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Furor Erupts Over Atheist Display At State Capitol
CBS ^ | 12/24/09 | Adam Harrington

Posted on 12/24/2009 7:49:55 AM PST by Former Fetus

A conservative activist and Illinois comptroller candidate was escorted from the Illinois State Capitol building Wednesday when he tried to remove a sign put up by an atheist group.

William J. Kelly announced Tuesday that he planned to take down the sign put up by the Freedom from Religion Foundation, and on Wednesday, he tried to make good on his plan.

But Kelly said when he turned the sign around so it was face down, state Capitol police were quick to escort him away.

(Excerpt) Read more at cbs2chicago.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; US: Illinois
KEYWORDS: antichristmas; atheists; christmas; illinois; nativity; publicsquare
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This is what the sign says: "At the time of the winter solstice, let reason prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is just myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."

God bless Mr. Kelly and may the people of Illinois remember this on election day.

1 posted on 12/24/2009 7:49:55 AM PST by Former Fetus
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To: Former Fetus

HE should have burned it and claimed freedom of expression.


2 posted on 12/24/2009 7:52:44 AM PST by Plumberman27
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To: Former Fetus

I have an answer to their stupid sign.

“Let people believe as they wish.”


3 posted on 12/24/2009 7:52:54 AM PST by wastedyears (I see absolutely no easy way out of this. My generation is the last bastion of hope America has.)
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To: Former Fetus

Let that “brave” atheist post that sign within site of a Illinois Mosque and the hate crimes gestapo would have been all over him, if he lived long enough.


4 posted on 12/24/2009 7:55:41 AM PST by junta (S.C.U.M. = State Controlled Unreliable Media)
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To: wastedyears

I’d just put up a second sign with an arrow pointing to the stupid signs saying, “What people who go to Hell believe.”


5 posted on 12/24/2009 7:55:47 AM PST by keats5 (Not all of us are hypnotized.)
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To: wastedyears

I’d just put up a second sign with an arrow pointing to the stupid sign saying, “What people who go to Hell believe.”


6 posted on 12/24/2009 7:55:59 AM PST by keats5 (Not all of us are hypnotized.)
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To: junta

Good for him. This is a CHRISTIAN Nation.


7 posted on 12/24/2009 7:57:23 AM PST by AUH2O Repub ( SPalin/Hunter 2012)
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To: Plumberman27

He couldn’t burn it. It’s against the law. You can only burn the American flag. That’s how far we have come.


8 posted on 12/24/2009 7:59:08 AM PST by RC2
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To: Plumberman27
He should have burned it and claimed freedom of expression.

I take it you're a big fan of vandalism, then?

9 posted on 12/24/2009 7:59:44 AM PST by GL of Sector 2814 (One man's theology is another man's belly laugh -- Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Former Fetus

How about a sign that says “The natural world is only that which can be measured. How much does love weigh? How tall is humor?”

Alternatively, I’d put up a poster quoting Romans 1:18-23., with verse 22 in bold.


10 posted on 12/24/2009 8:00:59 AM PST by JoyjoyfromNJ (Psalm 121)
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To: Former Fetus

You can’t be free to choose God if you aren’t at first free.


11 posted on 12/24/2009 8:03:34 AM PST by mnehring
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To: Former Fetus

Right. Cause their aren’t any atheists with hardened hearts and enslaved minds.


12 posted on 12/24/2009 8:03:37 AM PST by chrisser (Tweet not, lest ye a twit be.)
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To: GL of Sector 2814; Plumberman27
He should have burned it and claimed freedom of expression. I take it you're a big fan of vandalism, then?

Go ride your festivus pole you big dope! We have had quite enough of this baloney. AND MERRY CHRISTMAS!

13 posted on 12/24/2009 8:10:21 AM PST by frogjerk
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To: Former Fetus

What gives them the right to post their religious views in a public building while banning Christian displays? Nothing.
Allowing a display endorsing atheism while disallowing other beliefs is exactly what the Constitution prohibits.


