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Neo-Nazis suspected of raid on Auschwitz ‘to rewrite history’
Times Online ^ | December 19, 2009

Posted on 12/18/2009 9:45:07 PM PST by myknowledge

The slickly organised theft of one of the most potent symbols of the Holocaust sent a wave of outrage around the world yesterday.

The sign that hung over the gates of Auschwitz extermination camp, where more than a million people died during the Second World War, was stolen in minutes. Polish police suspect that the culprits were either neo-Nazis or acting on behalf of collectors or a group of individuals.

The slogan wrought in iron, Arbeit Macht Frei (“Work sets you free”), was the cynical welcome to those entering the camp in the 1940s. One million of the 1.1 million people who died at Auschwitz were Jewish.

The theft in the early hours of yesterday was seen as an attempt by right-wing extremists to muddy the narrative of the Holocaust.

(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: arbeitmachtfrei; auschwitz; holocaustdenial; neonazis; paulduke2012; ronpaul

What's with these right-wing left wing neo-Nazis denying the Holocaust? Stealing the 'Arbeit Macht Frei' sign is worse enough.

1 posted on 12/18/2009 9:45:09 PM PST by myknowledge
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To: myknowledge

To walk up and do something like this...which would take a bit of effort....you’d really have to know the operation there. I don’t think it was the Nazis. I suspect it was disenchanted staff members taking out frustrations on the management.

Face it...what do you with a sign like this? You can’t show to anyone or the word gets out with the cops finding out. The logic of some Nazis stealing it for “show”...I find issues with.


2 posted on 12/18/2009 9:49:58 PM PST by pepsionice
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To: myknowledge

Who else would want this but neo-Nazi types? An unfortunate incident that removes a valuable piece of history.


3 posted on 12/18/2009 9:53:01 PM PST by americanophile (Merry Christmas!)
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To: myknowledge

“The theft in the early hours of yesterday was seen as an attempt by right-wing extremists to muddy the narrative of the Holocaust.”

That makes perfect sense. After all, if you can steal the object in question you automatically re-write history. E.g., if Southern Nationalists somehow stole the Lincoln Memorial, then Southerners would have more ammo in their attempt to convince people that we won the war. Brilliant.

This entire piece reads like some Orwellian satire piece.

If someone really wanted to “muddy” the narrative of the Holocaust they would have stolen the fake unattached chimney that is part of the late 1940’s Soviet reconstruction at Auschwitz.


4 posted on 12/18/2009 10:04:48 PM PST by Spike Knotts
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To: Spike Knotts

“The theft in the early hours of yesterday was seen as an attempt by right-wing extremists to muddy the narrative of the Holocaust.”

By the way, would Ahmadinejad be one of the “right-wing” extremists trying to muddy the Holocaust? Who knew.

Amazing that there is one country in the World that officially questions the Holocaust...one religion in the World that openly questions it...but there is no discussion here of Muslims/Iranians being responsible. They automatically know it was “right-wingers.”


5 posted on 12/18/2009 10:09:55 PM PST by Spike Knotts
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To: pepsionice

To a hardcore history buff—a sick one without a conscience—it would be worth big, big money.


6 posted on 12/18/2009 10:47:47 PM PST by Trod Upon (Obama: Making the Carter malaise look good. Misery Index in 3...2...1)
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To: Trod Upon

“To a hardcore history buff—a sick one without a conscience—it would be worth big, big money.”

It would be a tad bit conspicuous don’t you think?


7 posted on 12/19/2009 4:35:07 AM PST by dljordan (Psalm 109:8 "Let his days be few; and let another take his office. ")
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To: myknowledge
Sure. go ahead. Blame 'neo-nazis.

But that sign, 'Work Sets You Free' is the mantra of Marxists. So I'd be looking under the other 'wing' for the culprits.

8 posted on 12/19/2009 4:38:42 AM PST by Condor51 (The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: Morgana
What's it made out of?

Is poverty so bad that someone might try to melt it down and sell it?

Some articles say it is bronze, others state it is cast iron, I was curious if there was much copper content to it.

