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Gold and Guns (the real Obama boom)
Mises Institute ^ | January 01, 2010 | Doug French

Posted on 01/01/2010 6:22:46 PM PST by sickoflibs

In his extraordinary book Democracy: The God that Failed, Hans Hermann Hoppe points out that the process of civilization is stopped when government continually violates property rights.

The natural process of civilization comes through delaying consumption, saving, and building capital. Undoing it leads to higher societal time preference.

When natural disasters strike or a gunman robs you in an alley, "the effect of these on time preference is temporary and unsystematic," Hoppe explains.

Victims are entitled to defend themselves against the individual aggressor and prepare themselves for the calamities of the occasional act of God. Resources will be reallocated to defend one against potential robbers, and provisions will be made for potential natural disasters.

However, when government aggresses, it is considered legitimate and "a victim may not legitimately defend himself against such violations." Democracy legitimizes this government aggression because the violence is sanctioned by a majority of voters.

This decivilization process that Hoppe describes continues in fits and starts. The uneducated continue to live in never-never land, believing that each new ruler means change and that their lives and happiness can safely be put in the hands of a kind and caring government. But government's current ham-handedness — with its bailouts, money printing, and rights violations — has alerted more than a few individuals to do what comes naturally: defend themselves and prepare for the worst.

The government's legal-tender money — the dollar — is now under questioning. While the commercial-banking fractional-reserve monetary engine is stalled with loan write-downs and bank failures, the Federal Reserve has expanded its balance sheet like never before. Man of the Year Ben Bernanke is deathly afraid of deflation, and John Maynard Keynes is a hero again. The inflation cake is in the oven, albeit not quite fully baked.

And the current administration does not seem friendly to the property right of allowing us to protect ourselves. The president believes that only law-enforcement officers should have weapons.

So while high-time-preference folks like Shannan DeCesare shout "Merry Christmas to me" after unloading some gold jewelry for $610 at a gold party, low-time-preference types are lining up in pawnshops and gun shows to buy gold, silver, lead, and guns.

DeCesare attended a gold party that the Wall Street Journal describes as an example of the new Tupperware party. These parties appeal to the cash-for-gold crowd trying to maintain a boom-time lifestyle by unloading their valuables. The cash poor end up taking between 65 and 75 percent of what their gold would be worth to a refiner according to the WSJ.

These parties offer a comfortable atmosphere for selling the yellow metal. "It can be really difficult for a lot of people to walk into a jewelry store or pawnshop holding a little bag of gold," Lisa Rosenthal, owner of Party of Gold, told the WSJ. Ms. Rosenthal's company has specialists working more than 1,000 parties a month. And why would anyone sell their gold for 65 to 75 cents on the dollar? In his book More Than You Know: Finding Financial Wisdom in Unconventional Places, author Michael J. Mauboussin has a chapter titled, "All I Need to Know I Learned at a Tupperware Party." People buy Tupperware because they feel like they must reciprocate the host for hosting the party and providing the free party favors. Plus, as Mauboussin explains, "the single most important fact of the Tupperware formula is the tendency to say yes to people you like."

In the case of gold parties, attendees don't want to just show up, drink the wine and eat the appetizers but leave turning their noses up at the low prices offered for their, or their departed mother's, old jewelry, especially when it's their friend down the block hosting the event. They happily trade a metal that has proven to have value for thousands of years for the government's depreciating paper.

But while gold sellers are shy to see the nearby pawn dealer, gold buyers go where they must to see who has inventory for sale. The demand for guns is so good that the gun show in Las Vegas recently charged $14 a head just to walk in and look around — after parking cost of $3. The lot was full and business was brisk.

The demand for space at gun ranges in Salt Lake City was strong enough the day after Christmas that it was a 15- to 20-minute wait to rent an "alley" at the second range we inquired with. The first range contacted was reservation only and completely booked for the day.

Panic buying of ammunition, silver, and gold has created shortages and led to price increases for all three in 2009. "Currently no .380 ammunition — I haven't seen any for about four months… .38 special, it's been at least a couple of months," Denver gun-store manager Richard Taylor told CNN earlier this year. "It's just that there's been a huge demand and it's far outweighed supply right now."

