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Calif. Pastor Takes in $2.4M After Donations Plea [That Many Fools in CA?]
NYTimes ^ | January 02nd 2010

Posted on 01/02/2010 8:37:35 PM PST by Steelfish

Calif. Pastor Takes in $2.4M After Donations Plea

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Published: January 2, 2010

LAKE FOREST, Calif. (AP) -- Evangelical pastor Rick Warren's plea for donations to fill a $900,000 deficit at his Southern California megachurch brought in $2.4 million, Warren announced to cheers during a sermon at the church on Saturday.

Warren said the amount raised after the appeal was posted online Wednesday included only money parishioners brought in person to Saddleback Church by New Year's Eve. More was arriving by hand and by mail, he said.

''This is pretty amazing,'' Warren told his congregation. ''I don't think any church has gotten a cash offering like that off a letter.''

The pastor said he planned to talk further about the response in a Sunday sermon called ''The Miracle.''

''We're starting the new decade with a surplus,'' he said. ''It came from thousands of ordinary people. This was not one big fat cat.''

The posting on Warren's Web site read: ''With 10 percent of our church family out of work due to the recession, our expenses in caring for our community in 2009 rose dramatically while our income stagnated.''

Warren said the church had largely managed to stay within its budget during the year, but ''the bottom dropped out'' when Christmas donations were down.

The letter cited the church's accomplishments in 2009 and detailed how the donations would be used, including the church's food pantry, homeless ministry, counseling and support groups.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: rickwarren; saddleback
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1 posted on 01/02/2010 8:37:36 PM PST by Steelfish
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To: Steelfish
This was not one big fat cat.

Except for the guy on the receiving end, of course.

2 posted on 01/02/2010 8:40:22 PM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Conservatives unite behind conservative Republicans in the primaries!)
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To: Steelfish
This guy (Warren) could have buried Obama after the live ‘debate’ with McCain. NO ONE took advantage of Obama’s missteps and HUGE mistakes in answers. This guy has partial responsibility for the wasteland that this President is creating.
3 posted on 01/02/2010 8:41:45 PM PST by originalbuckeye
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To: Steelfish
Evangelical pastor Rick Warren's plea for donations to fill a $900,000 deficit at his Southern California megachurch brought in $2.4 million, Warren announced to cheers during a sermon at the church on Saturday.

Man, I hope there is something wrong with this paragraph...

4 posted on 01/02/2010 8:41:57 PM PST by dragnet2
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To: Steelfish

Cue the “Rick Warren is the devil” crowd in 3...2...1...


5 posted on 01/02/2010 8:43:15 PM PST by SandyInSeattle (Socialism is the plundering of the productive by the unaccountable)
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To: Steelfish
And these will be the first to burn in hell. When your religious path requires this amount of earthly quan, then you know “God's work” is not what you are accomplishing. There is no difference between large government budgets and large church budgets. It's all corrupt.
6 posted on 01/02/2010 8:50:51 PM PST by carolinacrazy (Bow to your sensei.... BOW TO YOUR SENSEI...... www.jackassdemocrats.com)
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To: SandyInSeattle

No, just a fraud.


7 posted on 01/02/2010 8:51:00 PM PST by bwc2221
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To: bwc2221

“Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people. “ ... P.T. Barnum.


8 posted on 01/02/2010 8:58:22 PM PST by Oztrich Boy (Life is a tragedy for those who feel, but a comedy to those who think. - Horace Walpole)
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To: originalbuckeye
This guy (Warren) could have buried Obama after the live ‘debate’ with McCain. NO ONE took advantage of Obama’s missteps and HUGE mistakes in answers. This guy has partial responsibility for the wasteland that this President is creating.

I didn't watch it. I thought he was hosting it and just trying to be fair. Do you think it gave Obama a Christian appearance? That would have been fraudulent.
9 posted on 01/02/2010 9:04:24 PM PST by RushingWater
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

Saddleback Church with its 5 campuses in Southern California may have overextended its growth. This $2.4 million installment may be the beginning of more to come. The economy we enjoyed during the Bush years brought into being the mega churches. Whether these churches survive will be one to watch. Such churches need a good economy to operate. Can they downsize and survive is the question to ask.


10 posted on 01/02/2010 9:10:12 PM PST by jonrick46 (We're being water boarded with the sewage of Marxism.)
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To: RushingWater
Obama really embarrassed himself. It could have sunk his Presidential ambitions. Big Media didn't cover it and Warren didn't promote it. This is the ‘live’ appearance where Obama said that deciding when Life begins was ‘above his paygrade’. What a complete phony. It SHOULD have tanked him and exposed him for the poseur that he is.
11 posted on 01/02/2010 9:12:37 PM PST by originalbuckeye
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To: Steelfish

Rick Warren’s ‘The Purpose-Driven Life’ ... Since 2002 it has sold more than 30 million copies worldwide

Where did that money go?


