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Passengers’ Quick Action Halted Attack
nyt ^ | 12/27/09 | By SCOTT SHANE and ERIC LIPTON

Posted on 12/27/2009 8:29:33 AM PST by Flavius

Despite the billions spent since 2001 on intelligence and counterterrorism programs, sophisticated airport scanners and elaborate watch lists, it was something simpler that averted disaster on a Christmas Day flight to Detroit: alert and courageous passengers and crew members.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: flight253; letsroll; wars
how dare the civvies defend themselves without the almighty blessing of the state


1 posted on 12/27/2009 8:29:37 AM PST by Flavius
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To: Flavius

“The system worked.”


http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5h8vQklBs9xrxofvmdvPzvz4Ml1DQ

Al-Qaeda vows revenge for Yemeni strike: TV

(AFP) – 5 days ago

(snip)

The New York Times reported that US President Barack Obama approved firepower, intelligence and other support for Yemen’s efforts against Al-Qaeda.


2 posted on 12/27/2009 8:33:36 AM PST by maggief
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To: Flavius

Actually I am dismayed that a minute or so went by after the flash. the last time I flew, I did my own informal profiling at the gate and even engaging them to see if they were Muslim or not and were there a flash by them, I would have been on them more quickly than the case here.


3 posted on 12/27/2009 8:34:48 AM PST by blackminorca
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To: Flavius

As we all know – thanks to being told so by successive administrations — Islam is the religion of peace*. Thanks to the actions of one brave passenger — who fully understood that he had nothing to lose — this incident remained a small one.

Thanks to PC and the chronic disease known as “Cranial Anal Inversion Syndrome” among most alleged American “leaders” all the way up to the White Mosque — er — House, this “small” incident — and all like it in the future — will disappear down the Orwellian memory hole.

I suspect the primary cause of the failure to put this guy – and only God knows how many more — on a no-fly list is that the folks down the food chain and on the ground who are SUPPOSED to keep these MUSLIM idiots off commercial flights are severely conflicted. On one hand, they are tasked to keep flying safe. On the other, they’ve all had multiple memos and “sensitivity sessions” stressing that they MUST NOT PROFILE but be especially alert to the feelings of Muslims. Any actions taken against them MUST be fully justified and documented. The vernacular expression dealing with that is “CYA.” And so they do — while the rest of us die or, thanks to the actions of a passenger, have a very close call on approach to Detroit.

Compounding the problem is that this particular miscreant was not only a Muslim but a black guy from Nigeria. And the American president is _________ (fill in the correct color) and, having been born to a Muslim father and raised in a Muslim country, sympathetic to the religion of _________. (fill in the appropriate term).

The response to this near-tragedy? Fatherland Security now keeps passengers in their seats for the last hour of the trip!! Great! I suspect sales of Depends will soon spike. Now these folks will die at 35,000 feet and the wreckage will be strewn over hundreds of square miles making it virtually impossible to determine if it WAS an act of mass murder by (select one) an angry Norwegian, Donald Duck, Mickey Mouse, a Muslim nutcase. A few more of these and the air travel industry will be COMPLETELY dead.

By their INACTION and persistence in their denial that we are at war with a determined and dedicated enemy, these alleged “leaders” have 100% guaranteed that the next one will NOT be “small.”
* BTW, “peace” has two definitions:
1. The absence of conflict or war.
2. The ABSENCE or SUPPRESSION OF RESISTANCE TO SOME FORCE, POLICY, IDEOLOGY or POLITICAL SYSTEM, etc. WITH WHICH ONE HAS AN ABIDING DISAGREEMENT WHICH ONE WOULD OTHERWISE ATTEMPT TO DEFEAT TO THE POINT OF TAKING UP ARMS.


4 posted on 12/27/2009 8:34:48 AM PST by Dick Bachert (THE 2010 ELECTIONS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT IN OUR LIFETIMES! BE THERE!!!)
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To: Flavius
The episode, which riveted the attention of President Obama on vacation in Hawaii...

Riveted? Really?

Have we heard from Obama yet? Not that I enjoy the sound of his voice, but he is the president.