And in November, Bloomberg reported that the US Mint had suspended sales of most American Eagle coins made from precious metals, including gold and silver. With coin sales surging 88 percent in the first 10 months of this year, the mint is out of metal and sales will resume "once sufficient inventories of gold-bullion blanks can be acquired to meet market demand," the mint said in a statement posted on its website.

So, some Americans are unloading their family treasures and cheering for bailouts, money printing, and gun control, while others are stocking up on precious metals, guns, and ammo to protect themselves and their wealth.

There is no question which group is the civilized one.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: 2009review; banglist; bhobanglist; bhoeconomy; economy; fourth100days; gold; guns; schifflist
The Peter Schiff/Redistribution Watch Ping. (Washington Bankrupting our Nation by Spending your past, present and future money!)

If you realize both parties in Washington think our money is theirs and you trust them to do the wrong thing, this list is for you.

If you think there is a Santa Claus who is going to get elected in Washington and cut a few taxes and spend a few trillion and jump start the economy, and get our lost money back, this list is not for you.

You can read past posts by clicking on : schifflist , I try to tag all relevant threads with the keyword : schifflist.

Ping list pinged by sickoflibs.

To join the ping list: FReepmail sickoflibs with the subject line add Schifflist.

(Stop getting pings by sending the subject line drop Schifflist.)

1 posted on 01/01/2010 6:22:48 PM PST by sickoflibs
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To: Harrius Magnus; mojitojoe; Pelham; mom2twinsn2; LongLiveTheRepublic; ConservativeOrBust; ...
The Peter Schiff/Redistribution Watch Ping. (Washington Bankrupting our Nation by Spending your past, present and future money!)

So, some Americans are unloading their family treasures and cheering for bailouts, money printing, and gun control, while others are stocking up on precious metals, guns, and ammo to protect themselves and their wealth. There is no question which group is the civilized one.

2 posted on 01/01/2010 6:25:18 PM PST by sickoflibs ( "It's not the taxes, the redistribution is spending you demand stupid")
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To: sickoflibs

Gold, silver, guns, bullets, solar panels, batteries, AV Fuel, generators, portable heating and cooling units, green houses, canning jars, seeds, planter boxes, antibiotics, deep freeze, food vacuum sealers, food food food .... other buying boom items.


3 posted on 01/01/2010 6:36:13 PM PST by GregoTX (When people find they can vote themselves money it will herald the end of the republic. Ben Franklin)
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To: sickoflibs

Funny,
It Comes Down to:
Plata O Plomo


4 posted on 01/01/2010 6:39:28 PM PST by bravotu (Have a Nice Day !)
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To: sickoflibs
12/25/09 the First time I ever received ammunition for Christmas.

In fact, I received a bible and ammunition.

5 posted on 01/01/2010 6:43:06 PM PST by right way right
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To: sickoflibs

Very, very good post. Of course, Republicans are just as big of thieves as Democrats.


6 posted on 01/01/2010 6:48:25 PM PST by FightThePower! (Fight the powers that be!)
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To: sickoflibs

It can be had. Put it on back order with a big store that starts with a C and ends with a abela’s. There are $20.00 off coupons out there that will pay for shipping.


7 posted on 01/01/2010 6:50:00 PM PST by Stentor
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To: right way right

This was the first year where I asked for ammo for Christmas.


8 posted on 01/01/2010 6:50:19 PM PST by NeoCaveman (Hey Ducks, fear the sweater vest)
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To: Stentor

Meant to quote sentence about .380.


9 posted on 01/01/2010 6:51:13 PM PST by Stentor
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To: FightThePower!

I like your thinking. See reply #1.


10 posted on 01/01/2010 6:52:22 PM PST by sickoflibs ( "It's not the taxes, the redistribution is spending you demand stupid")
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To: right way right

“Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition”

When I was a kid back in the late ‘40s, my old man used to sing snatches of this ditty:

Down went the gunner, a bullet was his fate
Down went the gunner, then the gunners mate
Up jumped the sky pilot, gave the boys a look
And manned the gun himself as he laid aside The Book, shouting
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition and we’ll all stay free!

Praise the Lord and swing into position!
Can’t afford to sit around and wishin’
Praise the Lord we’re all between perdition
and the deep blue sea!

