard...
Politicians, Law Enforcement Administrators and the rank and file Cops themselves need to rethink the way they conduct business today.
Killing people simply because you can “justify” the killing is wrong.
Isn’t this why they have tasers and bean-bag rounds and stuff ?
“In an interview with 13abc, Hicks’s daughter Carmen Boyd said her mother was not a violent person and was not capable of killing someone.”
Every swinging and swingless dick on the planet is capable of killing someone.
Just out of curiosity, what do you base that opinion on?
I would have shot her too.
Had a call, about 1979, of a man with a sucking chest wound having a beer in a bar. Sure enough he did. His wife, an “elderly lady” in her 60s had shanked him with a pair of scissors right in the lung during a disagreement in their home.
RIP.
I wasn't there so maybe there's a justification but it's just very hard to believe.
“I wasn’t there...”
That pretty much sums it up.
Well, I vote that the US Govt. put teams of lawyers in ever state and have them linked up to every Police Department. That way, just like the military has to ask lawyers for permission to do something in Iraq or Afghanistan, so will each police officer on each call. It only makes sense. Obviously every police officer is a “pussy with a badge and a gun”. We NEED complete oversight on every call and every issue the police handle. It’s plain to see that we live an east-German or Cuban style state with each cop being nothing short of a mindless storm trooper who are totally incompetent. I vote that all police need to be disarmed. It’s only right because they are so threatening. Just disregard the instances of all the police officers being assassinated this past year. There’s obviously no reason for the “idiots with badges” to be hyper-vigilant.
The thing is nowadays, it seems the cops have no patience. The lady is nuts so give her a little leeway and step back. The desire to solve a situation asap seems to often have bad results. I realize someone with scissors can be dangerous, but why aren’t there other ways to deal with this than shooting someone 4 times? What about rubber bullets or throwing a net on them? It just seems there should be a better way because expecting mentally ill people to be logical and follow orders is itself illogical.
So, maybe a 6’ tall and about 200 lb police officer should have been there. :0)
That is not a bad idea. It is ashame that police misbehavior in this country has made ideas such as yours seem reasonable, but alas if you can not obey the law and behave, we have to take additional steps.
"Kenney at first tried to use a taser to subdue Hicks but the taser malfunctioned."
why is it that cops, when called to a riot scene or similar confrontation where they may be up against several people possibly throwing rocks or bottles etc, are equipped with shields and batons and rubber bullets and whatever, and where they would rarely dream of opening fire on people physically threatening them- but will go to a group home for mentally ill people to deal with someone reportedly brandiahing a knife, and will have no recourse for subdueing someone other than a taser or bullets?
“Kenney at first tried to use a taser to subdue Hicks but the taser malfunctioned.”
So two cops had only one taser between them?
The taser failed so the immediate fallback was to shoot the crazy woman *four* times ?
They knew they were being dispatched to a “group home” which should have given the cops a big clue as to the mental state of someone there and they couldn’t come up with a better scenario than taser-bang-bang-bang-bang ?
I’m all for killing criminals, but when you put someone into a “group home” there’s an implication that they’re there for their own safety, where they’re going to be looked after at a slightly higher level than getting killed at the first sign of trouble.
I was being sarcastic. I hoped it was conveyed. I would think that most conservatives would be able to see how the progressive lame-stream media has indoctrinated the sheeple to believe that we live in a totalitarian police state when in fact.....drum roll please.....we don’t. The point of my post was just that. I was also trying to associate the fact that our soldiers getting hamstrung by the PC liberals in a war-zone would also do the same to our police....an in fact it’s happening already.
You assume there wasn’t an attack.
I’m assuming there was an attack and that’s what provoked the cops to retaliate.
If you’re pulling up to a place for a domestic dispute with a report of a mental patient armed with a weapon threatening to kill people; should the cops have given a negotiator a piggy back ride up to the scene too?
I have a feeling, no matter what the cops would have done in just about any scenario, you take the side of the little old (crazy violent) lady.
And yes, cops shoot four times. They shoot until they’re out of bullets or the insane violent person’s body has stopped coming to kill them. They also “double tap”.
The officer shot the woman as she lunged at police with a pair of scissors raised over her head, Chief Navarre said. She was shot more than once — a total of four shots were fired — and she was pronounced dead in the house last night. The chief said he could not say where the shots hit her.