12 posted on 01/02/2010 9:19:15 PM PST by kcvl
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

I realize that you don’t count Rick Warren among those you admire.

However, it should be pointed out that Saddleback ministers to a large number of people, and many of those are out of work and in need. The church experienced a shortfall in offerings, and this is what prompted the original request by Warren.

He, BTW, takes no money from the church.


13 posted on 01/02/2010 9:19:40 PM PST by norge (The amiable dunce is back, wearing a skirt and high heels.)
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To: Steelfish

I used to attend a mega-church in the 90’s. After awhile the services felt like a big production, TV cameras everywhere and tons of announcements. With that said however credit American christians for being good and generous givers. I prefer to donate charitable giving mostly to missions where it is desperately needed rather than supporting overblown mega buildings and expensive growth projects.


14 posted on 01/02/2010 9:20:50 PM PST by tflabo
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To: Steelfish

Whew... I gotta get into the religion business.


15 posted on 01/02/2010 9:21:21 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: kcvl
Where did that money go?

Drugs and whores?
That seems to be the pattern with these "religion" tycoons.

16 posted on 01/02/2010 9:23:29 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: norge

Why doesn’t he donate it from his own pocket? He’s got it.

Another fraud.


17 posted on 01/02/2010 9:26:25 PM PST by Round 9
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To: bwc2221

i dont believe he is a fraud. dont know why all the hate for this man he has done alot of good in this world. brought alot of people to Christ.


18 posted on 01/02/2010 9:28:44 PM PST by remaxagnt (`)
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To: kcvl

rick warren donated all that money towards solving aids problem in africa


19 posted on 01/02/2010 9:29:50 PM PST by remaxagnt (`)
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To: Round 9; kcvl; Lancey Howard

Rick Warren paid back Saddleback Church every dollar they paid him in salary after his 24th year. He now takes no salary from the church. Saddleback is coming up on its 30th anniversary.

He and his wife determined that their living standards would not change as the result of the book sales.

The Warrens “reverse tithe”. In other words, he lives on 10% of his income and tithes 90.

The 90% of proceeds from the book go to three foundations set up by the Warrens...they get nothing from those foundations.

To date his book has sold 52 million copies.


20 posted on 01/02/2010 9:44:13 PM PST by norge (The amiable dunce is back, wearing a skirt and high heels.)
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To: Steelfish

[That Many Fools in CA?]

Yes


21 posted on 01/02/2010 9:48:49 PM PST by roylll
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To: originalbuckeye

I agree with you. I had a middling respect for him prior to the election and basically benign now.


22 posted on 01/02/2010 9:52:51 PM PST by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
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To: norge

Rick Warren = Charlatan. Of course, the Church’s financial ledger cannot be shared with the public.


23 posted on 01/02/2010 9:55:15 PM PST by Herodes
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To: Herodes

Of course, the Church’s financial ledger cannot be shared with the public.

Oh, really. And you know that...how???

24 posted on 01/02/2010 9:57:57 PM PST by norge (The amiable dunce is back, wearing a skirt and high heels.)
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To: Steelfish

This is the “religion” that keeps its financial records a secret. I’m amazed that sheep can be so stupid as to give their money without knowing the detailed budget. It’s crass and crooked. Oral Roberts, Jim Bakker and Jim Jones would be proud.


25 posted on 01/02/2010 10:01:33 PM PST by LouAvul
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To: originalbuckeye
It SHOULD have tanked him and exposed him for the poseur that he is.

Yes but that was up to the McCain campaign, not Rick Warren. He asked the question, but the McCainiacs were too supine to exploit the answer.

26 posted on 01/02/2010 10:13:28 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: LouAvul

You couldn’t be more wrong.

The church’s articles allow all members (and I don’t know how many there are...but there are several thousand) to vote on the church’s budget.

There may be a large contingent of “sheep” at Saddleback, but there are also a bunch of pretty bright people, including journalist, lawyer and author Lee Strobel.


27 posted on 01/02/2010 10:18:57 PM PST by norge (The amiable dunce is back, wearing a skirt and high heels.)
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To: Steelfish

Stupid people


28 posted on 01/02/2010 10:28:18 PM PST by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life is tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: Steelfish

*shakeshead*

Jim Baker would be proud..... =.=


29 posted on 01/02/2010 10:29:43 PM PST by cranked
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To: Steelfish

"Here ya' go, Haffez...."
30 posted on 01/02/2010 10:30:38 PM PST by onedoug
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To: jonrick46

Whether these churches survive will be one to watch. Such churches need a good economy to operate. Can they downsize and survive is the question to ask.<<<<<<<<<<<<<

In a town nearby, a large church took over an entire golf course property, paved it over, and built a giant church with a huge parking lot. I frankly preferred the golf course for a community asset.

