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E-mail furor doesn't alter evidence for climate change
Washington Post ^ | December 18, 2009 | Michael E. Mann

Posted on 12/18/2009 9:46:15 AM PST by neverdem

I cannot condone some things that colleagues of mine wrote or requested in the e-mails recently stolen from a climate research unit at a British university. But the messages do not undermine the scientific case that human-caused climate change is real.

The hacked e-mails have been mined for words and phrases that can be distorted to misrepresent what the scientists were discussing. In a Dec. 9 op-ed, former Alaska governor Sarah Palin argued that "The e-mails reveal that leading climate 'experts' . . . manipulated data to 'hide the decline' in global temperatures." Yet the e-mail she cites was written in 1999, just after the warmest year ever recorded (1998) to that date. It could not possibly have referred to the claim that global temperatures have declined over this decade -- a claim that is false (the current decade, as has been recently reported, will go down as the warmest on record).

In one case, professor Phil Jones of the University of East Anglia refers to a "trick" regarding temperature data that he attributes to an article that co-authors and I published in the journal Nature in 1998. We showed one up-to-date temperature data set from thermometer measurements along with a longer data set, based on calculations from natural "proxy" records such as ice cores, corals and tree rings, that ended in 1980. The "trick" (by which scientists generally mean a clever solution, i.e., a "trick of the trade") was that...

--snip--

The scientific consensus regarding human-caused climate change is based on decades of work by thousands of scientists around the world. The National Academy of Sciences has concluded that the scientific case is clear. As world leaders work in Copenhagen to try to combat this problem, some critics are seeking to cloud the debate and confuse the public.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: academicbias; climatechange; climategate; climategatedenier; cookedthebooks; criminalconspiracy; cultureofcorruption; echochamber; followthemoney; fraud; globalwarmingscare; grantfundbaby; greensocialism; hysteria; iamnotacrook; junkscience; mandatorybarfalert; marxism; mba; michaelmann; pravdamedia; pseudoscience; redistributewealth; savemyjob; youlie
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As world leaders work in Copenhagen to try to combat this problem, some critics are seeking to cloud the debate and confuse the public.

Like Michael E. Mann. I'll give him credit for being bold. He failed to mention his elimination of the Medieval Warmng Period and the Little Ice Age on his infamous "hockey stick" graph.

1 posted on 12/18/2009 9:46:17 AM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem

Hey, where is the BS alert?


2 posted on 12/18/2009 9:48:41 AM PST by stubernx98 (cranky, but reasonable)
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To: neverdem

Yeah! I believe him /s


3 posted on 12/18/2009 9:48:50 AM PST by Edgerunner (Second Amendment Spoken Here)
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To: neverdem
The hacked e-mails have been mined for words and phrases that can be distorted to misrepresent what the scientists were discussing. In a Dec. 9 op-ed, former Alaska governor Sarah Palin argued that "The e-mails reveal that leading climate 'experts' . . .

Notice how Michael Mann addresses himself to criticism made by a politician rather than criticisms made by his fellow scientists? If that doesn't show that the AGW Theory is a political movement first-and-foremost, I don't know what does.

4 posted on 12/18/2009 9:50:33 AM PST by Tallguy ("The sh- t's chess, it ain't checkers!" -- Alonzo (Denzel Washington) in "Training Day")
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To: neverdem
This decline was the focus of Briffa's original article, and Briffa was clear that these data should not be used to represent temperatures after 1960. By saying "hide the decline," Jones meant that a diagram he was producing was not to show those data during the unreliable post-1960 period.

Okie dokie. Your mother must have been the most gullible person in the world for you to think this explanation makes sense.

5 posted on 12/18/2009 9:50:48 AM PST by Raycpa
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To: neverdem

That makes as much sense as saying catching people leaving your driveway with burglar tools does not prove they broke into your house even though everything you own has just been stolen.


6 posted on 12/18/2009 9:50:56 AM PST by icwhatudo ("laws requiring compulsory abortion could be sustained under the existing Constitution"Obama Adviser)
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To: neverdem

“Mr. Mann, would you like another glass of this nice Kool-aid?”