Seems like the first article didn’t have much detail at all.
-
Hicks got off the bed and said “I’m going to kill you or you’re going to have to kill me,” and raised her scissors. Chandler then fired her gun, Navarre said.
Hicks, diagnosed with schizophrenia, depression and hypertension, lived in a group home at 1321 Fernwood Ave. and had not taken her medication that day, Navarre said, quoting caretaker Tanya Murphy.
I do often wonder how many times a police presence only serves to escalate a situation. Sometimes you do need to back off and let things calm down. I'd like to think that most officers know when to exercise good judgment, and that we just don't hear about them as often as we hear about the bad ones.
Your little sarcastic rant is BS. Police are not military, nor should they be. They are subject, or should be, to the same laws citizens are subject to. This was a 62 yo woman with sissors. One whack with the nightstick or one shot with a taser, would have solved the problem. She was shot 4 frickin' times.
Indeed, the cops in this incident were frickin' pussies and cowards, just as the cops that are forever shooting family dogs these days are cowards.
No dumb ass, you pull out your night stick and whack the hand she is holding the scissors in, this will cause her to drop the scissors. You don't pull your 9mm and shoot her 4 times.
I think you are probably right- that we only hear the bad endings. Maybe news shows and newspapers should once in a while show some good news...like “a potentially dangerous situation was diffused when...etc”
Once Again: NEVER Call the Police for “Help”
Posted by William Grigg on December 16, 2009 12:26 PM
Linda Hicks, a 62-year-old Toledo resident, was murdered by Officer Diane Chandler of the Toledo Police Department. “Murder” is the only suitable description for the entirely needless shooting death of Hicks, a group home resident who suffered from schizophrenia, depression, and hypertension.
Someone at the domicile made the fatal mistake of calling the police to report that Hicks had a “weapon” — a pair of sewing scissors.
When Chandler and Officer Rebecca Kenney arrived, Hicks was prone on her bed. When she refused to remove her arms from beneath a pillow, Chandler attempted to induce “pain compliance” by shooting the woman with her Taser, but the cartridge malfunctioned. Chandler then pressed the electro-shock torture device directly against Hicks’s skin to operate it in “drive-stun mode.”
Not surprisingly, this assault enraged Hicks, who reportedly got off the bed and said, “I’m going to kill you or you’re going to have to kill me.” Chandler then fired her gun at least four times, killing Hicks.
There are two elements of this story that deserve special attention. The first was the exculpatory comment by Chief of Police Michael Navarre that Chandler, like the rest of his force, is under a lot of stress because of recent lay-offs.
“It’s a difficult job out there,” Navarre told the Toledo Free Press. “Officers are being stretched to the limit.” The lay-offs supposedly have made criminals more “brazen,” he insists.
That assessment implicitly suggests that the stressed-out police are going to be more “brazen” in the use of lethal force.
More noteworthy still is the fact that Diane Chandler is “certified with crisis intervention training,” which should provide her with some means other than lethal force to handle a mentally ill senior citizen armed with sewing scissors.
“[Chandler] thought her life was in danger,” insisted Chief Navarre by way of justifying the shooting. Really?
Since Chandler could get close enough to Hicks to operate the Taser in “drive-stun mode,” couldn’t she and her partner have immobilized the woman long enough to take the scissors away? Weren’t there objects in the room — furniture, blankets, pillows — that could have been suitable to offer a shield against a pair of sewing scissors? Aren’t police given unarmed “combatives” training, and supposedly paid to take a few risks?
None of that matters, apparently. Linda Hicks is dead, Diane Chandler killed her, and within a few weeks we’ll all but certainly be told that Chandler’s actions were in accordance with “department policy.”
Once again: Unless you’re willing to see someone be severely injured or killed for no defensible reason, never call the police for “help.”
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/044934.html
“I’m assuming there was an attack and that’s what provoked the cops to retaliate.”
Yeah, “provoke” and “retaliate” are two good words to use to justify shooting a little old lady four times, twice in the head.
The taser malfunctioned (no backup) so she went to “contact” (stun gun) mode with it. Don’t back out of the room and close the door.
