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The Fall of the American Empire
1/08/10 | ReaganCaesar

Posted on 01/08/2010 7:06:11 PM PST by ReaganCaesar

I fear that this is the fall of the American empire. The way this echoes the fall of the Roman Empire is far too eerie. Decadence abounds. Everybody remembers that the fall of the Roman Empire entailed mass decadence and moral decay. The power of Rome dissipated through a lack of discipline, and an abandonment of the values that put Rome at the paragon of civilization. It was often said that during the decline of the Roman Empire, Romans refused to believe in their gods. The parallels with American society in 2010 are undeniable. America is obviously undergoing a similar secularization of its culture, along with a complete decay of its moral values and discipline. Anyone to whom this is not completely obvious has no brain. I am just so sorry that I'm a part of the generation that allowed the American Empire to fall. However, it is also a well-known fact that, throughout history, there haven't been many times when a dying culture has experienced a resurgence. We are not dead yet, but we need to rally. God bless America!


TOPICS: Politics
KEYWORDS: american; empire

1 posted on 01/08/2010 7:06:12 PM PST by ReaganCaesar
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To: ReaganCaesar

I guess Europe could be the old Turkey taken over by the barbarian Muslims.


2 posted on 01/08/2010 7:17:38 PM PST by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards,com)
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To: ReaganCaesar

America is no more. She is like an used whore.


3 posted on 01/08/2010 7:19:28 PM PST by MinorityRepublican
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To: ReaganCaesar

We Christians are called to be the salt that keeps societal decay at bay. We are called to be the light, witnessing to Jesus, the Light of the World. Each of us can do that in our own lives each day, and God will bless our families. Families are the foundation of the nation.
“It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in man. It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in princes.” Psalm 118:8,9.


4 posted on 01/08/2010 7:20:27 PM PST by kittymyrib
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To: GeronL

How so?


5 posted on 01/08/2010 7:27:17 PM PST by ReaganCaesar
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To: ReaganCaesar

And whose fault is it? No one is at fault but ourselves. Every single representative (with a few appointed exceptions) was elected by a majority of the American people. Either in their district, their state and in the case of Obambi, a majority of the country. When a RINO like John McCain is the only alternative to Obambi, there is really no alternative at all. The only difference is that McCain would handle the war on terror a bit differently, but domestically, we would be in the same boat with McCain at the helm. In his great desire to be loved by the Democrats, John McCain would not dare stop healthcare from passing.

America is going through a correction under leadership she well deserves since she voted for it.


6 posted on 01/08/2010 7:33:27 PM PST by Bad Jack Bauer (Fat and Bald? I was BORN fat and bald, thank you very much!)
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To: kittymyrib

Beautiful passage, my friend, beautiful passage.


7 posted on 01/08/2010 7:41:13 PM PST by ReaganCaesar
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To: ReaganCaesar

The US is not an empire, and never has been (unless you consider it an empire of ideas). We certainly have significant influence around the world, and can project military power better than anyone. Rome did all this as well, but the US doesn’t hold on to countries we’ve vanquished. In fact, we seem to wash our hands of them as quickly as possible.

That doesn’t mean we don’t have plenty of bases around the world as well (including Iraq - probably forever). Of course, this solves the problem of keeping a presence in the Middle East without having to kiss the Saudi’s butt. Maybe it wouldn’t be as important if we were allowed to develop our own energy resources, but it is not to be anytime soon. Thus we have to protect our/their supplies on the other side of the world.

No, we are definitely not an empire in the Roman sense.


8 posted on 01/08/2010 7:45:53 PM PST by Habibi ("It is vain to do with more what can be done with less." - William of Occam)
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To: ReaganCaesar

I don’t know. I can see Europe falling like that to Islam.


9 posted on 01/08/2010 7:46:09 PM PST by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards,com)
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To: ReaganCaesar

We are not an Empire.


10 posted on 01/08/2010 7:52:25 PM PST by Nuc1 (NUC1 Sub pusher SSN 668 (Liberals Aren't Patriots))
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To: Nuc1
We are not an Empire.