10 posted on 12/19/2009 4:54:39 AM PST by hennie pennie
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To: myknowledge

so just put up a replica.

if they don’t do that, then this was an inside job.


11 posted on 12/19/2009 5:21:18 AM PST by chuck_the_tv_out ( <<< click my name: now featuring Freeper classifieds)
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To: hennie pennie

SURELY they did not steal it, to sell as SCRAP! Auschwitz is not DETROIT, after all! LOL.


12 posted on 12/19/2009 6:29:46 AM PST by 2harddrive
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To: myknowledge
neo-Nazis denying the Holocaust

Basically, even though they don't believe it happened, they wish it did and they would like to make a new one. Clear enough?

13 posted on 12/19/2009 6:31:18 AM PST by Heliand
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To: 2harddrive
Well, poverty is poverty. Perhaps some undereducated unemployed hungry people who live nearby do not recognize the significance of that sign?

It is so hard to imagine someone stealing it to sell to collectors of Nazi memorabilia.....

14 posted on 12/19/2009 7:14:34 AM PST by hennie pennie
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To: 2harddrive

>>SURELY they did not steal it, to sell as SCRAP!

Whoever stole it could make a fortune selling small pieces of it.


15 posted on 12/19/2009 7:21:41 AM PST by Bryanw92 (Imagine a day when the politicians have to hold a bake sale to pay for votes!)
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: Morgana; muawiyah; blam
Thank you, Morgana -- it's just sick, does collecting of this type of object perhaps have something to do with that weird Compulsive Hoarding Disorder?

I mean, for SICK.

17 posted on 12/19/2009 8:29:28 AM PST by hennie pennie
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To: myknowledge
The theft in the early hours of yesterday was seen as an attempt by right-wing extremists to muddy the narrative of the Holocaust.

The Nazis were left-wing extremists.

After 60 years, you'd think all those big-brained certified journalists might get that correct.

Unless... gasp... they're deliberately switching the terms!

Nah...

18 posted on 12/19/2009 10:50:30 AM PST by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
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To: dljordan

Not in a private vault. Moving it would have been the issue, but money makes all things possible.


19 posted on 12/19/2009 11:47:29 AM PST by Trod Upon (Obama: Making the Carter malaise look good. Misery Index in 3...2...1)
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To: Talisker

The Nazis were left-wing extremists.


well not in europe.
for europe right wing extremists is the correct term.
you can´t compare europe to the US in terms of what is viewed as extreme right or left wing. It´s a totally different political system.
So every american may be correct to state nazis as left wing extremist (from your point of view) but so is every european telling you that they have been right wing extremists.


20 posted on 12/19/2009 11:54:45 AM PST by darkside321
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To: Talisker

let me explain this. in america any form of “socialism” is viewed as left wing. In europe it has nothing to do with beeing left or right because all parties practise some form of socialism... some more some less but this has nothing to do if they are left or right.


21 posted on 12/19/2009 12:06:35 PM PST by darkside321
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To: darkside321
you can´t compare europe to the US in terms of what is viewed as extreme right or left wing. It´s a totally different political system.

You are incorrect. Collectivism is left-wing everywhere. This isn't a matter of cultural interpretation - it's a matter of describing political structure and function. There are varying levels of left-wing activities in Europe, and none of those countries put the person over the government in true freedom, as does the American Constitution. But Nazism has never been right-wing - that's merely leftist propaganda. Nazi literally means "national socialist" - there isn't anything right-wing about that. Leftists merely want to distance themselves from Nazi butchery, so they lie to everyone's face about what the Nazis plainly stated they were.

22 posted on 12/19/2009 12:10:38 PM PST by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
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To: Talisker

sorry but you are wrong. again you view this from an american point of view. and this just doesn´t fit into any european political system. for example in europe the far left you go the more the people will be against any form of government. the far far left can be considered as anarchist. they hate any form of state, police, rules, laws in any form... they are pro drugs, pro uncontrolled immigration (because if we like them they will like us too) against all kind of industry, cars (made by the devil)...
against any form of military, police, faith, work, tax (only paid by idiots) money... in general just against everything what a state (no matter if left or right could represent). i could go on and on. so the left in europe does indeed put every person above the government simple because they just hate any form of government.