14 posted on 12/24/2009 8:10:24 AM PST by bitterohiogunclinger (America held hostage - day 163)
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To: Former Fetus
Religion is just myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."

Communism was athiestic, and enslaved more minds than any force in history. Churches are by far the largest charities in the world, helping those less fortunate again and again. Jesus Christ has not hardened their hearts.

15 posted on 12/24/2009 8:17:17 AM PST by montag813
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To: Former Fetus
"We atheists believe that the nativity scene is mocking humanity," by suggesting that those who do not believe in Jesus will go to hell, Barker said. "But notice that we are not defacing or stealing nativity scenes because we disagree with their speech."

Nah, you get a fraud in a black robe to steal it for you.

Tiny man.

16 posted on 12/24/2009 8:17:19 AM PST by skeeter
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To: frogjerk
Go ride your festivus pole you big dope!

Gosh...what can I say when presented with such a calm, reasoned argument?

17 posted on 12/24/2009 8:17:53 AM PST by GL of Sector 2814 (One man's theology is another man's belly laugh -- Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: GL of Sector 2814

+1


18 posted on 12/24/2009 8:19:28 AM PST by mnehring
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To: Former Fetus
"There is only our natural world."

An expression of faith, not fact.

19 posted on 12/24/2009 8:20:59 AM PST by Jagdgewehr (The GOP faithful want me to believe I have only two voting options......"bad" and "worse")
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To: Former Fetus

Defacto state supported religion. The man has a great basis for a 1983 civil rights action. This should be come a class action against the State of Illinois for unlawful restraint in support of a specific religion.


20 posted on 12/24/2009 8:21:14 AM PST by Steamburg ( Your wallet speaks the only language most politicians understand.)
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To: Former Fetus

This is actually the second year the sign has been placed at the Capitol. The people who were responsibile for the sign aren’t even from Illinois.


21 posted on 12/24/2009 8:22:52 AM PST by stars & stripes forever ( Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness)
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To: Former Fetus

“There is only our natural world.”

The natural world is a very cruel and hard place.


22 posted on 12/24/2009 8:25:29 AM PST by artichokegrower
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To: bitterohiogunclinger
What gives them the right to post their religious views in a public building while banning Christian displays? Nothing. Allowing a display endorsing atheism while disallowing other beliefs is exactly what the Constitution prohibits.

No Christian display was banned. The atheist religious view was posted alongside a nativity scene. They even had a Festivus display. I'm just disappointed the Pastafarians weren't represented.
23 posted on 12/24/2009 8:27:13 AM PST by drjimmy
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To: artichokegrower
The natural world is a very cruel and hard place.

I disagree. It is, however, utterly indifferent.

24 posted on 12/24/2009 8:29:32 AM PST by GL of Sector 2814 (One man's theology is another man's belly laugh -- Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: drjimmy
I'm just disappointed the Pastafarians weren't represented.

They were at the Italian restaurant across the street.

25 posted on 12/24/2009 8:31:21 AM PST by mnehring
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To: Former Fetus

What an exclusionary sign! It must have come from one of those narrow-minded religious groups.


26 posted on 12/24/2009 8:32:03 AM PST by Lonely Bull
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To: GL of Sector 2814
Go ride your festivus pole you big dope! Gosh...what can I say when presented with such a calm, reasoned argument?

The time for calm reasoned arguments is past.

27 posted on 12/24/2009 8:35:22 AM PST by frogjerk
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To: JoyjoyfromNJ

That’s my favorite argument against atheism — the mind. The fact that our thoughts and perceptions can’t be measured yet still exist blows a hole in atheism’s materialist premises big enough to drive a Mack truck through.


28 posted on 12/24/2009 8:39:21 AM PST by Yardstick
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To: frogjerk
The time for calm reasoned arguments is past.

This being the case, you seem to think that the best way to resolve a disagreement over a public display in a state capital is with arson.

Call me Caspar Milquetoast, but that seems to be a bit of an overreaction.

