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I must have been asleep in Government Class....so a question.........
Vanity

Posted on 12/19/2009 3:57:53 PM PST by pj1070

Is there some reason that a Republican Senator cannot walk in and fillibuster ala Mr. Smith?????? If this timeline is so important why not disturb it?


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: fillibuster

1 posted on 12/19/2009 3:57:57 PM PST by pj1070
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To: pj1070

I think debate can be shut off with 60 votes, which they now have thanks to the Nebraska whore.


2 posted on 12/19/2009 3:58:50 PM PST by tips up
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To: pj1070

That is what they are doing by “reading” everything.

The days of the old “talk until you drop” filibuster are gone. It would take too much energy for these fat b-tards to stand and talk that long. And if there are sixty votes in the pocket, they can call to close debate at any time.

If it were only true, and Mr. Smith really was in DC. And not Bob Smith. Please stay away Bob.


3 posted on 12/19/2009 4:00:05 PM PST by Vermont Lt (My wife reads my posts. In case the FBI shows up, we will have cookies.)
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To: Vermont Lt

Last I heard, Bob Smith was selling real estate in Florida. NH Freepers may want to correct or verify me on that.


4 posted on 12/19/2009 4:02:47 PM PST by Clemenza (Remember our Korean War Veterans)
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To: pj1070

Because they are in on the corruption, at least most of them.


5 posted on 12/19/2009 4:04:32 PM PST by whitedog57
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To: pj1070

The Senate rules were changed. A “filibuster” is no longer done. If the pubbies had more than 40 votes, it would be a de facto filibuster, and that would have ended it. I think the rules changed during the “leadership” of Trent “the spineless jellyfish” Lott.


6 posted on 12/19/2009 4:06:16 PM PST by Sans-Culotte ( Pray for Obama- Psalm 109:8)
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To: Vermont Lt

You are correct, sir. The senate makes their own rules. Never mind the constitution.


7 posted on 12/19/2009 4:08:53 PM PST by Terry Mross (It's not racist if it's true.)
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To: pj1070; 70th Division; jesseam; SkyPilot; rodguy911; nutmeg; MamaDearest

How do the millions of Americans that resent their freedom being stolen express their anger? How do the American people express their anger about the political hacks that have stolen our government? How do the American people express their rage about the members of this Congress who have become dictators? How does the American people express their rage at the in-your-face arrogance of members of Congress who betray our heritage and spit on our Constitution? Personally, I can’t find words reprehensible enough.

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/12/19/while-you-sleep-100-am-monday-vote-set-on-obamacare/

HEADS UP EVERYONE..SEEMS LIKE OL HARRY IS PLANNING ON A “CHRISTMAS GIFT” SOME WON’T LIKE..AND THE SNEAKY WAY HE IS GOING ABOUT THIS IS DISGUSTING.


8 posted on 12/19/2009 4:10:56 PM PST by ExTexasRedhead (Clean the RAT/RINO Sewer in 2010 and 2012)
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To: tips up
I think debate can be shut off with 60 votes, which they now have thanks to the Nebraska whore.

If I were to bribe the Nebraska whore with an amount equal to what Reid gave him to secure his vote on a bill, I would go to jail! What's worse is Reid is using taxpayer dollars to fund his bribe. One would think that an enterprising conservative law maker would call for an investigation into this bribery? Landrieu gets $300 million for her vote and Nelson gets paid off too?

9 posted on 12/19/2009 4:11:20 PM PST by eeriegeno (<p>)
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To: pj1070

.. besides, the vast majority of the Republicans, especially the leadership, have no testes. They’re just trying to find out how to personally benefit from it (behind closed doors).


10 posted on 12/19/2009 4:16:19 PM PST by theDentist (fybo; qwerty ergo typo : i type, therefore i misspelll)
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To: Terry Mross
You are correct, sir. The senate makes their own rules. Never mind the constitution.

The Constitution is exactly what gives the Senate the power to establish its own rules. Article I, section 5.

11 posted on 12/19/2009 4:17:55 PM PST by Caesar Soze
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To: whitedog57
As we have said so many times before on here,the rats/dems are whores its only a matter of price.

I'm looking for a bill to legalize prostitution soon since they are so good at it right out in the open why not make it legal.