23 posted on 12/19/2009 12:39:40 PM PST by darkside321
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To: darkside321; Talisker

Leftism is by definition statism.

What you describe is anarchism, and anarchism is by definition the far right.


24 posted on 12/19/2009 12:48:18 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: editor-surveyor

yeah i know that i describe “anarchism”
and this is the perfekt example of the ideology of the far left wing in europe. this is exactly why i said you can´t complain the US to Europe. this means extreme left wing in europe for everyone. not because out of fantasie but just because this is what they exactly want to represent here.


25 posted on 12/19/2009 12:53:37 PM PST by darkside321
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To: editor-surveyor

the only thing both groups have in common is that they hate the state of israel. (of course out of different reasons but the result is the same). both hate Israel. (not jews in generall but definitely this state)


26 posted on 12/19/2009 1:03:00 PM PST by darkside321
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To: darkside321

True, to their own diminishment!


27 posted on 12/19/2009 1:06:45 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: darkside321

the left wing hates Israel because they think they oppress those “peace loving” palestinians. the right hates Israel beacuse they think that this country plays the holocaust card every time an there for should just shut up. so Israel is the enemy in most of europe no matter what they do. they can live forever (if they shut up) or just die... anyway most people would not care.


28 posted on 12/19/2009 1:10:06 PM PST by darkside321
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To: editor-surveyor; darkside321
As editor-surveyor said, Leftism is by definition statism. Nazism is highly structured statism, thus left-wing. It is not anarchism. European skinhead neo-Nazis who are anarchists are either: 1) confused jerks who just want to trash things; or 2) Nazis pursuing random destruction as a precurser to pushing for Nazism as a cure for the anarchy.

As for anarchy being right-wing, corporate fascism has also been described as right wing. It depends on who you ask. But leftist collectivists have long tried to escape being clearly defined, and so they set up the whole "wing" paradigm to try and position themselves as merely one direction away from a center. But this isn't truly descriptive - it's a triangulation gambit to create a less intense (RINO) "right wing" from which they can create a leftist "center" that people will agree to, without realizing that in doing so they are still agreeing to a certain level of collectivist domination.

These dynamics don't change - they are the same in Europe, except Europe lacks the bottom-line definition of non-collectivist freedom that Americans can invoke. So while everything in Europe is varying degrees of leftism (since all the European governments are varying degrees of socialism), it doesn't change the relationships between the greater or lesser amounts of statist control levels.

And btw, Europe indulges itself in considering "anarchists" as a political ideology, which it is not. Anarchy is a tactic - not political ideology, because it cannot ever maintain society - by definition - even amongst the anarchists (who are actually merely left-wing instigators creating havoc for which left-wing "solutions" are then offered).

But "pure" anarchy is the destruction of all order. Regarding it as a valid political philosophy is just a rational as letting arsonists be accorded a valid approach to fire prevention - it's an oxymoron.

29 posted on 12/19/2009 1:16:49 PM PST by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
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To: Talisker

well first “europe” has this anarchist vote” they usually rank between 5-10% of the voters (there for more or less irrelevant). i agree to one point most of european skinheads are just uneducated “white trash” who just don´t have the basic intelligence to “judge” on their own (between 0,1 and 1% of the general population). but “leftist” don´t vote for fashism. they hate it!
again this is europe. extreme right wing means you are very close to fashism. has nothing to do with the rest. it youst means i hate all those immigrants and don´t want them here. which 90% of the people would agree to you. but for the left wing it´s racist, Nazi... because you know we love all of you even you want to kill us. but then again there is no way to “judge” american left-right wing to europe. the people may feel the same but the result will be different.


30 posted on 12/19/2009 1:41:28 PM PST by darkside321
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To: darkside321

let me add just one thing about israel. “we” don´t care about them they are just a forreign country located on the other side of the world like every one else. if america does. nice for them but Israel is as much important to europe like north korea is. finally we just don´t care. just a forreign country “we” share nothing about. so who cares what they do?


