Skip to comments.I must have been asleep in Government Class....so a question.........
Posted on 12/19/2009 3:57:53 PM PST by pj1070
Is there some reason that a Republican Senator cannot walk in and fillibuster ala Mr. Smith?????? If this timeline is so important why not disturb it?
I think debate can be shut off with 60 votes, which they now have thanks to the Nebraska whore.
That is what they are doing by “reading” everything.
The days of the old “talk until you drop” filibuster are gone. It would take too much energy for these fat b-tards to stand and talk that long. And if there are sixty votes in the pocket, they can call to close debate at any time.
If it were only true, and Mr. Smith really was in DC. And not Bob Smith. Please stay away Bob.
Last I heard, Bob Smith was selling real estate in Florida. NH Freepers may want to correct or verify me on that.
Because they are in on the corruption, at least most of them.
The Senate rules were changed. A “filibuster” is no longer done. If the pubbies had more than 40 votes, it would be a de facto filibuster, and that would have ended it. I think the rules changed during the “leadership” of Trent “the spineless jellyfish” Lott.
You are correct, sir. The senate makes their own rules. Never mind the constitution.
How do the millions of Americans that resent their freedom being stolen express their anger? How do the American people express their anger about the political hacks that have stolen our government? How do the American people express their rage about the members of this Congress who have become dictators? How does the American people express their rage at the in-your-face arrogance of members of Congress who betray our heritage and spit on our Constitution? Personally, I can’t find words reprehensible enough.
HEADS UP EVERYONE..SEEMS LIKE OL HARRY IS PLANNING ON A “CHRISTMAS GIFT” SOME WON’T LIKE..AND THE SNEAKY WAY HE IS GOING ABOUT THIS IS DISGUSTING.
If I were to bribe the Nebraska whore with an amount equal to what Reid gave him to secure his vote on a bill, I would go to jail! What's worse is Reid is using taxpayer dollars to fund his bribe. One would think that an enterprising conservative law maker would call for an investigation into this bribery? Landrieu gets $300 million for her vote and Nelson gets paid off too?
.. besides, the vast majority of the Republicans, especially the leadership, have no testes. They’re just trying to find out how to personally benefit from it (behind closed doors).
The Constitution is exactly what gives the Senate the power to establish its own rules. Article I, section 5.
I'm looking for a bill to legalize prostitution soon since they are so good at it right out in the open why not make it legal.
How I wish Congress would keep to the Constitutional minimum of Article 2 Sec 4 Par 2.
Yes. Politicians have mastered the art of deception.
And we are paying for it! In more ways than the obvious.
The following is what I sent them today....my reps and the leadership.
“I certainly hope the Republicans can postpone any form of ObamaCare with whatever it takes. The American people are watching this issue very closely. There is talk of forming a third party. This would be disasterous. Please encourage the GOP to fight hard, very hard, to prevent this bill from passing....the Senate and the House. Government spending cost us Congress, not to mention illegal immigration (this has not been forgotten). The GOP must gain our trust again.”
Your comment is an embarrassment to FR:
Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, ... [Art I, Sec 5, Clause 2]ML/NJ
That’s the last I heard, too. He even ran for Senate there but never really seemed to get any traction. He was a good felloer until he went off the deep end.
We have had to resort to treating the GOP like teenagers on crack. We hold back the crack(contributions) and donate only to conservative candidates until the tremors cease.
Fortunately most of us have learned that third parties almost invariably guarantee rat wins and we sure as hell don't need any more of that.
That will bring immigration up next and they will go all out to legalize anyone and everyone and then shoot for open borders.
Our best argument on that will be to show what the true numbers of illegals really are,how they will help further destroy the country, since they are about double what everyone keeps saying they are.
On what do you base this assertion? Have you gone around personally and counted?
Filibusters only work when the minority has at least 40 votes. You need 60 votes to kill a filibuster. The Democrats have 60 votes. That’s why everyone is making such a big deal about the fact that Sen. Judas Nelson is now voting for the bill.