I assume the golf course was municipal property, which they no doubt sold. I wonder what taxes are collected from the church for the property, assuming churches pay property taxes.


31 posted on 01/02/2010 10:39:51 PM PST by Mjaye
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To: remaxagnt

Ditto, most of the naysayers on this board, could not organize a beer concession for a Sunday School Picnic, yet they set themselves up to judge everyone.


32 posted on 01/02/2010 10:43:11 PM PST by BooBoo1000
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To: norge

“Rick Warren paid back Saddleback Church every dollar they paid him in salary after his 24th year. He now takes no salary from the church. Saddleback is coming up on its 30th anniversary.

He and his wife determined that their living standards would not change as the result of the book sales.

The Warrens “reverse tithe”. In other words, he lives on 10% of his income and tithes 90.

The 90% of proceeds from the book go to three foundations set up by the Warrens...they get nothing from those foundations.

To date his book has sold 52 million copies.”

Those facts and figures refute the ignorant charges made in this thread.

Other big churches in or near Orange County:

Crystal Cathedral (Robert Shuller)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Cathedral

Calvary Chapel (Chuck Smith)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvary_chapel

Harvest Crusade (Rick Laurie)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvary_chapel

I’m sure fault can be found with them, too.


33 posted on 01/02/2010 11:13:21 PM PST by truth_seeker
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To: Mjaye

The churches pay no property taxes. I think it is one way to acquire lots of property, pay no taxes and, upon retirement, have a valuable asset to sell off.


34 posted on 01/02/2010 11:58:31 PM PST by jonrick46 (We're being water boarded with the sewage of Marxism.)
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To: originalbuckeye
...when Life begins was 'above his paygrade'.

What an asinine reply! As we've seen since, with an upgrade in salary Obama was gifted with the wisdom he lacked before the money? We already knew he approved of abortion up to when a child was due to be born. Call him deceptive, for one, and lots more.

I don't know when he thinks life begins and I frankly don't believe he gives a damn. Conception? The day before a baby would naturally be born? Even after the baby is born due to a botched abortion?

This huge mistake occupying the WH is amoral and I have a hard time believing that true Americans have no way of ousting him.

35 posted on 01/03/2010 12:56:06 AM PST by IIntense
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To: Lancey Howard
Whew...I gotta get into the religion business.

Bone up on the ones bringing in the big bucks and copy them. LOL

36 posted on 01/03/2010 1:02:58 AM PST by IIntense
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To: Steelfish; Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

He’s not my cup of tea.

But as others have noted, he doesn’t take a salary, returned every cent of salary he ever made, and gives away 90 percent of his income. So the shortfall isn’t about him.

A large church has a large cost, maintaining a large campus, and usually a large salaried staff. The flip side of that is that they usually have money to take on projects smaller churches can’t. When you join a church, the work they do there is your work, their problems are your problems. If there is a shortfall, its your shortfall.

You don’t look for a fatcat, especially when your local fatcat is already giving most of his earnings. You’re a member, you have a responsibility. And in this case, the $900 thousand isn’t that large a percent of their budget, and it isn’t that much per member. They can do it, they just needed to know they needed to do it.

I didn’t care for the book, it again wasn’t my cup of tea. But a lot of churches have shortfalls this year, and a larger church with larger costs and larger ministries is going to have to either cut back or step up. It looks like they’ve decided to step up.


37 posted on 01/03/2010 2:16:41 AM PST by marron
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To: onedoug


"Here ya' go, Haffez...."

He's just being, um... uh... "neo-biblical." Yeah, that's the ticket -- a Neo-Biblical mano-d-kloth. He's simply building on Paul's riff -- that business about being "a Greek with the Greeks, and a Jew with the Jews" has now been improved by the simple addition of "and a Muslim with the Muslims."

You can't get more neo-biblical than that! ;)

38 posted on 01/03/2010 2:32:10 AM PST by Don Joe ([expletive deleted])
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To: SandyInSeattle

Cue the “Rick Warren is the devil” crowd in 3...2...1...

Don't be silly. The devil is "a man of wealth and taste."

I'd say Mr. Hawaiian Shirt has NO worries in that department!

39 posted on 01/03/2010 2:34:58 AM PST by Don Joe ([expletive deleted])
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To: truth_seeker

The Warrens “reverse tithe”. In other words, he lives on 10% of his income and tithes 90.

The 90% of proceeds from the book go to three foundations set up by the Warrens..
...
To date his book has sold 52 million copies.


Ah, math... fun!