7 posted on 12/18/2009 9:51:21 AM PST by La Lydia
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To: stubernx98
Hey, where is the BS alert?

None needed. He refers to "scientists," which is just another word for "charlatan."

8 posted on 12/18/2009 9:51:23 AM PST by Clint Williams (Read Roto-Reuters -- we're the spinmeisters | America -- a great idea, didn't last.)
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To: neverdem

Your mentally unstable and racist not to believe../s


9 posted on 12/18/2009 9:51:28 AM PST by Dallas59 (No To O -Time is going by really really really really slow.)
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To: neverdem
The "trick" (by which scientists generally mean a clever solution, i.e., a "trick of the trade") was that...

I guess that you need to be a professor (or a Democrat) to lie with a straight face. The so-called "trick" referred to in the email has been convincingly shown to have been intentional fraud, and not the innocuous little "trick of the trade" that Mann falsely claims.

I didn't read the article beyond the excerpt - does he go on to claim that "hide the decline" is just scientist-speak for "tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth"?

10 posted on 12/18/2009 9:51:57 AM PST by Zeppo ("Happy Pony is on - and I'm NOT missing Happy Pony")
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To: neverdem

Show me the raw data...oh wait!


11 posted on 12/18/2009 9:53:28 AM PST by Virginia Ridgerunner (Sarah Palin has crossed the Rubicon!)
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To: neverdem

[[But the messages do not undermine the scientific case that human-caused climate change is real.]]

Actually, yeah they do undermine the scientific case, however, the emails aren’t even the most damning evidence AGAINST the case that man is to blame- the code used in the computer models is the most damning- because it was fraudulent- the emails simply back up the FACT that htis whole cimate change fraud is just that- a premeditated fraud which ALL the scientyists involved in the scam KNEW full well and tried to hide

The writer of this article in Wapo is either stunningly ignorant, or just plain incompetent- tryign to continue his BS agenda i nthe face of such overwhelming evidnece AGAINST the claim that man is to blame- He shoudl be fired for journalistic incompetence


12 posted on 12/18/2009 9:54:51 AM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: neverdem

E-mail evidence doesn’t alter furor for climate change - fixed it.


13 posted on 12/18/2009 9:55:15 AM PST by Free_at_last_-2001 (A country can survive its fools, but it cannot survive treason from within.)
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To: neverdem

He’s right! The climate scientists altered the evidence!


14 posted on 12/18/2009 9:55:46 AM PST by FNU LNU (Nothing runs like a Deere, nothing smells like a john)
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To: neverdem
Yet the e-mail she cites was written in 1999, just after the warmest year ever recorded (1998) to that date.

Is that raw data? Or data which have been run through the program?

It could not possibly have referred to the claim that global temperatures have declined over this decade -- a claim that is false (the current decade, as has been recently reported, will go down as the warmest on record).

Release the raw data, show us how you massaged it to come to these consclusions, please.

Merely stating something doesn't make it fact.

15 posted on 12/18/2009 9:55:55 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: CottShop

Warming and cooling are a completely natural process, Michael. None of my money is required.


16 posted on 12/18/2009 9:56:18 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (Impeachment !)
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To: Smokin' Joe

Where is Dan Rather????


17 posted on 12/18/2009 9:57:00 AM PST by shankbear (Al-Qaeda grew while Monica blew)
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To: Zeppo
does he go on to claim that "hide the decline" is just scientist-speak for "tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth"?

His explanation is that it is shorthand for omitting facts which were not reliable. Doesn't say why they didn't want to explain why they were not reliable. Doesn't say why the email didn't use words like "I don't want to mislead anyone with unreliable data" or at the very least "hide the bad data".

For me the word "hide" in any context regarding scientific reporting raises the impression that something is not quite right.

