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Assisted suicide: disabled should not be allowed legally to kill themselves
UK Telegraph ^ | 12/17/09 | Christopher Hope

Posted on 12/19/2009 10:59:35 AM PST by wagglebee

In a submission to a consultation on relaxing the rules on assisted suicide - which ends today - a coaliton of five disabled groups, said that “to see suicide as the right solution is to abandon hope. Severely ill and terminally ill people do no deserve society to give up on them.”

The group, which is lead by Baroness Campbell, accused others who were pushing for the change as “seeking to change the law by the back door by creating the impression that those who assist in a suicide will be immune from prosecution”.

Over the past 10 years 100 Britons have travelled to the Dignitas clinic in Switerland to commit suicide. Eight of them were referred for consideration for a prosecution by the DPP.

In one of the cases, Daniel James, who killed himself after becoming paralysed after a rugby accident, Mr Starmer decided that it would be wrong to prosecute his mother who had been punished enough by the experience.

The group, which include the Royal Association for Disabled People, the UK Disabled People’s Council and the National Centre for Disabled Living, said it was clear that she had done “everything in her power to stop him seeking assisted suicide."

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: assistedsuicide; disabilities; euthanasia; moralabsolutes; prolife
They added: “To many people Daniel James’ desire to end his life, whilst wholly undesirable and deeply regrettable for no other reason than that he was a disabled person. The 'understanding’ of a disabled or terminally ill person’s wish to die is deeply demeaning.”

Perfectly stated.

1 posted on 12/19/2009 10:59:36 AM PST by wagglebee
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To: cgk; Coleus; cpforlife.org; narses; Salvation; 8mmMauser

Pro-Life Ping


2 posted on 12/19/2009 11:00:39 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: 185JHP; 230FMJ; 69ConvertibleFirebird; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee or DirtyHarryY2K to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

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[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


3 posted on 12/19/2009 11:01:11 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

We kill the elderly in this country all the time. People that are expected to live less than 6 months are sent to hospices. The government will fund their stay for 6 months and when the funds run out care is withdrawn and heroin injections begin to numb them until death.

Dr. Blaylock writes a lot on this as well as excitotoxins like aspartame and MSG. This is his website= http://www.russellblaylockmd.com/


4 posted on 12/19/2009 11:06:12 AM PST by poodle
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To: wagglebee

sorry to say but this “movement” is absolutely useless. because how do you prevent someone traveling to a foreign country where assisted suicide is legal? as far as i know it´s still illegal in britain but this will not stop someone to travel to a country where its legal. there is no way to stop this because i guess it´s difficult to punish someone for suicide after he/she commited it.


5 posted on 12/19/2009 11:09:56 AM PST by darkside321
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To: darkside321

“sorry to say but this “movement” is absolutely useless. because how do you prevent someone traveling to a foreign country where assisted suicide is legal?”

That’s easy. You make it a crime, punishable by the death penalty.


6 posted on 12/19/2009 11:11:58 AM PST by trumandogz (The Democrats are driving us to Socialism at 100 MPH -The GOP is driving us to Socialism at 97.5 MPH)
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To: wagglebee

People have the right to take their own lives depsite how much others want them to not do so. There is a difference between what we belive is moral or correct and the decision someone else has the right to make.


7 posted on 12/19/2009 11:12:34 AM PST by votemout
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To: wagglebee

It is simply appalling that these social manipulators can twist murder into *assisted suicide* and deny murder by calling abortion; a *woman’s choice*.


8 posted on 12/19/2009 11:13:00 AM PST by sodpoodle (Stop wasting our wealth and start telling the truth.)
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To: votemout
There is a difference between what we belive is moral or correct and the decision someone else has the right to make.

What you have expressed is textbook moral relativism. Why would you not try to dissuade someone from doing what you know to be morally wrong?

