Skip to comments.David Frum: A Problem for Pawlenty
Posted on 12/23/2009 2:36:26 PM PST by mccainiac503
[Chuckles @ LGF] Johnsons comment seems to me radically unfair. Pawlenty is a model of sensible modern conservatism. His answers to Newsweeks barbed questions indicate an instinct for practical compromise, even as he eschews any personal support for creationism.
That said, the interview and Johnsons reaction bespeak a religious problem for Pawlenty that will require much tact on his part and that of his campaign team.
Pawlenty now attends an evangelical church, but he was born and raised a Roman Catholic. He changed denominations at marriage, accepting his wifes evangelical faith.
Without pretending any insight into the souls of the Pawlenty family, Id guess a trajectory along the following lines. A not especially religious man married a rather more religious woman. She wished the whole family to worship together, and since affiliation mattered more to her, the man followed his wife to the church of her family. Decisions like that must happen a million times a year in this multidenominational country.
... Suggesting that Pawlentys reaffiliation was motivated by family concerns does not imply that the conversion is insincere. Far from it! Its honorably and attractively American to suspect that most of the differences between religions are more or less decorative ethnocultural elements atop the deep stratum of moral and ethical truth we call the Judaeo-Christian tradition. I wonder if God regards our attempts at theology more or less the way a parent feels about the clay napkin rings the children fabricate at summer camp: the intention is much more attractive than the product. In which case, honoring your spouse pleases Him much more than guessing correctly which religious tradition is least flawed and distorted by human fallibility.
But thats just one mans view. And I dont vote in Iowa.
(Excerpt) Read more at frumforum.com ...
Chuckles is a knuckleheaded moron. This is a non issue, Mr. Frum. Pawlenty’s RINOism is however, a game killer.
Handing the election to Franken doesn’t help either
Being a Roman Catholic Christian and deciding to join a different Christian Church is not a biggie except in the eyes of the Liberals. Christian is Christian.
Catholic man’s conscience was not formed by Catholic teaching. In that unformed state, he met a woman who had a conscience formed by her evangelical church. Man’s conscience was drawn to hers. Ergo, man joins wife’s church. End of story.
There is nothing wayward or illicit here.
And we Catholic pray for everyone’s soul and conscience, including the man who sits behind the desk in the oval office.
You are the real reason Goldwater lost. Get over it, you could never support Sarah, so go over to Mitts board.
The fact remains the margin of victory in a general Presidential election is determined by the independents, not either party's faithful.
Independents are not, by definition, moderates (a mistake people like Frum often make). Often times independents may be more aligned to a Pat Buchanan populist than a McCain Republican.
Secondly, it is more often the moderate Republicans who abandon the Republican party (as seen in the Clinton/Perot, and Obama elections) than the hard right, so the idea a hard-right evangelical Republican would not vote for Pawlenty because he was once a Roman Catholic, and does not aggressively champion speficic fundamentalist beliefs, is on the surface, absurd.
Which brings up a third point, evangelical is not synonymous with fundamentalist. This is a broad brush used by ignorant fools like Frum to paint all "evangelicals" as backwards snake handlers. Witness what they did with Palin. She went to a non-denominational seeker friendly evangelical church, and when they could not find anything scandalous there, they went back a decade to when she attended an Pentecostal church and pulled whatever they could to try to paint her as intolerant.
Frum is an idiot, and Charles Johnson is a lunatic. When the best we can debate about our potential Presidential candidates is their current choice of religious denomination, it indicates we have extremely experienced potential candidates. Compare that to Obama, where the debate was much more focused on qualifications and basic knowledge of the candidate's history.
Frum doesn’t have a clue about anything, does he?
So every candidate I like is either a RINO because they're not "pure" enough or attacked by center left (more left than center) douchebags like Chuckles for being a evangelical creationist gay hating nutjob.
This is exactly why I've given up all hope. I vote for the GOP but it's really a matter of not having anyone better to vote for and because my principles and ideology won't allow me to side with the nanny state collectivists.
... speaking of RINOs, I'm ready to resurrect Goldwater.
Is it Pawlenty in particular, or anyone who makes a similar change?
well, it doesn’t matter what they personally believe in but it does matter if they’re going to screw you with higher taxes/regulations
Couldn’t bring myself to give a click to Frum’s web site. But I read the LGF and Newsweek pieces. Pawlenty’s not my kind of a candidate for RINO reasons: he doesn’t seem tough enough or committed enough to tiny government.
But he and Sarah are both capable of describing their more
fundamentalist religious beliefs than what appeals to many moderate/independent voters without coming across as scary, crazy, or as if they are going to legislate away everyone else’s freedoms.
He’s too mild and tepid for me, but he was respectful, honest and fair when asked about Palin, and he is one of the more marketable candidates we have. Wouldn’t surprise me if it came down to Pawlenty and Palin by 2012, and the last round’s candidates (Huck and Mitt) were old news.
Also wouldn’t totally shock me if he, like Rick Perry, could see himself in the running for Palin’s running mate. Instead of the Cheney/Biden old congressional hand, she could want a more consistent message of outsiders coming in to clean up Washington.
Pawlenty is a RINO. Seriously, haven’t we had enough of them? Pawlenty at a national level would get his butt kicked in any election. When I see him on TV I change the channel.
Nope. I love Barry. I'd like to replace all 40 GOP Senators with clones of Barry.
"I don't have any respect for the Religious Right." -- Barry Goldwater
"Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell's ass." -- Barry Goldwater
"I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of 'conservatism.'" -- Barry Goldwater
[Too many Republicans that too many Republicans have adopted the Democratic principle that the people of the U.S. should be] federally born, federally housed, federally clothed, federally educated, federally supported in their occupations, and die a federal death, thereafter to be buried in a federal box in a federal cemetery" -- Barry Goldwater
When Sarah starts talking like that, I'll listen to what she has to say. Hell, find me ANY Republican who talks like that today and I'll listen. None of them would dare to say the things Barry made a habit of saying out loud.
Please, don’t rain on the Sarah parade...
Goldwater lost his marbles. You might want to quote him from his peak years, not his scattered autumn.
You are correct. He’s Frum Canada...what do they know about Conservatism? He’s an A$$-Clown. We need to fumigate the GOP. If you don’t follow Constitutional principles go play in the middle of the road so you can get your yellow stripe painted down your back. We do not have the luxury to placate clowns like From/Frum whatever.
Whom do you support for 2912 as of today Bob J? I don’t think I’ve ever seen you answer that question.
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