18 posted on 12/18/2009 9:58:04 AM PST by Raycpa
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To: neverdem
"the e-mails recently stolen released by a whistle-blower, from a climate research fraud unit at a British university, before we could delete them to subvert a Freedom of Information demand."
19 posted on 12/18/2009 9:59:11 AM PST by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: stubernx98

It’s in the byline: “Michael E. Mann” = “100% Pure BS.”


20 posted on 12/18/2009 9:59:15 AM PST by piytar (Go Away RNC, Steele, Graham, and the rest of the lib-loser GOP. WE'RE TAKING OUR PARTY BACK!)
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To: neverdem

LOL.. hacked?
They were released with a FOIA request and then they went “Ooops”.


21 posted on 12/18/2009 9:59:32 AM PST by Darksheare (Tar is cheap, and feathers are plentiful.)
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Hoo boy, this writer needs to do some serious reading. He doesn’t even realize he should be embarrassed by what he wrote.


22 posted on 12/18/2009 9:59:33 AM PST by CanaGuy (Go Harper!)
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To: Zeppo

Michael Mann has been so discredited that I am amazed he is still on the faculty at Penn State. A University such as Penn State has much to lose by this scandal and once it totally breaks they will be scarred forever.

It is sad to see once respected institutions such as Harvard, Yale, Columbia and now Penn State be so discredited that their Alum become suspect.

Will we ever elect another President from another institution that so disdains the “common man”?


23 posted on 12/18/2009 9:59:47 AM PST by paguch
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To: neverdem; Timesink; martin_fierro; reformed_democrat; Loyalist; =Intervention=; PianoMan; GOPJ; ...
The scientific consensus regarding human-caused climate change is based on decades of work by thousands of scientists around the world.

There was once consensus that the sun went around the earth too.

Among the global climate change theorists, there was consensus that we were heading into a drought and into a new ice age. Both can't be right.

24 posted on 12/18/2009 10:00:29 AM PST by a fool in paradise (Question authority!Who is the University of East Anglia to drive the 'Global Climate Change' agenda?)
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To: Clint Williams
None needed. He refers to "scientists," which is just another word for "charlatan."

While the AGW set has been claiming "consensus" and some 4000 scientists, over 31,000 of us have signed the Petition Project request that our government NOT sign any Kyoto-like accords, because the "science" of Anthropogenic Global Warming has not been proven.

WE are referred to by the media as "deniers" while the AGW set are given laudatory honors.

Seems to me the real charlatans in the mix are in the Media, in the Government agencies, and universitites which are busily perpetrating fraud for increased political power, prestige, and a font of grant money.

25 posted on 12/18/2009 10:00:45 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: neverdem
"I cannot condone some things that colleagues of mine wrote or requested..."
That means sooo much, coming from the king of fraud himself!
26 posted on 12/18/2009 10:01:02 AM PST by astyanax (Liberalism: Logic's retarded cousin.)
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To: neverdem

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2389079/posts

These maniacs in Copenhagen are voting on your future:

President Chavez brought the house down.

When he said the process in Copenhagen was “not democratic, it is not inclusive, but isn’t that the reality of our world, the world is really and imperial dictatorship…down with imperial dictatorships” he got a rousing round of applause.

When he said there was a “silent and terrible ghost in the room” and that ghost was called capitalism, the applause was deafening.

But then he wound up to his grand conclusion – 20 minutes after his 5 minute speaking time was supposed to have ended and after quoting everyone from Karl Marx to Jesus Christ - “our revolution seeks to help all people…socialism, the other ghost that is probably wandering around this room, that’s the way to save the planet, capitalism is the road to hell....let’s fight against capitalism and make it obey us.” He won a standing ovation.


27 posted on 12/18/2009 10:01:02 AM PST by BenLurkin
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To: neverdem

To give credence to the excusive writings of someone who no longer deserves to be connected with the words ‘academic’ and ‘integrity’ would necessarily require that I think this piece of shit actually can tell the truth. Mr. Mann, Penn State University, and all of the other US universities, colleges and government agencies that colluded with him are likewise consituted.