9 posted on 12/19/2009 11:15:04 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: trumandogz

That’s easy. You make it a crime, punishable by the death penalty.


and how do you enforce this law? you could make it a crime in england for example (as far as i know it´s still a crime in england) but why should this stop anyone in a foreign country where it´s legal to help someone to commit suicide?


10 posted on 12/19/2009 11:15:59 AM PST by darkside321
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To: sodpoodle

The left has a long history of applying acceptable words to justify the unacceptable.


11 posted on 12/19/2009 11:16:08 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
If you reread my statement I am not making a moral determination. In fact, we have similar beliefs on what is moral.

I am making a legal and rights argument. We may agree that someone's exercise of their rights is immoral, that does not diminish their right to make the decision.

12 posted on 12/19/2009 11:17:52 AM PST by votemout
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To: wagglebee

PS: I never said I would dissuade or not try to dissuade anyone from killing themselves. I said they have a right to do so.


13 posted on 12/19/2009 11:18:58 AM PST by votemout
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To: trumandogz

btw i hope that i understood you correct and you havn´t been just sarcastic ;-)


14 posted on 12/19/2009 11:21:40 AM PST by darkside321
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To: votemout
I am making a legal and rights argument. We may agree that someone's exercise of their rights is immoral, that does not diminish their right to make the decision.

No, the fact that someone has a legal right to do something DOES NOT negate my moral obligation to try to prevent them from what I know is morally wrong.

15 posted on 12/19/2009 11:23:22 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

If you heard I was going to kill myself you would use physical force to prevent me from doing so? Forget what you think about me. LOL!


16 posted on 12/19/2009 11:24:42 AM PST by votemout
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To: wagglebee

“assisted suicide” takes me back to the Vince Foster days. Nowadays though it is aspirin overdoses in Chicago.


17 posted on 12/19/2009 11:28:17 AM PST by isom35
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To: votemout

well depends on the situation. if you hold a gun in your hand hysterical screaming that life just sucks and we would be all better of if we would be just dead... then NO ;-)
if you want to jump from a bridge next to me then yes.


18 posted on 12/19/2009 11:30:33 AM PST by darkside321
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To: votemout; wagglebee

There is a sleight of hand in this. If you’ve decided to kill yourself, you don’t need a law to make it legal, because you can’t be prosecuted once you’ve done it, and even if you fail no one is going to prosecute you.

The law isn’t to make it legal to commit suicide. Its to make it legal to kill people and call it suicide.

Big difference, and its coming.


19 posted on 12/19/2009 11:31:32 AM PST by marron
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To: marron

Excellent post!


20 posted on 12/19/2009 11:32:31 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

btt


21 posted on 12/19/2009 11:34:32 AM PST by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: votemout

This isn’t about a person taking their own life; it’s about those who assist a person in doing so. Therein comes the moral prohibition.


22 posted on 12/19/2009 11:36:35 AM PST by FourPeas (Why does Professor Presbury's wolfhound, Roy, endeavour to bite him?)
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To: votemout

Yes, provided it doesn’t put anyone else’s life in danger.


23 posted on 12/19/2009 11:38:43 AM PST by FourPeas (Why does Professor Presbury's wolfhound, Roy, endeavour to bite him?)
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To: marron; wagglebee
My aunt was a Christian woman her entire life. Worked at her church and went to people's house weekly for 35-40 years to help them and their children. In the end she was in a lot of pain. The last time I saw her she cried most of the time about her pain. In the end my cousin told me that the doctor let her self-medicate and she died the next day, probably from an overdose.

At first she said that God gave her trials to suffer through. In the end she could no longer bear the pain.

Neither I nor my cousins have any interest in calling the police about this. I will not judge either of them because I know my aunt's heart and I believe that God is merciful. Let God judge her for her life and death and let no one judge her for her death.

24 posted on 12/19/2009 11:40:05 AM PST by votemout
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To: FourPeas

I responded to the comments not the threads specific subject. See my comment about my aunt and tell me the doctor should go to prison.