12 posted on 12/19/2009 4:22:11 PM PST by rodguy911 (HOME OF THE FREE BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE--GO SARAHCUDA !!)
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To: eeriegeno
They have all their bases covered. There is no way to get SEIU to investigate Acorn if you get my drift. The corruption is so widespread it will take a
Sarah Palin on steroids to right the many wrongs.
13 posted on 12/19/2009 4:24:12 PM PST by rodguy911 (HOME OF THE FREE BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE--GO SARAHCUDA !!)
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To: Caesar Soze; Terry Mross

How I wish Congress would keep to the Constitutional minimum of Article 2 Sec 4 Par 2.


14 posted on 12/19/2009 4:25:35 PM PST by Jim 0216
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To: whitedog57

Yes. Politicians have mastered the art of deception.

And we are paying for it! In more ways than the obvious.


15 posted on 12/19/2009 4:26:08 PM PST by K-oneTexas (I'm not a judge and there ain't enough of me to be a jury. (Zell Miller, A National Party No More))
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To: rodguy911

The following is what I sent them today....my reps and the leadership.

“I certainly hope the Republicans can postpone any form of ObamaCare with whatever it takes. The American people are watching this issue very closely. There is talk of forming a third party. This would be disasterous. Please encourage the GOP to fight hard, very hard, to prevent this bill from passing....the Senate and the House. Government spending cost us Congress, not to mention illegal immigration (this has not been forgotten). The GOP must gain our trust again.”


16 posted on 12/19/2009 4:27:42 PM PST by mtnwmn (Liberalism leads to Socialism)
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To: Terry Mross
The senate makes their own rules. Never mind the constitution.

Your comment is an embarrassment to FR:

Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, ... [Art I, Sec 5, Clause 2]
ML/NJ
17 posted on 12/19/2009 4:29:17 PM PST by ml/nj
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To: Clemenza

That’s the last I heard, too. He even ran for Senate there but never really seemed to get any traction. He was a good felloer until he went off the deep end.


18 posted on 12/19/2009 4:29:33 PM PST by Past Your Eyes (You don't have to be ignorant to be a Democrat...but if you are...so what?)
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To: mtnwmn
It's a sad state of affairs that the GOP has forced us to become conservatives first and pubbies second.

We have had to resort to treating the GOP like teenagers on crack. We hold back the crack(contributions) and donate only to conservative candidates until the tremors cease.

Fortunately most of us have learned that third parties almost invariably guarantee rat wins and we sure as hell don't need any more of that.

19 posted on 12/19/2009 4:32:53 PM PST by rodguy911 (HOME OF THE FREE BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE--GO SARAHCUDA !!)
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To: mtnwmn
You are more that correct to bring up illegal immigration since cap and tax looks too daunting for even the socialists.

That will bring immigration up next and they will go all out to legalize anyone and everyone and then shoot for open borders.

Our best argument on that will be to show what the true numbers of illegals really are,how they will help further destroy the country, since they are about double what everyone keeps saying they are.

20 posted on 12/19/2009 4:36:52 PM PST by rodguy911 (HOME OF THE FREE BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE--GO SARAHCUDA !!)
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To: rodguy911
they are about double what everyone keeps saying they are.

On what do you base this assertion? Have you gone around personally and counted?

21 posted on 12/19/2009 4:43:18 PM PST by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: rodguy911
There is no way to get SEIU to investigate Acorn if you get my drift. The corruption is so widespread....

A communist coup. They know they don't have to worry about any legal repercussions. So they rub our faces in it.


22 posted on 12/19/2009 4:43:29 PM PST by Electric Graffiti (Well, we didn't get dressed up for nothin')
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To: pj1070

Filibusters only work when the minority has at least 40 votes. You need 60 votes to kill a filibuster. The Democrats have 60 votes. That’s why everyone is making such a big deal about the fact that Sen. Judas Nelson is now voting for the bill.


23 posted on 12/19/2009 4:46:54 PM PST by Brilliant
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To: Clemenza

“Last I heard, Bob Smith was selling real estate in Florida.”

I’m in Florida, and I can verify that NO ONE is selling real estate in Florida.


24 posted on 12/19/2009 4:48:50 PM PST by Brilliant
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To: eeriegeno

Regarding the “Nebraska whore” - how can Harry pay him off with a Medicaid bribe (the feds covering the whole tab instead of splitting with the individual state)? Why wouldn’t the other Dem governors line up and demand equal protection under the law? Hence this is all a ruse, or Nelson is too dumb to know that. Anyone who goes along with this bill has no respect or caring for anyone’s life, unborn or otherwise. Dance, says the Puppetmaster, and dance they do.