Yes the sky pilot said it
You’ve got to give him credit
for a son - of - gun - of - a - gunner was he,
Shouting;
Praise the Lord we’re on a mighty mission!
All aboard, we’re not a - goin’ fishin;
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition and we’ll all stay free!


11 posted on 01/01/2010 7:07:14 PM PST by headsonpikes (Genocide is the highest sacrament of socialism - "Who-whom?")
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To: Stentor

How many rounds of .380 should a normal person expect to use during the next five years, say?


12 posted on 01/01/2010 7:09:05 PM PST by Misterioso (To deal with men by force is as impractical as to deal with nature by persuasion. -- Ayn Rand)
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To: headsonpikes

Ah yes, I found it for you.

Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf3gKtdb2cE


13 posted on 01/01/2010 7:12:06 PM PST by right way right
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To: right way right
12/25/09 the First time I ever received ammunition for Christmas.

__________________________________________

Same here, not counting my first box of 22LR in 1965.

14 posted on 01/01/2010 7:15:26 PM PST by wtc911 ("How you gonna get down that hill?")
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To: sickoflibs; Just Lori; blam

Pretty good post, but I really hope more people realize that they cannot eat those Kruggerands no matter how good of a deal you can get for them. If you can cash in some of Grandma’s old gold jewelry and buy dry goods, ammo and weapons then perhaps you are on the right track.

Newsweek just did an extensive article on “preppers” and it was following along these same lines as far as what people are quietly doing our there in suburbia. Ammunition of any caliber is going to be the hard currency of choice when the Dollar finally collapses and plenty of people are quite cognizant of that fact, hence the shortage of ammo for well over the past year.

I realize that the current trend is to plan on riding the “bow wave” out of town to some sort of armed hideaway out in the boonies in Montana somewhere, but plenty of people are prepared to stay put and ride things out in place. I live in an area with a high concentration of Mormons, and not only are they prepared to hack it for a year on their own, they will also fight to defend what they value and cherish.

Heading for the hills is not always the best option.

TEOTWAWKI *ping*


15 posted on 01/01/2010 7:20:33 PM PST by Bean Counter (Stout Hearts....)
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To: Bean Counter
I was a good boy last year ... Santa was extra nice.


16 posted on 01/01/2010 7:26:58 PM PST by CapnJack
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To: Bean Counter
Got 300 more rounds of 380 ammo yesterday...always a good day when you get ammo, guns or gold.

BTW, bring me your Krugerrands and I'll give you some of my food for them.

17 posted on 01/01/2010 7:30:24 PM PST by blam
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To: bravotu

You [and others] are one of many reasons I return to Free Republic: I learn.

Looked up plata o plomo and got new information:

http://www.hbs.edu/research/facpubs/workingpapers/papers2/0203/03-060.pdf


18 posted on 01/01/2010 7:30:42 PM PST by Bhoy
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To: Misterioso
How many rounds of .380 should a normal person expect to use during the next five years, say?

Don't know about "normal". Over five years, I'm on a pace of about 3000 rounds of FMJ and 800 odd JHP. Should shoot it more but I'm not rich. Just trying to make sure my trusty daily companion sends things in the right direction without breaking the bank.

19 posted on 01/01/2010 7:40:34 PM PST by Stentor
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To: Bean Counter
Pretty good post, but I really hope more people realize that they cannot eat those Kruggerands no matter how good of a deal you can get for them.

Can you point to one time in recorded history, over the last 4000 years, when someone with gold in his hand went hungry? (A war where the person was a POW doesn't count.)

20 posted on 01/01/2010 8:20:39 PM PST by ikka
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To: Misterioso

Till the Barrel Melts,


21 posted on 01/01/2010 8:42:56 PM PST by bravotu (Have a Nice Day !)
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To: ikka

Same with Lead,too.


22 posted on 01/01/2010 8:45:57 PM PST by bravotu (Have a Nice Day !)
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To: ikka

King Midas?


23 posted on 01/01/2010 9:14:54 PM PST by tumblindice
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To: headsonpikes

I think too many people in both political rear ends, er, parties, are panicking, but that’s a good old song.