25 posted on 12/19/2009 11:41:56 AM PST by votemout
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To: marron

and even if you fail no one is going to prosecute you.


is it really this differnet in the US? because here if you fail you will wake up in a mental hospital. of course they will release you as soon as you are “clear” enought to even lie to them that you won´t do it again but anyway...


26 posted on 12/19/2009 11:43:33 AM PST by darkside321
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To: votemout
If the doctor knew or in any way encouraged your aunt, then yes he should be prosecuted.

Pain is awful. I had a time in my life where there was literally nothing else in the world except pain. I couldn't carry a conversation, talk or even think about anything except the pain. Refocus technniques had little effect. Pain was all that existed. I can understand completely wanting to end pain. That said, it's not my place to judge your aunt.

My mother-in-law was in a hospice for months, knowing that any moment might be her last. She was in intense pain. She couldn't keep food or water down. She was surrounded by dying and mourning people. She was 1000+ miles from all her family except her 75 year-old diabetic husband who was barely able to live by himself. When she somewhat stabilized, she was moved closer to her family and another doctor determined that the diagnosis that put her in hospice was completely inaccurate. After appropriate medical care, she lived another 17 years.

I used to believe that assisted suicide was a reasonable option. I no longer do.

27 posted on 12/19/2009 11:59:34 AM PST by FourPeas (Why does Professor Presbury's wolfhound, Roy, endeavour to bite him?)
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To: FourPeas
I disagree. Her children didn't have the strength even though she was begging and praying for relief. I believe many doctors would have done the same thing and I have confidence it was her will.

I'm sorry now for coming to the thread. I can't talk about this any more for now. I don't know why people have to judge others when God will do it at the end.

28 posted on 12/19/2009 12:05:25 PM PST by votemout
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To: wagglebee

What should the sentence be for violating this law?


29 posted on 12/19/2009 12:12:42 PM PST by Brilliant
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To: votemout; wagglebee

What you describe is generally the way things work out. If there is hope for your recovery, they are careful not to overmedicate you or get you hooked. Once they’ve decided you probably aren’t coming back, they generally let you have all the pain meds you want.

There is nothing explicit though. These things are worked out between patient and doctor and family according to their consciences and their understanding of what is possible and what is not, when it is time to fight and when it is time to let nature take its course.

You don’t want the law to intrude in this area, not even to make it explicitly legal. The end of life is something we will all face, and knowing when and how to fight and when and how to let go is something we’ll all have to work out when the time comes.

You don’t want explicit law involved. You’ll wind up with a soylent green horrorshow such as in Holland, where the doctors off you without asking. I know there is supposed to be an “ethical” procedure, but the reality is that the doctor makes the decision and slips you the cocktail without asking you or your family. I’m already seeing vestiges of the vaunted “death panel” in the way things happen even here in the US. They are looking for legal cover especially as the cost-benefit analysis becomes more explicit.

I don’t want to give anyone legal cover, because the consequences are frightening. People have managed to die for thousands of years without suicide legislation. I’ve watched a number of relatives die lately, and I’ve noticed how the dance works itself out. Keep the law out of it except as needed to defend life. Death takes care of itself.


30 posted on 12/19/2009 12:15:54 PM PST by marron
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To: wagglebee

I am an Iraqi vet. 100% disabled from combat and recently received obamas death panal instructions from the VA. How absolutely disgusting. God Help our Republic!!


31 posted on 12/19/2009 1:31:16 PM PST by jesseam (Been there, done that)
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To: jesseam

God Bless you and thank you for your service and sacrifice.


32 posted on 12/19/2009 1:36:52 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

I am all for full prosecution of anyone committing suicide.


33 posted on 12/19/2009 2:00:24 PM PST by Rebelbase
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To: trumandogz

Your solution in preventing suicide by making a law punishing the person with death has got to be either tongue in cheek or idiotic. By punishing the person with death, u r granting the very wish of the suicidal person. This so-called solution is laughable indeed.


34 posted on 12/25/2009 7:36:51 AM PST by slowhandfan
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