5 posted on 12/27/2009 8:37:42 AM PST by SandyInSeattle (Socialism is the plundering of the productive by the unaccountable)
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To: Flavius

Actually the attempted terrorist attack didn’t succeed because of a technical or incompetent terrorist problem. Glad the passengers acted and caught the guy but if this was PETN and did explode it would have been too late.


6 posted on 12/27/2009 8:37:53 AM PST by Eagles6 ( Typical White Guy: Christian, Constitutionalist, Heterosexual, Redneck. (Let them eat arugula!))
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To: Flavius

Don’t know why they’re crediting “passengers and crew” - sounds like that if it wasn’t for the Dutchman (Schuringa) the rest of them would have been toast (literally).


7 posted on 12/27/2009 8:39:10 AM PST by Riodacat (Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.)
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To: Flavius
Defense 101:
Nothing is better than an alert citizenry that's willing to act!!
8 posted on 12/27/2009 8:40:01 AM PST by evad (It's A Mont Thing)
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To: Flavius

Seems to me it was a faulty triggering device that saved the day.


9 posted on 12/27/2009 8:40:45 AM PST by Bob J
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To: SandyInSeattle
Have we heard from Obama yet?

Just like the Fort Hood terror attack. Too little, too late. When you see the reports on TV about the NW Air terror attack and then they switch to the reporter covering Hawaii with the resort background, it really, really makes zero look bad.

10 posted on 12/27/2009 8:41:58 AM PST by jersey117
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To: SandyInSeattle

He’s riveted to his golf clubs - responding to a terrorist attack is above his pay grade.


11 posted on 12/27/2009 8:44:24 AM PST by GnuHere
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To: Flavius

This terrorist attack was thwarted by the courage and quick thinking of one individual, and his disregard of political correctness and groupthink.

Political correctness is the terrorists’ greatest weapon. We defeat them if we replace political correctness with common sense and bravery like Jasper Schuringa.


12 posted on 12/27/2009 8:44:26 AM PST by reasonisfaith (When liberal ideology is put into practice it accomplishes, universally, the opposite of its claims.)
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To: Flavius

Obnama is not an American. Not even close. He’s a foreigner and a moslem supporter at best. He needs to be thrown out of office.


13 posted on 12/27/2009 8:45:09 AM PST by isthisnickcool (GIVE ME YOUR MONEY B***!! - President Obama)
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To: Dick Bachert

Islam the religion of peace?
More like the religion of pieces as in the want to cut everyone that is not a muslim into little tiny pieces...


14 posted on 12/27/2009 8:47:44 AM PST by SECURE AMERICA
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To: Flavius
I have just watched the head of Homeland Security say of ABC's “This Week” that once the incident occurred everything worked the way it was supposed too. I can't say what I want to regarding that way of thinking, except hogwash! The whole idea behind our security operations is supposed to be PREVENTION not reaction!

The guy who had a bomb in his underwear was know to the security services. But he was not on the right list. I am sure it all makes sense when you look at the flow chart and Power Point slide. But as far as getting the job done it is a FAILURE!

As long as we think this is a law enforcement problem and not warfare in the 21st century we will again and again see regular people like the passengers on that jet carrying on the fight! AS long as our government is more worried about a ACLU law suite or a nasty press release from CAIR the public in general will be at risk.

We will now see the present administration do damage control instead of the corrective steps needed. We will see the TSA unionized. The terrorist trail will take place in New York (to a liberal the only battlefield they know is a Federal courtroom). Gitmo will be closed. The war in Afghanistan will be fought half heartily.

Because of this people will die (as they did at Fort Hood) and be put in danger as they were on Christmas day.

15 posted on 12/27/2009 8:51:14 AM PST by Ironsman
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To: Bob J

My understanding of the nature of the device is that it is necessary to keep the critical liquid components separate until just before mixing them; once mixed, one then needs to wait the necessary time for the reaction to reach the maximum explosive state before igniting.

Once ignited, BANG!!.


