Posted on 12/28/2009 9:24:51 PM PST by SmithL
Police need reasons to believe a suspect is dangerous before firing a Taser and can't use their stun gun simply because the person is disobeying orders or acting erratically, a federal appeals court in San Francisco ruled Monday.
The decision by the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals sets judicial standards for police and for people who claim they were victims of excessive force after police hit them with a Taser dart.
"The objective facts must indicate that the suspect poses an immediate threat to the officer or a member of the public," Judge Kim Wardlaw said in the 3-0 ruling.
Though stun guns may offer a valuable, nonlethal alternative to deadly force in defusing dangerous situations, Wardlaw said, they inflict a "painful and frightening blow" and must be used only when substantial force is necessary and other options are unavailable.
"It's a significant use of force, not like cuffing someone or using pain compliance or pepper spray," said Eugene Iredale, a lawyer for a San Diego-area man who was Tasered by a police officer who had stopped him for not wearing a seat belt. "It's not to be used promiscuously or lightly."
The ruling allows Iredale's client Carl Bryan to go to trial in his damage suit against Brian McPherson, a policeman in Bryan's hometown of Coronado. McPherson's lawyers were unavailable for comment.
(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...
If that's the case, look for upwards of 1000 people per day in this country being electrocuted by taser.
I've seen plenty of non-armed, non-cooperating types be arrested without being beat down or tased. Training helps in addition to hiring cops that can actually handle themselves on the streets.
Going “hands on” often leads to police brutality, severe injuries to both parties, lawsuits and expensive workers comp claims. Once you get into fight mode, it can be very difficult to regain your composure once the suspect is in custody.
Used properly, Tasers quickly subdue suspects and reduce overall injuries. Unfortunately, there are more than a few cases where they were used unnecessarily.
Ok, I support the cops giving the person the option to choose.
“Sir, would you like us to tackle you and potentially doing you permanent physical harm or would you like to be tased?”
Ultimately, if they say you are under arrest, what are they supposed to do? herd you to the police station?
“Sir, would you please follow us in your car to the police station?”
I don’t know what people are thinking, put yourself in the day to day grind that cops have to deal with.
This is one freaking video and doesn’t represent your average cop.
Anyone who owns a gun knows the advantage it gives you is it is a standoff weapon, you don’t have to come into physical contact with the person you are dealing with. If you have to physically contact the person you are risking physical damage to yourself and the person that you are dealing with. Not only that, think of all those videos where the cops have to beat someone in submission?
This is a liberal Lawyer’s wet dream. I can’t believe on this board that there would be so many willing to make liberal dreams happen.
Logically, tasing is safer for the cops and the person being tased.
When ever physical contact is involved, all bets are off.
A situation can quickly escalate.
There was a fat guy that didn’t look like he could even walk fast and it took 5 fit guys to pin this guy down. Later on we found out that his shoulder was dislocated, when did it happen is anyones guess.
No one had a taser.
That's something you'll never get away from. Hence my comments above regarding the problems hiring 24 year old females as street cops. That is a law suit, workers comp claim, tragedy, and or early medical retirement just waiting to happen.
The problem with the article and the order issue is the assumption that tasers are only for an alternative to lethal force.
I beg to differ.
They are also an alternative to physical force.
If so, what do you base that justification on?
I was answering your question.
Cops are NOT my masters.
I don’t think you understand. This ruling came down, because too many cops were tasering people when they shouldn’t have.
Don’t believe me? There is an entire website somewhere that has nothing but videos of people being tased for really minor incidents.
Yes the tasing part of this video is justified.
The part of this video that I find objectionable is when they had him on the ground and everyone was on top of the guy. I don’t think I could breath with four people on my back and one of them kneeing me in the neck.
They messed up once they had the guy under control. The amount of physical force was excessive and not applied well.
Why don’t you watch the video again yourself and consider the alternative. If they killed the guy putting the cuffs on him, it is at least as likely he would have been killed when they tried to wrestle him to the ground without the aid of the taser.
That's some happy horsesh@t you're spewing!
I believe you.
I haven’t said these incidences don’t happen. I said that the order is going to the other extreme. Don’t believe me?
Ask a cop, this will end up endangering many more people and begs the question why do cops even have tasers or stun guns of any kind.
When ever you view the videos though, I ask this question to myself. What is the alternative? Either the cop walks away or some physical intervention.
9 times out of ten, if I watch a video and judge the cop couldn’t just simply ignore the behavior or the person committed a crime then I tend to accept the taser as the best option.
The ones that are truly abusive is some of the videos where the cop asks someone to leave and they say they will leave in just a sec as soon as their wife is out of the bathroom or they are just collecting their things to leave and they are immediately tased. Most of these videos appear to be private security though.
It is a fact, why don’t you go and get yourself tased so you can see for yourself.
It is very temporary, you recover almost instantly.
You know, but if someone is pointing 9mm and tasers at you, you might just want to humor them at least.
New breed of American cop - Greatest Hits:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6I8iUWInds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbltmLBSdmk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWaCD6jIH5Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svMi0rI9GV8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWt9qbQkE9Y
Full-grown “men” frightened of women:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4VysuhvVuM
Pregnant women too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPYW82-Blik
How about this typical needle-d**k cop:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8Dp8jg9BJI
Universal justice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOVku86WfVg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMEqcUIZlSw
There are many of these videos on the internet.
Here’s one YouTube Channel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlPA6q1n4uw&feature=PlayList&p=4E0A9A6F9E52C12A&index=11
I think they tell the real story.
This is the beginning of something awful in this country.
Cops that use these devices are shameful and are doing damage to the respect that good Americans have for good cops.
The overriding issue is that it’s just plain cowardly, aka, chicken-sh*t!
I had LAPD officers tell me after the Rodney King riots that NO it was NOT a good idea to get a taser to protect myself when I was working in skid row area of Los Angeles. They said it is not to be compared with pepper spray and more on a par with a fire arm.
I don’t have to stick my finger in an electrical socket to know it’s going to knock me on my butt and possibly stop my heart or breathing (especially at my age and other health considerations - but then again a cop looking at me may not care about that before administering the harmless little tool eh?).
There definitely needs to be a higher standard than no standard at all, but ask yourself if the circuit’s order is the right one.
You will get no argument from me that they are trigger happy on the taser trigger in these videos. Most cops though aren’t.
A better standard would be that the person isn’t following instructions and there is a reasonable assumption that physical contact would be a danger to the suspect and/or the officer.
I don’t know what the research is on tasering pregnant woman but I would assume that it is less dangerous to restrain the pregnant woman than to tase them. Of course if they had a deadly weapon (Including being at the wheel of a car)the calculus would change.
Remember though, using a taser isn’t just to prevent harm to the officer, it is to prevent harm to the suspect.
So when you classify it as chicken$hit, maybe you should reevaluate some of the videos that you think are an open an shut case of taser abuse.
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