“Last I heard, Bob Smith was selling real estate in Florida.”
I’m in Florida, and I can verify that NO ONE is selling real estate in Florida.
Regarding the “Nebraska whore” - how can Harry pay him off with a Medicaid bribe (the feds covering the whole tab instead of splitting with the individual state)? Why wouldn’t the other Dem governors line up and demand equal protection under the law? Hence this is all a ruse, or Nelson is too dumb to know that. Anyone who goes along with this bill has no respect or caring for anyone’s life, unborn or otherwise. Dance, says the Puppetmaster, and dance they do.
If you will take the time to read Illegal Aliens:Counting the Uncountable by James H. Walsh who is an immigration expert, former Federal prosecutor, U. S. German Marshall Fund scholar, you will discover as he has through extensive research that in 2005 there were 36 million illegals and 2 million visa overstays for a total of 38 million.
His research uses on site interviews with border guards and many others in the field and is viewed by many as a conservative look at the problem.
I can go on if you like but you should be getting it by now.
You know that they will go for amnesty next! I want to see what the GOP is made of. I hope we can get their attention enough so that they realize talk is cheap. May kabar can give us some figures on the illegal issue.
It's a complex task to measure undocumented aliens that cross back and forth across the border.
I like Walsh's methods,they seem sound to me.
You can’t get much more transparent than the deals they’ve given Landrieu and Nelson.
However, that 1 AM vote makes me think Reid and Pelosi are they that they and their Bills will turn to smoke if exposed to sunlight. Who’s the Master and who’s Renfro in this little play?
Uhhhh... Mr. big time I didn’t hear your reply to post #26,cat got your tongue?
It appears the House does as well.
It is not the Senators who are guilty.
We the people walked into the voting booths and cheerfully employed these dirty rotten bastards to screw us.
Yes, the Dims have sixty votes to cut off debate.
From outright vote-buying to selling preferential access, corruption of the political process has a corrosive effect on democracies around the world. Policymakers in the United States and around the world have employed legal regimes and oversight mechanisms to ensure free and fair elections and impartial conduct in public office, but most of the efforts have been problematic. Two essential elements of reformtransparency and disclosureare not widespread, and where they are, attempts to circumvent them are raising concerns.
Kleptocracy (or sometimes Cleptocracy) (root: Klepto+cracy) is a form of government. It means literally "rule by thieves". It is the end-point of political corruption, where no pretence of honesty remains, and the government of a country exists solely to enrich its rulers and to perpetuate their rule. Most kleptocracies are dictatorships or some other autocratic form of government because other forms of government make theft more difficult to accomplish and conceal. Kleptocrats often use money laundering and anonymous banking as a way of protecting and concealing their ill-gotten gains.
(My Add-in: Stimulus and TARP slush funds)
Yes ... and No. They are bound by the enumerated powers, or they would be if they wanted to govern under the Constitution. The TARP/Bailout/ObamaCare bills are so far beyond their lawful authority that I don't think we can pretend the socialists in our Congress are following Article I, Section 5. They are quite clearly grabbing power and nothing more.
Never happen. I think both parties are guilty of this. Pork, earmarks, etc.
This time the legislation is being watched very closely.
Do you really believe the founding fathers meant for the senate to operate the way it does today? Do you think the article/section you quote means they can give themselves pay raises and medical care only royalty would have? Yes, the constitution says they can make their own rules but that was before the citizens decided to let them be elected (bought and paid for) instead of appointed by the governor. If it was still that way Nelson would be out of office today because the Nebraska governor would have made a phone call and said “Get your lousy ass back here. Or you can stay there if you want. But not as our senator!”
Of course not. But that is true of everything about almost everything about the government. The rules the Senate has established for itself have nothing to do with pay or gyms they can use. They have to do with limiting debate and things like that. I doubt most of these rules would have shocked someone like Thomas Jefferson.
Nope, but some of us have other things to do than post on FR.
I’ve wondered about the accuracy of Census Bureau and other official sources for statistics, most of which seem to come in around 10M to 12M for illegal aliens.