29 posted on 12/24/2009 8:51:18 AM PST by GL of Sector 2814 (One man's theology is another man's belly laugh -- Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: GL of Sector 2814

Please go soak your head


30 posted on 12/24/2009 9:06:54 AM PST by frogjerk
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To: frogjerk; GL of Sector 2814
This being the case, you seem to think that the best way to resolve a disagreement over a public display in a state capital is with arson.

Who is attempting or asking to burn down the capital house? Talk about overreacting and overstating the situation.

Please go soak your head

And Merry Christmas. And please lighten up, not with "arson" of course.

31 posted on 12/24/2009 9:14:02 AM PST by frogjerk
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To: mnehring
Are the Pastafarians people who believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster*?

* (a contemptuous term for an imaginary deity invented by aggressive atheists)

32 posted on 12/24/2009 9:14:19 AM PST by hellbender
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To: frogjerk
Please go soak your head.

Well, I am about to shampoo my hair, so...

Oh, wait. That was another sophomoric gratuitous insult, wasn't it? Well, you did say that the time for calm and reason was past, so fair enough. At least you're being consistent.

33 posted on 12/24/2009 9:16:01 AM PST by GL of Sector 2814 (One man's theology is another man's belly laugh -- Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: frogjerk
And please lighten up

You want to burn other people's property and you're telling me to lighten up?

34 posted on 12/24/2009 9:18:40 AM PST by GL of Sector 2814 (One man's theology is another man's belly laugh -- Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: hellbender
Are the Pastafarians people who believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster*?

Yes, with the caveat that Pastafarians don't actually "believe" in the FSM.

* (a contemptuous term for an imaginary deity invented by aggressive atheists)

The FSM is the deity of a parody religion created with the express intent of mocking the Intelligent Design movement.

35 posted on 12/24/2009 9:24:19 AM PST by GL of Sector 2814 (One man's theology is another man's belly laugh -- Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: frogjerk
Who is attempting or asking to burn down the capital house? Talk about overreacting and overstating the situation.

I acknowledge the misuse of the term, you're merely advocating the burning of other people's private property.

36 posted on 12/24/2009 9:26:00 AM PST by GL of Sector 2814 (One man's theology is another man's belly laugh -- Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: bitterohiogunclinger
From the Article:
But Kelly called the sign "hate speech," and said he does not believe it is appropriate for a sign that "mocks" religion to be placed next to a Christmas tree and also near a nativity scene.

"I don't think the State of Illinois has any business denigrating or mocking any religion," Kelly said, "and I think that's what the verbiage on the sign was doing."

So as you see, they HAVE a nativity scene, this isn't about allowing one while banning another, this is about a person deciding not to respect freedom, and thereby risking us losing the ability to put up a nativity scene at the capital.

Imagine if an Atheist, rather than putting up their offensive sign, simply burned down the nativity? Would your argument about only allowing certain religious views give him that right?

37 posted on 12/24/2009 9:27:04 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: GL of Sector 2814

In the natural world I would over power you, take your food, shelter and women leaving you out in the cold. Through the moral values instilled in humans, by their religion, I instead, if you were nearby, would bring you a gift and wish you Merry Christmas.


38 posted on 12/24/2009 9:28:27 AM PST by artichokegrower
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To: GL of Sector 2814; frogjerk

Maybe it was a typo, and he meant “Light-em up”.


39 posted on 12/24/2009 9:29:13 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: artichokegrower
In the natural world I would over power you, take your food, shelter and women leaving you out in the cold. Through the moral values instilled in humans, by their religion, I instead, if you were nearby, would bring you a gift and wish you Merry Christmas.

And through the moral values instilled in other humans by their religion, they would declare a Jihad on me and cut my throat.

Moral values and religion are part of the "natural" world. Actually, the term is redundant, since nature by definition encompasses everything that exists.

40 posted on 12/24/2009 9:39:56 AM PST by GL of Sector 2814 (One man's theology is another man's belly laugh -- Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Ha!