25 posted on 12/19/2009 4:50:06 PM PST by Sioux-san
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To: Sherman Logan
Oh boy I dint believe you are making me justify this the 87th time, OK I will.

If you will take the time to read Illegal Aliens:Counting the Uncountable by James H. Walsh who is an immigration expert, former Federal prosecutor, U. S. German Marshall Fund scholar, you will discover as he has through extensive research that in 2005 there were 36 million illegals and 2 million visa overstays for a total of 38 million.

His research uses on site interviews with border guards and many others in the field and is viewed by many as a conservative look at the problem.

I can go on if you like but you should be getting it by now.

26 posted on 12/19/2009 4:51:17 PM PST by rodguy911 (HOME OF THE FREE BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE--GO SARAHCUDA !!)
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To: rodguy911

You know that they will go for amnesty next! I want to see what the GOP is made of. I hope we can get their attention enough so that they realize talk is cheap. May kabar can give us some figures on the illegal issue.


27 posted on 12/19/2009 4:51:53 PM PST by mtnwmn (Liberalism leads to Socialism)
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To: Electric Graffiti

Exactly!


28 posted on 12/19/2009 4:51:57 PM PST by rodguy911 (HOME OF THE FREE BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE--GO SARAHCUDA !!)
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To: mtnwmn

MAY=MAYBE :o(


29 posted on 12/19/2009 4:55:49 PM PST by mtnwmn (Liberalism leads to Socialism)
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To: mtnwmn
I trust the figures of James Walsh, kabar and I have discussed Walsh but he has not bought into his figures yet. I totally respect kabar,the guy knows govt. inside out!

It's a complex task to measure undocumented aliens that cross back and forth across the border.

I like Walsh's methods,they seem sound to me.

30 posted on 12/19/2009 4:55:52 PM PST by rodguy911 (HOME OF THE FREE BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE--GO SARAHCUDA !!)
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To: ExTexasRedhead

You can’t get much more transparent than the deals they’ve given Landrieu and Nelson.

However, that 1 AM vote makes me think Reid and Pelosi are they that they and their Bills will turn to smoke if exposed to sunlight. Who’s the Master and who’s Renfro in this little play?


31 posted on 12/19/2009 5:03:36 PM PST by hocndoc (http://www.LifeEthics.org (I've got a mustard seed and I'm not afraid to use it.))
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To: Vermont Lt
Hey, off topic but what is up with Bob Smith. He retired down here in Florida and is running for the Senate. Not much traction, but he's making the rounds. Claims he's Mr. Conservative. Please advise.
32 posted on 12/19/2009 5:25:37 PM PST by goodtomato (I'm blessed! I support Marco Rubio 2010)
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To: Sherman Logan

Uhhhh... Mr. big time I didn’t hear your reply to post #26,cat got your tongue?


33 posted on 12/19/2009 5:28:52 PM PST by rodguy911 (HOME OF THE FREE BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE--GO SARAHCUDA !!)
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To: Terry Mross
>"The senate makes their own rules. Never mind the constitution."

It appears the House does as well.

Murtha committing treason against our Republic, on the House floor 11-11-09! 2:15.

34 posted on 12/19/2009 5:32:10 PM PST by rawcatslyentist (Jeremiah 50:31 Behold, I am against you," O " you most proud, said the said the Lord GOD of hosts)
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To: pj1070
It is the American voters who are the whores. They elected these tyrants-for-life because the American people want something for nothing.

It is not the Senators who are guilty.

We the people walked into the voting booths and cheerfully employed these dirty rotten bastards to screw us.

35 posted on 12/19/2009 5:36:55 PM PST by NoControllingLegalAuthority (Tyranny - are we there yet?)
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To: pj1070

Yes, the Dims have sixty votes to cut off debate.


36 posted on 12/19/2009 5:38:50 PM PST by Nuc1 (NUC1 Sub pusher SSN 668 (Liberals Aren't Patriots))
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To: ExTexasRedhead
HEADS UP EVERYONE..SEEMS LIKE OL HARRY IS PLANNING ON A “CHRISTMAS GIFT” SOME WON’T LIKE..AND THE SNEAKY WAY HE IS GOING ABOUT THIS IS DISGUSTING.