Praise The Lord & Pass The Ammunition - Harry Kaye
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf3gKtdb2cE


24 posted on 01/01/2010 9:48:51 PM PST by familyop (cbt. engr. (cbt), NG, '89-' 96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote.)
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To: headsonpikes

...and by another orchestra.

KAY KYSER ‘PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE AMMUNITION’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr1JEDWs37Q


25 posted on 01/01/2010 9:50:51 PM PST by familyop (cbt. engr. (cbt), NG, '89-' 96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote.)
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To: Bean Counter
"If you can cash in some of Grandma’s old gold jewelry and buy dry goods, ammo and weapons then perhaps you are on the right track."

That's what the young Democrats in my area have been doing for a couple of years, according to them (coworkers in construction, greenies, and the like). I only stock-up for the yearly big storms, road closings and to avoid frequent, long trips for groceries (middle of nowhere here). The young liberals said that they're stocking up for economic disaster and/or societal breakdown. They have houses on their own paid-off places, outdoor boilers, radiant heat, generators, PV systems, guard dogs, food stores, backup tools, and from what they've said, lots of firearms and ammo. They gave various reasons for voting for Obama (parents, wives, don't want to be like their Baby Boomer mothers, etc.), but some of them also expressed a dislike for globalism and declining numbers of jobs.


26 posted on 01/01/2010 10:20:55 PM PST by familyop (cbt. engr. (cbt), NG, '89-' 96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote.)
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To: Misterioso
Normal covers a pretty broad range. Get reloading stuff and reload your brass. .380 brass can be loaded quite a few times (dozens). you can buy .355 copper jacketed bullets for about $120/1000 and .356 lead for $60/1000.

If you cast your own it's cheaper Do you have a .380 or thinking about getting one?

27 posted on 01/01/2010 10:43:28 PM PST by Eagles6 ( Typical White Guy: Christian, Constitutionalist, Heterosexual, Redneck. (Let them eat arugula!))
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To: Eagles6

I have a Browning I bought in 1963. But the question is a little tongue-in-cheek. I have maybe 100 varied factory rounds. Don’t get a chance to shoot anymore, but I ought to. As I ponder the need for self-defense during the coming meltdown, I think the ammo I’ve got is plenty. This goes for my two other handguns, as well. I don’t expect to use very much of it mainly because I am going to be careful. The only reason to reload is if I were going to be at the range all the time. Oh, and I’m pushing 75.


28 posted on 01/02/2010 12:43:55 AM PST by Misterioso (To deal with men by force is as impractical as to deal with nature by persuasion. -- Ayn Rand)
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To: Misterioso

Use? For target practice. At least 100 rounds a month.For self defense , hopefully none . For future reference, at least 2000 rounds because of the possibility of AMMUNITION restrictions imposed by the Government .


29 posted on 01/02/2010 3:36:58 AM PST by Renegade (You go tell my buddies)
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To: sickoflibs

Gold and silver have taken a breather to throw off the short-term speculators. For those interested, all the technical indicators say this territory is approaching a very good price point to buy, as PM’s will be headed back north very shortly with a new head of steam.


30 posted on 01/02/2010 5:28:29 AM PST by webschooner
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To: GregoTX

What is AV fuel?


31 posted on 01/02/2010 6:01:47 AM PST by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival.)
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To: ikka

You are absolutely correct.

There is confusion out there regarding the value of gold in emergency situations.

People need to bear in mind that there are many types of emergency situations. People who talk about not being able to eat gold are confusing the last two scenarios.

The difference between the last two scenarios is that in the second to last, there is still a means of bartering to acquire that which you need and it is a barter system that still maintains hope that we will return to the civilized society that we are now enjoying. The last stage of the emergency scenario is that all means of production and transportation are shut down, barter is almost nil, and there is no hope of returning to something like our current civilization.

In the second-to-last scenario, people will still take gold in exchange for necessities (food, etc.) because they are gambling on having gold that they can convert back into currency at a profit. In the last-case scenario, gold is in fact fairly worthless. Now, they are wrong in that the history of human civilization as far as monetary science is concerned indicates a continual respect for “something” that holds value. Right now, gold and silver fit that bill.