Lessee... the last book contract I signed... bear with me, it's been a while, and I've been disabled for some years now, so I'm a tad rusty, but as I recall, the author's royalty came to something like three bucks per book sold. Now, it 'twern't a "spiritual" title (unless one worships his computer -- which, being a PC-owner, I don't), but, it was a fairly mainstream house (Addison-Wesley), so I'm guessing the numbers can't be THAT out of line.

Well, anyway, if we use $3/book as a starting point, and we multiply that by, hmm... fifty two million copies sold -- and then we deduct NINETY PERCENT (at the same time throwing out the window all that "Jesus-stuff" about NOT trumpeting your generosity -- and, that business about such folk "having their reward" in that low estate), we come to the pauperseque sum of a mere $15,600,000.

Good Lord, I see your point. How that poor man manages to scrape by on the piddling amount of $15,600,000 is beyond my comprehension. Perhaps the birds are feeding him too? Oh, wait -- that only works for REAL prophets, doesn't it.

Well, regardless, he MUST be managing somehow to live day-to-day on that trivially pathetic sum of $15,600,000, right? For that, we can only admire him. Or something.

PS: I'm assuming (stupidly) that that MERE $15,600,000 is his sole source of revenue, i.e., he has NO other income, derives NO interest or return on investment on that money (meaning he keeps it in non-interest bearing accounts, which any Muslim bank ought to be able to provide him), and so forth.

Otherwise, my guestimate would need to be revised, and as the old saying goes, frankly, my dear, I don't...

40 posted on 01/03/2010 2:54:46 AM PST by Don Joe ([expletive deleted])
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To: LouAvul

It’s a Southern Baptist Church. The records are open to the members of the church. If you had actually read why they were in a shortfall this year you would see why there was a budgetary shortfall. This letter was sent to the members so that the church’s financial obligations can be met. This type of thing is not unusual in SBC churches. The response by the members isn’t unusual either.


41 posted on 01/03/2010 5:58:56 AM PST by CajunConservative (Obama, You Lie!)
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To: hinckley buzzard
The McCain campaign was neutered by political correctness. We should never again let Big Media pick our candidate. They will always pick out a loser for our side. Big Media won the WH for Zero by hiding the truth about him. And McCain rolled over like the puppy he now is.
42 posted on 01/03/2010 6:52:55 AM PST by originalbuckeye
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To: norge
This was already discussed.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2418205/posts

The original article said that the church does not release finanicial records. That means the members can vote on whatever budget they want, but have no way to verify.

It's a scam.

43 posted on 01/03/2010 7:08:33 AM PST by LouAvul
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To: CajunConservative
The records are open to the members of the church.

No they aren't.

This is the original article and it says that the church does not release finanicial records. That means the members can vote on whatever budget they want, but have no way to verify.

It's a scam.

44 posted on 01/03/2010 7:12:10 AM PST by LouAvul
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To: LouAvul

They aren’t released to the public which is not the same as the members knowing the finances of the church. I’ve been a Southern Baptist all of my life and know how they operate.


45 posted on 01/03/2010 7:18:42 AM PST by CajunConservative (Obama, You Lie!)
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To: CajunConservative
Are you a member of saddleback? Can you prove the members have access to all the financial records?

Prove it.

46 posted on 01/03/2010 7:46:30 AM PST by LouAvul
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To: LouAvul

Of course not, but having been a member of various sized SBC churches in several states, I KNOW how they operate. Only *members* know what the church’s finances are. I gather you’ve never been to a business meeting in a SBC church?

Here’s a different article from the OC Register which has a whole lot more detail about the issue than the other “original” article.

http://www.ocregister.com/news/church-226694-warren-christmas.html


47 posted on 01/03/2010 8:00:21 AM PST by CajunConservative (Obama, You Lie!)
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To: CajunConservative
Just because SaddleBack is a Southern Baptist Church doesn’t mean that financial records are open to members. Most large SBC churches have a financial manger. Just try to see Bellevue Baptist Memphis's books.
48 posted on 01/03/2010 8:24:44 AM PST by Coldwater Creek ("When you strike one American, you strike us all" ( President George W. Bush))
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To: Steelfish
Your hatred is showing.

Saddleback church members raised the money to help our church take care of the needs of the less fortunate, and people who are hurting.

We helped over 4000 family's in our church who had fallen on hard times in 2009.

We help our church family, we raised that money to help the 400 ministries that provide help.

Rick didn't ask you or anyone else that wasn't a member to give.

“Envy of another man's calling can work havoc in our own.”

49 posted on 01/03/2010 8:29:35 AM PST by troy McClure
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

While I have some problems with some of what he does, I don’t think Warren takes a salary from the church and gives away a very significant percentage of this book royalties. It is my understanding that he lives in a pretty modest home and has for many years.


50 posted on 01/03/2010 8:31:10 AM PST by SeaHawkFan
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