Yes, and at any rate, the world today is, in the phrase of an old SciAm article on world population, "without meaningful historical precedent." There are many caveats to that pronouncement, but the world is in an unprecedented situation, no doubt.

11 posted on 01/08/2010 8:20:46 PM PST by dr_lew
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To: ReaganCaesar

All nations fall eventually. Some go overnight, some fade slowly. Internal corruption just builds up until God pulls out his big eraser and starts over.

The dream that was America will come to an end, for the same reasons that all great powers have.

The question is when and how. The end can be delayed by the spiritual revival of a society and a return to truth.


12 posted on 01/08/2010 8:39:08 PM PST by lurk
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To: ReaganCaesar
antifree

My theory for the fall of Rome starts when Caesar crosses the Rubicon and turns the Republic into a dictatorship. With unlimited state power the people pulling the cart get smaller and the people in the cart increase. Eventually the taxes got so high people voluntarily made themselves into slaves rather than pay them. Not only that but the amount of people willing to defend the looter state went down to the point where they had defense done by foreign born soldiers.

American crossed the Rubicon with the passage of the Income tax. That amendment granting unlimited taxation pretty much cancels out the rest of the Constitution.

13 posted on 01/08/2010 8:53:56 PM PST by Nateman (If liberals aren't screaming you're doing it wrong.)
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To: kittymyrib

Agreed. I would also add that God answered Abraham: “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.” No matter how much America as a whole deserves the judgement of God, I believe that the righteous will find mercy. How God will handle it, of course, is a matter of faith and trust. I have the faith to believe that He will find this nation worth saving and will restore America as a beacon of Christianity to further His glorius purpose for the salvation of souls through Christ.


14 posted on 01/08/2010 9:25:57 PM PST by scottiemom ("As a Texas public school teacher, I would highly recommend private school")
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To: Nateman
American crossed the Rubicon with the passage of the Income tax. That amendment granting unlimited taxation pretty much cancels out the rest of the Constitution.

"Many a truth is said in jest," and the fact you aver is acknowledged in the hoary quip, "If the colonists thought that taxation without representation was bad, they should have seen it with representation."

15 posted on 01/08/2010 10:53:09 PM PST by dr_lew
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To: dr_lew
It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress.

Mark Twain.

16 posted on 01/08/2010 11:16:25 PM PST by Nateman (If liberals aren't screaming you're doing it wrong.)
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To: ReaganCaesar

actually the reason for Roman decline has something to do with government and currency. The government was way over spending and they were constantly devaluing ppl’s currency. Eventually they created a two tier currency system in which government were operating in gold while the citizen were constantly put in ever devaluing currency, thus forcing them to work for nothing for the government


17 posted on 01/09/2010 2:44:47 AM PST by 4rcane
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To: dr_lew

The world is in dire straights no doubt. Our government is so malignant the world should be afraid. And the marxist dims don’t intend to leave. They already have introduced amnesty in the house and and now have some voter registration subterfuge underway in congress. They intend to stay in power. And marxists will never be satisfied until they own the world.


18 posted on 01/09/2010 6:12:34 AM PST by Nuc1 (NUC1 Sub pusher SSN 668 (Liberals Aren't Patriots))
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To: ReaganCaesar

As I stated this the other time you posted this:
1. The US isn’t an empire.
2. The “moral decadence” period of Rome came mostly during her mid-periods. It picked up during Tiberius and peaked from Cladius to Nero’s reigns. The periods of moral decadence and excess reigned down into a more conservative(for lack of a better term) period starting with Nerva.
3. The fall is attributed with starting to happen with the Plague of Cyprian which decimated her army. The remaining army was spread out so thin, she was unable to protect her empire..
4..the rest is history..

Don’t whine, do something.


19 posted on 01/09/2010 9:47:59 AM PST by mnehring
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To: ReaganCaesar
It's tempting to think that way, but I remember the seventies when we all thought America's days of glory were over, too. Even our president (Carter) was out there telling us the same thing. Then Reagan won the presidency and by 1983 or 1984, everything had turned up.

Don't write us off just yet.

20 posted on 01/09/2010 10:06:12 AM PST by BfloGuy (It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we can expect . . .)
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To: ReaganCaesar

Oh, goody! another analysis based on the non-event, the “Fall of Rome”.