Political Corruption in the United States and around the Globe

From outright vote-buying to selling preferential access, corruption of the political process has a corrosive effect on democracies around the world. Policymakers in the United States and around the world have employed legal regimes and oversight mechanisms to ensure free and fair elections and impartial conduct in public office, but most of the efforts have been problematic. Two essential elements of reform—transparency and disclosure—are not widespread, and where they are, attempts to circumvent them are raising concerns.

Definition of Kleptocracy

Kleptocracy (or sometimes Cleptocracy) (root: Klepto+cracy) is a form of government. It means literally "rule by thieves". It is the end-point of political corruption, where no pretence of honesty remains, and the government of a country exists solely to enrich its rulers and to perpetuate their rule. Most kleptocracies are dictatorships or some other autocratic form of government because other forms of government make theft more difficult to accomplish and conceal. Kleptocrats often use money laundering and anonymous banking as a way of protecting and concealing their ill-gotten gains.

(My Add-in: Stimulus and TARP slush funds)

37 posted on 12/19/2009 5:55:12 PM PST by MamaDearest (#1 Rule of Thieves - nothing is too large or small to steal (healhcare, cap & trade and sovereignty)
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To: Caesar Soze
The Constitution is exactly what gives the Senate the power to establish its own rules. Article I, section 5.

Yes ... and No. They are bound by the enumerated powers, or they would be if they wanted to govern under the Constitution. The TARP/Bailout/ObamaCare bills are so far beyond their lawful authority that I don't think we can pretend the socialists in our Congress are following Article I, Section 5. They are quite clearly grabbing power and nothing more.

38 posted on 12/19/2009 6:03:49 PM PST by Pollster1 (Natural born citizen of the USA, with the birth certificate to prove it)
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To: eeriegeno

Never happen. I think both parties are guilty of this. Pork, earmarks, etc.

This time the legislation is being watched very closely.


39 posted on 12/19/2009 6:43:54 PM PST by tips up
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To: ml/nj

Do you really believe the founding fathers meant for the senate to operate the way it does today? Do you think the article/section you quote means they can give themselves pay raises and medical care only royalty would have? Yes, the constitution says they can make their own rules but that was before the citizens decided to let them be elected (bought and paid for) instead of appointed by the governor. If it was still that way Nelson would be out of office today because the Nebraska governor would have made a phone call and said “Get your lousy ass back here. Or you can stay there if you want. But not as our senator!”


40 posted on 12/20/2009 9:23:24 AM PST by Terry Mross (It's not racist if it's true.)
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To: Terry Mross
Do you really believe the founding fathers meant for the senate to operate the way it does today?

Of course not. But that is true of everything about almost everything about the government. The rules the Senate has established for itself have nothing to do with pay or gyms they can use. They have to do with limiting debate and things like that. I doubt most of these rules would have shocked someone like Thomas Jefferson.

ML/NJ

41 posted on 12/20/2009 9:52:41 AM PST by ml/nj
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To: rodguy911

Nope, but some of us have other things to do than post on FR.

I’ve wondered about the accuracy of Census Bureau and other official sources for statistics, most of which seem to come in around 10M to 12M for illegal aliens.

I’ve had some email discussion on the issue with Mark Krikorian, head of Center for Immigration Studies, perhaps the nation’s leading anti-immigration organization, so not exactly water-carriers for the open borders types.

According to him the Census Bureau numbers are likely to be accurate within 10% to 20% or so. He says auxiliary numbers with regard to school admissions, emergency room usage, etc. make it impossible for there to be 10M+ more illegal immigrants in the country than what the CB says.

I realize Mr. Walsh differs. I suggest you or Mr. Walsh get in touch with Mr. Krikorian if you wish to argue the point.

IOW, I have a source, you have a source. My sources are much better funded and organized. You believe my sources are part of a giant conspiracy to deceive the public. I believe your source is a typical conspiracy theory fruitcake.

More critically, I believe “immigration activists” have no incentive to hide the numbers of illegal aliens. In fact, their incentives run the other way. They’re all upset about the next census undercounting them, which will negatively impact funding for their jurisdictions, representation in Congress, etc. They even want to introduce statistical sampling and “adjustment” of the actual count in order to get the numbers up where they think they should be.