31 posted on 12/19/2009 1:52:48 PM PST by darkside321
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To: americanophile

Who else?

0bama, Achmedinejad, Prince Charles, or the Saudi King


32 posted on 12/19/2009 2:10:47 PM PST by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah."Our middle regiment, Gloria Patri, Filio et Spirito Sancto.)
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To: Talisker
Look at post #1 comment.

I crossed out right-wing.

33 posted on 12/19/2009 3:32:56 PM PST by myknowledge (F-22 Raptor: World's Largest Distributor of Sukhoi parts!)
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To: Talisker; darkside321
"As for anarchy being right-wing, corporate fascism has also been described as right wing."

That is media hocus-pocus. Facism means "controlled," 'Faces' are the staves of an iron fence, thus facism is deeply leftist.

34 posted on 12/19/2009 5:05:49 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: Talisker

Some Nazis were indeed left-wing and Socialist. Goebbels was very left wing, and most of the SA were leftists, most started out as Communist street brawlers.

Which was one of the reasons Hitler had to do away with them to gain the trust of the German business class, who was more scared of Bolshevism, than anything. Hitler was much more pragmatic than most in the Nazi Party. But the original name of the Nazi Party was the “German Workers’ Party”


35 posted on 12/19/2009 5:11:25 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: Bryanw92

I used to have a slave-driving, penny-pinching boss would would probably LUV a sign like that! LOL.


36 posted on 12/20/2009 6:24:42 AM PST by 2harddrive
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To: 2harddrive

I worked for that guy! We put a sign over our shop that said “Works Makes You Free” (in English). He saw it and was so impressed that we had “finally gotten with the program”. It stayed there for 2 weeks before some other manager who was more historically savvy pointed out what it really meant and he made us take it down.


37 posted on 12/20/2009 6:30:25 AM PST by Bryanw92 (Imagine a day when the politicians have to hold a bake sale to pay for votes!)
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To: editor-surveyor
That is media hocus-pocus.

Frankly, I find all the "isms" hocus-pocus. To me, there is the personal sovereignty acknowledged as pre-existing in human beings by the American Constitution, and everything else.

And what a coincidence - everything else is one or another form of collectivist control. Whether by government, corporations, or their bastard offspring, it's all slavery of one kind or another, by which an elite class enslaves everyone else.

That's the reality the elites live by, while they laugh at their slaves arguing over the differences in the mechanisms of their slavery.

38 posted on 12/20/2009 11:41:42 AM PST by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
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To: dfwgator
But the original name of the Nazi Party was the “German Workers’ Party”

Actually, no - NAZI stands for "National Socialist German Workers Party" in German (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei) - so why deliberately exclude the crucial "National Socialist" part that was always there?

As well, the association between socialism and the "workers" has been consistent worldwide, so that hardly breaks the Nazi concept away from socialism.

Leftists have labored long and hard to deny the link between socialism and Nazism, an astounding effort at all, given that Nazism IS socialism in it's truest form.

I for one think that link needs to remain as clear as possible.

39 posted on 12/20/2009 1:57:41 PM PST by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
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To: Talisker

The original name was the “German Workers Party” in 1919, they added the “National Socialist” afterwards.


40 posted on 12/20/2009 2:00:27 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator
The original name was the “German Workers Party” in 1919, they added the “National Socialist” afterwards.

I didn't know that, but it doesn't seem to matter concerning the connection of Nazism with socialism, unless the 1919 name somehow represented a non- a socialist party - which I'm sure it didn't.

Auschwitz had a sign that said "Work Makes You Free" - so what?

41 posted on 12/20/2009 2:27:15 PM PST by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
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To: Talisker
"To me, there is the personal sovereignty acknowledged as pre-existing in human beings by the American Constitution..."

And that is what we have allowed to be renamed 'capitalism' but its really just freedom.

42 posted on 12/20/2009 2:54:11 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: editor-surveyor
And that is what we have allowed to be renamed 'capitalism' but its really just freedom.

Indeed - that is truly the root of vast disinformation by the enemy.

43 posted on 12/21/2009 9:23:33 PM PST by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
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