16 posted on 12/27/2009 8:54:42 AM PST by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, then writes again.)
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To: SandyInSeattle
Have we heard from Obama yet?

They haven't had time to "focus group" the event yet. Our leadership has evolved from Washington, Lincoln, and Reagan to focus groups, poll sampling, and teleprompters.

17 posted on 12/27/2009 8:54:55 AM PST by TruthShallSetYouFree (Kenya tell me where Obama was born?)
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To: Riodacat

The Dutchman said he didn’t think, just acted. This is what the military trains people to do. Timing is everything; don’t deliberate; just act.


18 posted on 12/27/2009 8:55:27 AM PST by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: Riodacat

The Dutchman said he didn’t think, just acted. This is what the military trains people to do. Timing is everything; don’t deliberate; just act.


19 posted on 12/27/2009 8:55:34 AM PST by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: Flavius

Could it be that the Dutch have had their fill of muslims, and this man knew to act. Meanwhile, the American sheeple struggle with the idea of being persecuted for accosting a peace loving muslim?

I’m just saying.


20 posted on 12/27/2009 9:02:18 AM PST by brownsfan (The average American: Uninformed, and unconcerned.)
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To: maggief

It was all part of Butch Napalitanos cunning plan


21 posted on 12/27/2009 9:02:22 AM PST by mylife (The Roar Of the Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: RobbyS
I neither watch nor listen to, the State-run media. Would someone tell me, has the MSM started to lable the “Dutchman”
as racist, anti-Muslim, right wing nutcase, et al.
I am waiting for that to occur.
22 posted on 12/27/2009 9:03:46 AM PST by Mr. Wright
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To: Old Professer

Agreed, but how long was the terrorist/passenger supposed to burn before the mixture ignited?

My point is if the effort had gone as planned, there would be no passenger heroes, only caualties. Of course, the passengers involved were heroic but I don’t think it is accurate to say they thwarted the attempt. The mixture not igniting properly or on time was what kept this from becoming a disaster.


23 posted on 12/27/2009 9:04:22 AM PST by Bob J
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To: Old Professer

I urge all jihadis to make underwear bombs and try them out the next time they go to mosque.


24 posted on 12/27/2009 9:04:47 AM PST by bigbob
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To: Dick Bachert
A few more of these and the air travel industry will be COMPLETELY dead.

As far as I'm concerned....it is. After long tedious trips with all the hoopla, stupid rules and near misses upon take-off and landing... I think I'll just drive or stay home....

25 posted on 12/27/2009 9:05:21 AM PST by LaineyDee (Don't mess with Texas wimmen!)
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To: Mr. Wright

“I am waiting for that to occur.”

I’m with you, I ignore the SRM outlets, it’s bad for my blood pressure to hear what they say. And you’re correct, it’s just a matter of time before the Dutchman is cast as an evil, overly aggressive nutjob.


26 posted on 12/27/2009 9:06:06 AM PST by brownsfan (The average American: Uninformed, and unconcerned.)
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To: mylife

More like a cunning stunt.

;)


27 posted on 12/27/2009 9:06:10 AM PST by maggief
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To: maggief
Hey Mr President

Janets Song~Blowing Up Detriot

28 posted on 12/27/2009 9:11:54 AM PST by mylife (The Roar Of the Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Flavius
They found no immediate signs that other flights were in danger, officials said. They tightened airport security, ordering new restrictions on carry-on luggage and passenger movement inside the cabin, but did not elevate the nation’s threat level, which has been at orange since 2006.

Showing that the terror threat level system is a FReeking joke.

29 posted on 12/27/2009 9:12:56 AM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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Janets Song~Blowing Up Detroit
30 posted on 12/27/2009 9:15:40 AM PST by mylife (The Roar Of the Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Flavius

“......the billions spent since 2001 on intelligence and counterterrorism programs, sophisticated airport scanners and elaborate watch lists, ...”

Yet after nearly 8 years without an attack, Obama and the dems were able to wipe out those protections.... with 3 terrorist attacks within less that a single year.

Does Pelosi still maintain that the CIA lied to Congress, and will Obama continue to apologize to the world for our existence?