42 posted on 12/21/2009 5:27:06 AM PST by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: Terry Mross
that was before the citizens decided to let them be elected (bought and paid for) instead of appointed by the governor. If it was still that way Nelson would be out of office today because the Nebraska governor would have made a phone call and said “Get your lousy ass back here. Or you can stay there if you want. But not as our senator!”

The Senators were initially chosen by the legislatures of their State. The governors never appointed them.

Senators were chosen by the legislature for a term of six years. The legislatures had no power to recall or remove them prior to that term.

BTW, do you have any reason to believe limiting the electorate for Senator to the state legislators would reduce corruption? Seems to me a few hundred people are a lot easier to corrupt than a few million.

43 posted on 12/21/2009 5:33:58 AM PST by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: Sherman Logan
I suggest you review what Walsh has to say. Read the book,review how he gathered data, and from whom,then tell us how brilliant you are.

I only work 60 hours per week so I have plenty of time to post on FR.

44 posted on 12/21/2009 6:42:38 AM PST by rodguy911 (HOME OF THE FREE BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE--GO SARAHCUDA !!)
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To: rodguy911; Sherman Logan

Perhaps Sherman Logan would prefer to read Bear Sterns study (The Underground Labor Force Is Rising To The Surface by Robert Justich and Betty Ng, CFA) published in January 2005:

“The number of illegal immigrants in the United States may be as high as 20 million people, more than double the official 9 million people estimated by the Census Bureau.

Undocumented immigrants are gaining a larger share of the job market, and hold approximately 12 to 15 million jobs in the United States (8% of the employed)

Four to six million jobs have shifted to the underground market, as small businesses take advantage of the vulnerability of illegal residents.

The total number of legalized immigrants entering The United States since 1990 has averaged 962,000 per year. Several credible studies indicate that the number of illegal entries has recently crept up to 3 million per year, triple the authorized figure.”


45 posted on 12/21/2009 9:58:33 AM PST by algernonpj (He who pays the piper . . .)
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To: Sherman Logan

Are you saying there’s no way to recall an office holder once in office?

As you know, the founding fathers felt the senators from each state would be more responsible to the people if approved by the state governments. For the same reason the state legislatures can select the electoral voters. Of course I doubt if there are any state legislators with the gonads to ever stand up and do it when they know that voter fraud is rampant. So, in that case, I guess you’re right. Nothing would be any different. We’d still have the best politicians money can buy.

I thought all legislation was supposed to originate in the house. Am I wrong on this? I’m getting old and my memory ain’t what it used to be and I’m too lazy to go look it up.


46 posted on 12/21/2009 3:21:58 PM PST by Terry Mross (It's not racist if it's true.)
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To: Terry Mross
Are you saying there’s no way to recall an office holder once in office?

Not a federal office holder. It's not in the Constitution.

An executive branch or judicial branch office holder can be impeached and removed from office by Congress. A congressman or senator can be expelled by vote of his chamber. But there's no way for the voters to remove an officeholder prior to the next election.

I thought all legislation was supposed to originate in the house.

All financial measures must originate in the House. This was intended by the Founders to give the house most directly responsible to the people the "power of the purse," as the Commons did in England.

Hasn't really worked that way. It's pretty much a formality at this point. Most financial measures are in reality initiated by the President.

47 posted on 12/22/2009 5:28:04 AM PST by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: Terry Mross
As you know, the founding fathers felt the senators from each state would be more responsible to the people if approved by the state governments.

In actual fact, the Senate was intentionally designed to be less responsible (and responsive) to the people. That's why they were given a six-year term and indirect election. They were supposed to provide the long term POV and resistance to popular enthusiasms of the old Roman Senate and the British House of Lords.

The Founders were scared to death of straight democracy. In the entire federal government, as originally set up, only the Representatives were directly elected by the People. Hence their name.

48 posted on 12/22/2009 5:32:08 AM PST by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: eeriegeno

Yup.
Flat out bribery.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2411900/posts

Thinking about it though, the only reason this is getting attention (I mean the bribery part) is because it is such a massive bill that would affect everyone. These types of dealings, the threats, the bribes, the coercion, the you-scratch-my-back type stuff is SOP down there.

They have long ago forgot the ideals that founded this nation/confederacy.


49 posted on 12/22/2009 5:43:52 AM PST by djf (Invest now! Buy paper! Earn interest! That's more paper!! (A little soy sauce and you CAN eat it!)
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