41 posted on 12/24/2009 9:42:01 AM PST by GL of Sector 2814 (One man's theology is another man's belly laugh -- Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Former Fetus
He should have vomited on it and called it Artistic Expression.
42 posted on 12/24/2009 9:57:46 AM PST by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country! What else needs said?)
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To: Former Fetus

He would be well within his right to remove a sign if it were displayed on his own property, but it wasn’t. Either all religions are allowed to place religious displays on tax-payer-owned property, or none are. No religion can be given special permission.

Or do you think Christians are exempt from respecting other people’s rights?


43 posted on 12/24/2009 10:01:49 AM PST by LifeComesFirst (http://rw-rebirth.blogspot.com/)
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To: LifeComesFirst
Or do you think Christians are exempt from respecting other people’s rights?

Based on some of the comments in this and other threads, a significant number of posters on this forum think the answer to that question is "yes".

44 posted on 12/24/2009 10:24:51 AM PST by GL of Sector 2814 (One man's theology is another man's belly laugh -- Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: LifeComesFirst
The atheist sign is partially OBSTRUCTING the Christmas tree.

"But Kelly said he believes the problem is not only the verbiage of the sign, but also its proximity to the Christmas tree.

"The fact that sign was immediately in front of the tree, I found that to be disturbing because any family and any child would run up to that tree with a smile on their face, and they would immediately see that sign," Kelly said. "

ALSO -- the sign is not promoting a "religion" or "non-religion", it is ATTACKING all religions.

"The sign reads: "At the time of the winter solstice, let reason prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is just myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."

45 posted on 12/24/2009 11:53:28 AM PST by SmartInsight (Dems in power are a clear and present danger to our freedom and the survival of our nation.)
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To: Former Fetus

Hateful anti-religions signs are OK and are protected by the government, but angels are immediately removed from Christmas trees, so as “not to offend”.

What’s wrong with this picture?

California Official Orders Removal of Christmas Angel After Complaint

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2413797/posts

“There’s no place for angels atop Christmas trees, according to one California man who successfully lobbied for the removal of religious symbols at county buildings after spotting a yuletide decoration last week.

Stars and other religious emblems were ordered removed from Christmas trees in all government buildings in Sonoma County on Monday following a complaint by Irv Sutley, a disabled 65-year-old Marine veteran who said the symbols were “extremely offensive” and part of the “cult” of Christianity.

Sutley said he filed the complaint with acting County Administrator Chris Thomas on Dec. 18 after noticing an angel atop a six-foot tree in the lobby of the county recorder’s office. Sutley, a lifelong atheist and chairman of the county’s Peace and Freedom Party, said he visited the office last week for his re-election bid next June.”


46 posted on 12/24/2009 11:57:25 AM PST by SmartInsight (Dems in power are a clear and present danger to our freedom and the survival of our nation.)
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To: Former Fetus

So the Atheist establishment of Atheist Theocratic rule is ok with the ACLU?


47 posted on 12/24/2009 12:24:48 PM PST by a fool in paradise (Question authority!Who is the University of East Anglia to drive the 'Global Climate Change' agenda?)
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To: GL of Sector 2814

Pee on it and ask for an NEA grant.


48 posted on 12/24/2009 12:25:36 PM PST by a fool in paradise (Question authority!Who is the University of East Anglia to drive the 'Global Climate Change' agenda?)
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To: SmartInsight
ALSO -- the sign is not promoting a "religion" or "non-religion", it is ATTACKING all religions.

The same restriction on our government establishing a state religion forbids our government from restricting (or denouncing the validity of) other faiths.

49 posted on 12/24/2009 12:27:13 PM PST by a fool in paradise (Question authority!Who is the University of East Anglia to drive the 'Global Climate Change' agenda?)
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To: Former Fetus

I’ve listened to FFR radio show on Air Amerika. They sound giddy when they do something like this. Think they do it just to *iss people off.

I want to ask them one day, how does it hurt you? You don’t believe, that’s OK, why do you have be jerks about it?


50 posted on 12/24/2009 12:39:27 PM PST by Springman (Rest In Peace YaYa123)
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