28 posted on 12/18/2009 10:01:23 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: neverdem

This must be his “I am not a crook” speech. Fitting that it should run in the Washington Poo.


29 posted on 12/18/2009 10:01:59 AM PST by a fool in paradise (Question authority!Who is the University of East Anglia to drive the 'Global Climate Change' agenda?)
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To: neverdem

Mike Mann has become an evangelist for the church of global warming.


30 posted on 12/18/2009 10:02:08 AM PST by Ben Mugged (Unions are the storm troopers of socialism.)
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To: neverdem
But the messages do not undermine the scientific case that human-caused climate change is real.

Correct. The thing that undermines the scientific case that human-caused climate change global warming is real is the total and complete lack of evidence supporting it.

31 posted on 12/18/2009 10:02:57 AM PST by Hoodat (For the weapons of our warfare are mighty in God for pulling down strongholds.)
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To: neverdem
I cannot condone some things that colleagues of mine wrote or requested in the e-mails recently stolen from a climate research unit at a British university. But the messages do not undermine the scientific case that human-caused climate change is real.

Liar, liar, pants on fire!

Seriously if you have seen these creeps on TV and on the Internet, you can see small indications of panic setting in. I think they know that the whole fraud is about to collapse. Panic is about to set in. Many will called before Congress to testify. Some may even be charged. No the gig is up Mr. Mann. You are about to be exposed for the fraud you are.
32 posted on 12/18/2009 10:03:25 AM PST by truthguy (Good intentions are not enough!)
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To: Raycpa
For me the word "hide" in any context regarding scientific reporting raises the impression that something is not quite right

Exactly. Present the data, and then explain why it is being discarded or omitted from the study.

If the data are outliers, there may well be a scientific reason for those data, one which simplistic theory will not explain.

33 posted on 12/18/2009 10:05:54 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: neverdem

Mann puts his ignorance in writing. Goes to show you how these liberals are.


34 posted on 12/18/2009 10:07:25 AM PST by b4its2late (Before you can control a horse, you have to break it. Sound familiar?)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
Warming and cooling are a completely natural process, Michael. None of my money is required.

Nor will any of the taxpayer's money make even a small dent in changing global climate.

35 posted on 12/18/2009 10:08:11 AM PST by SoldierDad (Proud Dad of a U.S. Army Infantry Soldier whose wife is expecting twins SONS.)
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To: neverdem
The liars are trying to say the data is solid. Until they destroyed the original data and discredited the scientific peer review in the process. Sorry Mike - that horse has fled the barn!

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find only things evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelogus

36 posted on 12/18/2009 10:09:30 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: astyanax

“I cannot condone some things that colleagues of mine wrote or requested”

M E Mann. Living proof there can be someone more self-servingly arrogant than B Obama.

On the bright side, this arrogant attack on his colleagues might make them show their own knives.


37 posted on 12/18/2009 10:09:48 AM PST by Shermy
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To: shankbear
Where is Dan Rather????

In the same place all those go who have been caught lying to the public and are not elected Democrats.

38 posted on 12/18/2009 10:10:45 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: neverdem
"E-mail furor doesn't alter evidence for climate change"

Of course, considering the evidence was never there in the first place I agree.

39 posted on 12/18/2009 10:12:55 AM PST by montyspython ("I don't believe in 'no win' scenarios." - James T. Kirk)
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To: BenLurkin

Thanks for the link.


40 posted on 12/18/2009 10:14:34 AM PST by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: Smokin' Joe

Why does the guy in the orange jumpsuit always claim to be innocent?


41 posted on 12/18/2009 10:14:34 AM PST by DrNo ("Facts are stubborn things..." John Adams)
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To: Ben Mugged

Michael E. Mann

"Man behind the Hockey Stick"

referring to his reconstruction of temperatures, originally published in 1998.

My Opinion> He must be the originator of the Fraud of Global Warming.