The Romans stopped believing in their gods not because of their decadence, but because they started believing in God, the All-Holy Trinity, as revealed in Christ Jesus.

St. Constantine (I’m Orthodox, so I venerate him as a saint, for some reason, Western Christians, both Latin and protestant don’t) moved the capital from Rome to New Rome (which everyone called “Constantinople” since he built the city) in 324. The big event attributed to the pagans’ decadence was the retirement of the last Western Augustus to a villa near Naples at the behest of the Christian Eastern Augustus, Zeno, who decided (probably wrongly) that Imperial interests in Italy could adequately be looked after by promoting the King of the Ostrogoths to the position of Patrician of the Romans.

No one noticed that “Rome fell” in 476 because it didn’t, the Empire continued for nearly another millenium, though in its last years it dwindled to the size of a city state, not through decadent disregard for morals—in the last days of the Empire, the Greek speaking Romaioi were not merely moral but devoted to ascetic discipline of fasting and prayer—but through the perfidy of purported Western Christian allies, neglect of the fleet, and a failure to adopt the fire-and-movement tactics of its Muslim adversaries.

St. Justinian’s reassertion of direct Imperial control over the west in the sixth century was understood as just that, not as conquests of lands outside the Empire.

Charlemagne’s coronation in 800 was intended to restore the office of Western Augustus, and it was only after the Emperor at Constantinople gave him a cold-shoulder as an upstart, that the Frankish court began its vain accusations of ‘heresy’ against the Christian East for continuing to say the Nicene Creed in its original form (without the filioque), started styling his own domains the “Holy Roman Empire” and calling the Roman Empire, the “Empire of the Hellenes” (which was slur since by that time Hellene meant not “Greek” but “Greek pagan”).

The Roman Empire fell on May 29, 1453, and not due to moral decadence.

If you think America will follow in Rome’s footsteps, expect the capital to be moved to oh, somewhere like Wichita, Omaha, or Tulsa, the decadent coasts to fall into barbarism and have to have military expeditions sent to reassert Federal control, and for America to go on for another thousand years or so.


21 posted on 01/09/2010 11:25:45 AM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: The_Reader_David

I like your attempt, David, but I’m sorry that you’re so misguided. The parallels are a little too hard to ignore. You’re paying attention to the wrong cultural axis. The precise “Fall” that I am referring to is the destruction of the Zeitgeist and national character of Rome. The original consciousness of the people that allowed for the innovation and expansion that could easily be measured by the Romans themselves and the neighboring cultures that felt their influence. Are you going to deny the expansion of America? Are you going to deny the cultural, political, and economic ascendence of America in regards to the fact that America has had the largest economy in the world since 1870? Will you deny that this ascendance was accompanied by a strong national pride in America, and can you deny that it has been deteriorating since the counterculture revolution of the 1960s? You haven’t noticed that America has had a hard time winning wars since the 1960s? If the Zeitgeist of the 1940s was applied to today’s military technology, we would be winning wars left and right in a tiny amount of time. I think it’s kind of sad that you’ve applied so much effort to figuring out the fall of Rome in other contexts. The answer lies in a simple concept of countercultural revolution, both in America and Rome.


22 posted on 01/09/2010 12:43:40 PM PST by ReaganCaesar
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To: ReaganCaesar

I fault anyone for attempting to draw parallels between actual historical events—the state of America at present, for instance—and the non-event of the “Fall of Rome”.

The fact is that the Roman Empire remained the dominant power in Europe long after the retirement of the last Western Augustus, and the fact there was still an Emperor at Constantinople was an anchor in the consciousness of Christendom well into the Middle Ages. Alfred the Great’s court modeled itself on the Imperial court, and the Saxons who fled the Norman conquest, for the most part decamped to Constantinople.

One can’t get useful historical insight about the present by invoking a past that never was. Gibbon’s historiographic fantasies about the “Fall of Rome” are about as useful for understanding the progression of great powers or decadence as Mann’s “hockey stick” is for understanding climate.


23 posted on 01/09/2010 9:06:22 PM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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