31 posted on 12/27/2009 9:19:56 AM PST by Gator113 (Obama is America's First Failed Black Pres-dent.....)
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To: maggief

“More like a cunning stunt.”

A Spoonerism is at the ready, for which I would surely be banned.


32 posted on 12/27/2009 9:20:17 AM PST by FMBass ("Now that I'm sober I watch a lot of news"- Garofalo from Coulter's "Treason")
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To: Bob J
I have nothing but praise for the passengers who acted to stop this attacker. But the only reason they had a chance to do anything was because the bomb failed to go off correctly. I myself thank God for that. The botton line is that once a terrorist gets on a plane with a bomb everything on our side has failed! Depending on the bomb not to work correctly every time is a fouls hope. We either get on top of the security system we are using or we will be burying more people!
33 posted on 12/27/2009 9:20:49 AM PST by Ironsman
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To: FMBass

Aww comon’ Obama is a fine orator, and Janet is cunning linguist


34 posted on 12/27/2009 9:25:11 AM PST by mylife (The Roar Of the Masses Could Be Farts)
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tagline up date


35 posted on 12/27/2009 9:29:01 AM PST by mylife (Obama is a fine orator, and Janet Napalitano is cunning linguist)
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To: Eagles6

This is very true - these high explosives let go at thousands of feet per second and that is way to quick for anything to stop it.


36 posted on 12/27/2009 10:04:41 AM PST by blackminorca
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To: Flavius

Kudos to the passengers, but the sad fact is that the terrorist acts was OVER when the bomb failed to detonate.

If anything, they could have let that asshole smolder his junk for a few more minutes.

There is no victory in any of this.


37 posted on 12/27/2009 10:09:52 AM PST by SJSAMPLE
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To: Old Professer

PETN isn’t a binary explosive. It’s a unitary explosive that requires no prep.

It’s the same thing used in military and civvy det cord and does just fine with a simple blasting cap.

Man, I used to LOVE playing with that stuff in The Army.

Good times.
Good times ...


38 posted on 12/27/2009 10:12:15 AM PST by SJSAMPLE
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To: Flavius

While the rats were busy monitoring us conservatives,they let the real terrorists go.It took passengers to stop him. We need to hammer them on this!


39 posted on 12/27/2009 10:43:24 AM PST by nomad
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To: Flavius

No, but they seem not to be treating him as the hero he was.


40 posted on 12/27/2009 12:28:29 PM PST by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: Old Professer

From what I have read, he got too jumpy to execute well.


41 posted on 12/27/2009 12:30:52 PM PST by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: Riodacat
Not true. The Dutchman got the perp after the fact. What kept the plane from blowing up was the poorly constructed bomb. They jumped on the perp, hosed him down with a fire extinguisher and it was too bad they couldn't have let him burn a few minutes longer but of course they were on an airplane. The most the Dutchman accomplished was helping to put the fire out.

Had the bomb detonated as planned, no one could have done anything to stop it. This was a total security failure from start to finish.

42 posted on 12/27/2009 1:10:34 PM PST by calex59
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To: calex59
No, Schuringa tackled the guy during the attempt to ignite the device.
The device did not have to detonate to do the kind of damage to take the plane out of the sky.
Had the fire not been put out quickly, it would have consumed the plane
Schuringa burned his hands taking the device from the perp and called for fire extiquishers.
Others who subsequently assisted in extinquishing the flames were bit players.

43 posted on 12/27/2009 1:20:00 PM PST by Riodacat (Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.)
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To: Riodacat
NO, he grabbed the guy after it went pop(that was the failure to detonate properly)and his leg caught on fire. Yep, stopping the fire was important but if the bomb had detonated properly, and it was detonated, then nothing could have been done. The fire was never any danger to the plane. Fire extinguishers were out and being used quickly.

I am glad the Dutchman acted to subdue the perp but he did NOT stop the explosion. A poorly constructed bomb, or the stupidity of the terrorist(unclear which), saved the passengers.

44 posted on 12/27/2009 1:33:51 PM PST by calex59
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