42 posted on 12/18/2009 10:16:14 AM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.)
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To: shankbear
"Fake,but accurate"
43 posted on 12/18/2009 10:16:53 AM PST by shooter223 (the government should fear the citizens......not the other way around)
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To: CottShop
The writer of this article in Wapo is either stunningly ignorant, or just plain incompetent...

The writer of this "opinion" piece is one of the chief culprits who is complicit in pushing the great AGW hoax. He is intentionally lying in a desperate bid to cover his own rear end and prevent the whole house of cards from falling...

44 posted on 12/18/2009 10:17:22 AM PST by Zeppo ("Happy Pony is on - and I'm NOT missing Happy Pony")
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

[[Warming and cooling are a completely natural process, Michael. None of my money is required.]]

EXACTLY and I can’t for hte life of me understand why NOONE in political positions is standing up and makign htis statement and showing hte overwhelming evidnece that proves just what you said, that cooling and warmign are entirely natural- it’s so stinkin frustrating watchign this scam unfold and not seeing anyone in power and position do the right hting to protect our liberty, our constitutional rights, and to protect us against fraud by htose in power over us.

By all rights, an intellectually honest politician (is htere such a thing) shoudl bemaking a speech at copenhagen demanding that those criminals answer for their criminal statements, answer to their deceitful manipulation of hte evidences,, and showing hte world and all those nutjob world leaders who are hell-bent on extorting money from thel ittle people the evidnec3e that proves once and for all that man is NOT to blame, and htere is NO way man should be pouring money into this collosal fraud

Lord Monkton has tried, and Inhofe has attempted to, but we need a delegation to keep declaring loudly and publically that man is NOT to blame, and that we have the proof until the maisntream media can no logner ignore the group- NO WAY shoulds this copenhagen ‘summit’ have ev3n occured concidering the fact that htere is overwhelmign evidne e that we’re not to blame, and concidering the FACT that we all know that this summit is nothing but an attempt at massive wealth redistribution that has absolutely nothing to do with climate control.

Fox has attempted to get hte word out- but my gosh- concidering the scope and magnititude of htis fraud against ALL the little folks aroudn hte world, and the devestating effect that wealth redistribution will have o neveryone- they should be hammering home the fact that this is a fraud 24 hours a day and DEMANDING that congress answer to their fraudulent claims- the ONLY things these criminals understand is force apparently, and if they think they will lose money through lawsuits and poosible imprisonment for knowingly defrauding the citizens of htis nation, this whole issue might be a compeltely different one with many moderate democrats and the GOP runnign away from the claims like it’s radioactive-

the silence of the GOP, and hte realtively small amount of reporting is enabling hte left to force through their fraud without any serious opposition


45 posted on 12/18/2009 10:17:48 AM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: neverdem
He's right, though. the e-mails don't ‘alter’ the evidence. they show that there never was any evidence to begin with.

It was made -up like a Hans Christian Andersen fairy tale, except with malice.

46 posted on 12/18/2009 10:20:33 AM PST by chesley (Lib arguments are neither factual, logical, rational, nor reasonable. They are, however, creative.)
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To: stubernx98

No BS alert needed when the author is shown to be Michael E. Mann.


47 posted on 12/18/2009 10:30:12 AM PST by Presbyterian Reporter
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To: neverdem
Some of the comments on the article are a hoot;
"Look at it this way, you have 100,000 people at a conference in Denmark, and they can't even agree on how to pronounce "Copenhagen/haagen/heegan/hogan/hugen.""

- Traveler

48 posted on 12/18/2009 10:32:28 AM PST by Traveler59 (Truth is a journey, not a destination.)
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To: neverdem
Mr. Mann, it's really simple to explain what you and your lying cronies have done. You slightly lowered historical temps and slightly raised more recent ones. Whala...AGW. Ain't buying your BS, Pal. Enjoy your freedom and your bank balance while you still have them.
49 posted on 12/18/2009 10:35:33 AM PST by JPG (Al Gore, the several million degree man.)
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To: neverdem

You can’t alter what doesn’t exist.


50 posted on 12/18/2009 10:37:41 AM PST by Disambiguator
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