As I tell people, stock up on all of the essentials that you’ll for as long as possible (one year is a good goal). Also, try to have a bug-out plan at a remote destination. But also stock up on items that you can barter (a case of Jim Beam, ammo, precious metals, tools, etc.).


32 posted on 01/02/2010 6:09:53 AM PST by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival.)
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To: ikka

I forgot to add that in the last-case scenario, such estimations are usually short-sighted. People who dump their barter items do so because they are only looking at the near future. Personally, I believe that even in the last-case scenario, civilization will bounce back. Our monetary system is one of the chief reasons as to why we have become so advanced. Humanity will not give that up.


33 posted on 01/02/2010 6:11:50 AM PST by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival.)
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To: sickoflibs

It sounds as though Hoppe’s theory is an echo of Alexander Fraser Tytler’s, who said, to paraphrase, that all democracies are doomed to fail because the people, once they realize they can vote themselves financial gifts from the common repository, will do so until their nations fail economically.


34 posted on 01/02/2010 6:33:08 AM PST by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival.)
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe

The last destination for people during a crisis is a “remote location,” unless you know what you’re doing. And should you think that you can live there and survive by hunting and fishing, 10,000 other people will be thinking the same. It will truly be amateur hour 24 hours a day.

Better to find a small Christian community with folks who believe in the Constitution and 2nd amendment. This will provide better security for you and your family amongst like-minded people.


35 posted on 01/02/2010 6:40:30 AM PST by sergeantdave
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To: Misterioso
I wouldn't worry about your age, probably means you're retired with more time to indulge your hobbies. .380 and revolver ammo is just so expensive now, you can get basic stuff for about the cost of 3-4 boxes of ammo.

My opinion is that ammo will be one of the hard currencies after "commander zero" brings about his planned collapse of the US.

36 posted on 01/02/2010 6:40:48 AM PST by Eagles6 ( Typical White Guy: Christian, Constitutionalist, Heterosexual, Redneck. (Let them eat arugula!))
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe
What is AV fuel?

Aviation fuel. You can store it much much longer than regular gasoline without adding and stabilizers. It will run a generator a little hotter, but not by much.

37 posted on 01/02/2010 6:45:28 AM PST by GregoTX (When people find they can vote themselves money it will herald the end of the republic. Ben Franklin)
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To: sergeantdave

I agree with that approach.

However, if it gets to the last stage, hoards of those “amateurs” will organize and overrun those small Christian communities. That Christian community will have to comprise a small army in order to survive.

Meanwhile, if you live in the suburbs or in developments, if you have a supply and stay-put, expect to have to shoot a lot of people on your front lawn. My point is that, if possible, better to relocate until the storm blows over you know which group to join up with.


38 posted on 01/02/2010 6:48:11 AM PST by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival.)
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To: GregoTX

Can you run an auto on it? Also, how about a kerosene heater and Coleman stove and lantern if they are duel fuel?


39 posted on 01/02/2010 6:57:22 AM PST by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival.)
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To: GregoTX
Just a note about AV fuel... there are plenty of cheap stabilizers / additives that are designed to increase the length of time you can store diesel and gas.

Gas has the problem of being a mix of different fluids, some of which evaporate more quickly.

Diesel has the problem of water contamination and that algae can grow in it, causing all kinds of issues. "Stabil" and Marvel Mystery Oil are two additives that come to mind... might be cheaper to learn how to properly store fuel than worry about AV fuel.

40 posted on 01/02/2010 6:58:39 AM PST by ikka
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe

“That Christian community will have to comprise a small army in order to survive.”

That’s the idea. The small Christian community I moved to has 100,000 souls, including many veterans. There’s more churches than hamburger joints and doughnut shops combined. They’re protected on the flanks by smaller rural Christian communities, all well armed. Plus the state has a real state organized militia paid for and equipped by the state, thus beyond the reach of a takeover by the federal government. The militia can place heavy firepower on the field if need be. And let’s not forget all the goodies available at the federal armories.


41 posted on 01/02/2010 7:25:00 AM PST by sergeantdave
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To: right way right

I hope you thanked that person for their wise and generous Christmas spirit...


42 posted on 01/02/2010 8:31:28 AM PST by stevie_d_64 (I'm jus sayin')
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