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To: rxsid
“However, as to the “Doctor” signing it. Wasn't it determined that the same person signed both boxes, 18 and 19a? If that is true, then whomever signed the “application”, also signed the “Dr's” name as well. If that's true, then of course no Dr. signed certifying a live birth at a foreign hospital.”

I strenuously dispute the contention that the same person signed on 18a and 19a, staring with the capital Ms and then the 8s in the date.

Here is my response to Charlton refuting his claim that an MD signed in 19a, and note that his subsequent response offered no contradiction to my point but rather only encouraged further citizen journalism:

January 11, 2010 at 12:53 PM

Mr. Charlton: When I look at the Blaine document, I see no certifying signature by a “Doctor” in field 19a “Signature of Attendant” as you claimed at the time, but only the signature of a person designated “Other” and specifically _not_ designated as MD.

While it is true that an MD wouldn't honestly sign as an attendant if they weren't there, a person that accompanied Grandma to the office of the local registrar to “witness” that a Kenya birth in an unknown hospital had been reported to Grandma might well have signed it.

It might be that the policy and procedures for the local registrar mandated putting the declared city of residence as “Location of Birth” in field 6a for out-of-state births allowed under HI Law 57, and for a “witness” to sign as a second person with “knowledge of the birth” to attest on line 19a “Attendant” in the case of a late, out-of-state birth report.

I don't think that the actual attendant at an out-of-state birth be expected to show up at the local registrar's office in HI to sign a late certificate of birth, but a second person with knowledge of the birth could well have been instructed to sign on that line as “Other.”

I strongly suggest that you, Leo D’Donofrio and John Hemenway take another look at the Blaine BC. I am disappointed to hear that Blaine won’t make the provenance of the original available so far. Again, it maps to the Factcheck COLB and allows Fukino to say that the Location of Birth on the HI vital record says “Honolulu” without mentioning that it also says that the hospital was “Unknown – Kenya, Africa”.

130 posted on 01/11/2010 11:25:47 AM PST by Seizethecarp
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To: Seizethecarp
I don't think that the actual attendant at an out-of-state birth be expected to show up at the local registrar's office in HI to sign a late certificate of birth, but a second person with knowledge of the birth could well have been instructed to sign on that line as “Other.”

unbelievable he didn't grasp that!

131 posted on 01/11/2010 11:53:33 AM PST by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: Seizethecarp
"I don't think that the actual attendant at an out-of-state birth be expected to show up at the local registrar's office in HI to sign a late certificate of birth, but a second person with knowledge of the birth could well have been instructed to sign on that line as “Other.”"

That would be unreasonable to expect the actual out-of-state attendant to appear locally and sign the late cert. So yeah, it's completely possible and reasonable that someone else signed it as other.

132 posted on 01/11/2010 11:56:27 AM PST by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: Seizethecarp
"I strenuously dispute the contention that the same person signed on 18a and 19a, staring with the capital Ms and then the 8s in the date."

I have no formal handwriting analysis training and am certainly not disagreeing with your judgement that the signatures were entered by two different persons. The differences in the 'M's and the '8's are, indeed, very obvious. However, I believe it can also be stated that the two signatures perhaps have areas of "similarity" in their general style,letter slant,letter closure properties, etc. Thus, there at least exists the possibility that both signatures were entered by the same person.

What are the ramifications if the same person, presumably Grandma, did in fact sign in both box 18a (as Madelyn Payne Dunham) and box 19a (as Martin Blaine E-?-n). Would this mean that the document must be declared bogus? I don't think we could conclude this!

It's my general impression that virtually all the major players involved in this entire mess, including Grandma, were very adept at "gaming" the system. We have no way of knowing what really transpired 50 or so years ago when the Blaine COLB application document was submitted. I assume conditions in the government records offices at that time were rather disorganized. Hawaii had only been a state for a few years. Perhaps Grandma couldn't or didn't wish to involve another live person as "witness" in this Kenyan-birth, mixed-race matter. Maybe she chose to just forge the name given in box 19a and submit the document herself to the local registrar! Who could now truthfully say that this could not have happened?

Thus, even if the same person signed on 18a and 19a, I believe the document could still be authentic.

137 posted on 01/12/2010 6:37:55 AM PST by WhizCodger (Katie - Bar the door, then text my reply of "F U" to the NWO!)
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