I’ve had some email discussion on the issue with Mark Krikorian, head of Center for Immigration Studies, perhaps the nation’s leading anti-immigration organization, so not exactly water-carriers for the open borders types.
According to him the Census Bureau numbers are likely to be accurate within 10% to 20% or so. He says auxiliary numbers with regard to school admissions, emergency room usage, etc. make it impossible for there to be 10M+ more illegal immigrants in the country than what the CB says.
I realize Mr. Walsh differs. I suggest you or Mr. Walsh get in touch with Mr. Krikorian if you wish to argue the point.
IOW, I have a source, you have a source. My sources are much better funded and organized. You believe my sources are part of a giant conspiracy to deceive the public. I believe your source is a typical conspiracy theory fruitcake.
More critically, I believe immigration activists have no incentive to hide the numbers of illegal aliens. In fact, their incentives run the other way. Theyre all upset about the next census undercounting them, which will negatively impact funding for their jurisdictions, representation in Congress, etc. They even want to introduce statistical sampling and adjustment of the actual count in order to get the numbers up where they think they should be.
The Senators were initially chosen by the legislatures of their State. The governors never appointed them.
Senators were chosen by the legislature for a term of six years. The legislatures had no power to recall or remove them prior to that term.
BTW, do you have any reason to believe limiting the electorate for Senator to the state legislators would reduce corruption? Seems to me a few hundred people are a lot easier to corrupt than a few million.
I only work 60 hours per week so I have plenty of time to post on FR.
Perhaps Sherman Logan would prefer to read Bear Sterns study (The Underground Labor Force Is Rising To The Surface by Robert Justich and Betty Ng, CFA) published in January 2005:
“The number of illegal immigrants in the United States may be as high as 20 million people, more than double the official 9 million people estimated by the Census Bureau.
Undocumented immigrants are gaining a larger share of the job market, and hold approximately 12 to 15 million jobs in the United States (8% of the employed)
Four to six million jobs have shifted to the underground market, as small businesses take advantage of the vulnerability of illegal residents.
The total number of legalized immigrants entering The United States since 1990 has averaged 962,000 per year. Several credible studies indicate that the number of illegal entries has recently crept up to 3 million per year, triple the authorized figure.”
Are you saying there’s no way to recall an office holder once in office?
As you know, the founding fathers felt the senators from each state would be more responsible to the people if approved by the state governments. For the same reason the state legislatures can select the electoral voters. Of course I doubt if there are any state legislators with the gonads to ever stand up and do it when they know that voter fraud is rampant. So, in that case, I guess you’re right. Nothing would be any different. We’d still have the best politicians money can buy.
I thought all legislation was supposed to originate in the house. Am I wrong on this? I’m getting old and my memory ain’t what it used to be and I’m too lazy to go look it up.
Not a federal office holder. It's not in the Constitution.
An executive branch or judicial branch office holder can be impeached and removed from office by Congress. A congressman or senator can be expelled by vote of his chamber. But there's no way for the voters to remove an officeholder prior to the next election.
I thought all legislation was supposed to originate in the house.
All financial measures must originate in the House. This was intended by the Founders to give the house most directly responsible to the people the "power of the purse," as the Commons did in England.
Hasn't really worked that way. It's pretty much a formality at this point. Most financial measures are in reality initiated by the President.
In actual fact, the Senate was intentionally designed to be less responsible (and responsive) to the people. That's why they were given a six-year term and indirect election. They were supposed to provide the long term POV and resistance to popular enthusiasms of the old Roman Senate and the British House of Lords.
The Founders were scared to death of straight democracy. In the entire federal government, as originally set up, only the Representatives were directly elected by the People. Hence their name.
Flat out bribery.
Thinking about it though, the only reason this is getting attention (I mean the bribery part) is because it is such a massive bill that would affect everyone. These types of dealings, the threats, the bribes, the coercion, the you-scratch-my-back type stuff is SOP down there.
They have long ago forgot the ideals that founded this nation/confederacy.
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