“Shoot the crazy lady!” should be a little farther down the list than “Plan B.”
I bet the group home won’t be so fast to call the cops next time.
“There’s obviously no reason for the ‘idiots with badges’ to be hyper-vigilant.”
Main Entry: hy·per·vig·i·lance
Function: noun
1. The condition of maintaining an abnormal awareness of environmental stimuli.
2. Shooting the elderly at least four times (center mass) should they ever raise there knitting needles to you.
3. The use of deadly force to prevent the staining of ones uniform or the scuffing of ones shoes during confrontations with unruly little citizen scumbags that dare question your authority in any way, shape, or form.
Let’s see:
1. I was being a bit sarcastic.
2. If you abuse your power you lose it. Thus, assigning lawyers to police so that they can be advised when it is both legal and reasonable to shoot may be the ultimate end game for abusive cops.
People, please...The cop will be found justified in shooting this woman. In the end that is all that matters. She met the definition of lethal force and he got a chance to shoot at a live target.
Miller Time!
This story has a strange odor to it...
“Officer Chandler and Officer Kenney both indicated Linda Hicks advanced toward Chandler with scissors in raised position.”
how about...exit...close the door...call for swat...or maybe K9...or just hold the door closed until she gets tired...
this is too ridiculous...shot 4 times? 62 year old woman in a “group home” confronted in bed with her hands under a pillow...gets up and moves toward officers with “sissors”
Granny sissorhands?
Que the music....terror...fills the room. Police revert to their training....draw weapons and fire 4 rounds....adrenalin and steroids? no excuse...sorry....not buying it.
To me, the story smells a little porcine.
How about some of you anti-cop whiners get off the keyboard and do a little research?
Start by Googling up the “Tueller Drill”. Dennis Tueller was a Salt Lake City cop who came up with the 21’ defense rule, which also applies to us civilians.
Does it seem that a lot of these stories involve female officers?
LOL! I can count on one hand the number of good female cops I worked with. I need about 20 hands to count the others.
A male cop that was weak, cowardly, incompetent, etc. was shunned and ostracized. It was generally expected that female officers would be useless if not worse, and the exception was an unexpected, pleasant surprise.
Narrow-minded dolts on this thread aren’t going to do any research. This woman was crazy. They claim it was a group home: 2 patients in a woman’s house. The dingbat was threatening to kill the people in the home and tried to stab a cop. Yes, she did attack the cops and they defended themselves from an insane, violent person with a weapon.
In some people’s mind, that’s OK, so long as the woman is eligible for Social Security.
I also noticed the stupid comments about what the cops should have done. These are usually the same fat slobs sitting at their computer 24\7 and have never had an actual violent encounter in their life.
As for research: I actually googled this story and found an article with details on this woman and what she did.
What’s next, cops should hug violent 14 year old gang bangers when they go after cops with weapons. Maybe some of these feel-good, peace weenies (who know it all about violence) can offer up some teddy bears to give to the misfit teenagers fighting for drugs and turf.
Pansies.
Lewrockwell is about as credible as newsmax or WND. Maybe worse. I’ve read their crap and actually thought it was a joke or something from Kos.
Example:
“Since Chandler could get close enough to Hicks to operate the Taser in “drive-stun mode,” couldn’t she and her partner have immobilized the woman long enough to take the scissors away? Weren’t there objects in the room — furniture, blankets, pillows — that could have been suitable to offer a shield against a pair of sewing scissors? Aren’t police given unarmed “combatives” training, and supposedly paid to take a few risks?”
I guess they missed the following that happened next:
“The officer shot the woman as she lunged at police with a pair of scissors raised over her head, ....”
Maybe some insane, violent person ought to go at the lewrockwell author with a sharpened weapon and see if he offers the attacker a pillow.
Are these people for real??
What’s worse is, do you actually take them seriously?
“Yeah, “provoke” and “retaliate” are two good words to use to justify shooting a little old lady four times, twice in the head.”
Not bad since all four shots were hits.
You didn’t read that she was violent and insane, did you?
You didn’t listen to the 911 call that came in where the nutcase was trying to kill people, did you?
She wasn’t just a “little old lady”, she was a bigger than me. 62 isn’t that old, my Grandma could have kicked her ass well in to her 80’s.
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