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Arizona speed cameras may be flash in pan as $90m fines are ignored
The Times(UK) ^ | 01/11/10 | Chris Ayres

Posted on 01/10/2010 7:03:30 PM PST by TigerLikesRooster

January 11, 2010

Arizona speed cameras may be flash in pan as $90m fines are ignored

Chris Ayres in Los Angeles

An attempt to introduce British-style speed cameras on the other side of the Atlantic has ended in a public revolt, with motorists binning speeding tickets worth $90 million (£60 million). The scheme in Arizona is now on the verge of bankruptcy and might be scrapped.

Its demise would mark an ignoble end to the first statewide effort to bring speed camera enforcement to the US, where many, including judges and elected officials, regard the devices as an unconstitutional taxcollection method.

“I see all the cameras in Arizona completely coming down,” said Shawn Dow, who is leading the public revolt via his chairmanship of Arizona Citizens Against Photo Radar. “The citizens of Arizona took away the cash cow of Arizona by refusing to pay.” He is now trying to gain support for a ballot measure banning the cameras in November’s elections.

Although about 700,000 tickets have been issued since Arizona’s 76-camera plan was rolled out last year, a mere $37 million of the $127 million in fines and surcharges has been collected. That is because Arizonans have realised that they can simply ignore tickets sent to them in the post, and the authorities cannot prove that they have received them. Unless the tickets are served in person — something Arizona cannot afford to do — they become void after three months.

Motorists have shown their opposition to the machines in other ways, too — such as placing large cardboard boxes over them, decorating them with sticky notes, attacking them with pickaxes and, in one case, setting off the cameras while standing in front wearing a monkey mask.

(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; News/Current Events; US: Arizona
KEYWORDS: arizona; boycott; fine; speedcamera
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Barring a full-scale uprising, this kind of boycott is unlikely to occur in Britain.
1 posted on 01/10/2010 7:03:31 PM PST by TigerLikesRooster
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Why are people so tolerant of red light cameras yet so revolted by speeding cameras?


2 posted on 01/10/2010 7:07:11 PM PST by Nate505
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To: TigerLikesRooster
US citizens need to find as many ways as possible to ignore our government, to flaunt our tax laws, to starve the beast, and to assert our freedom as citizens.

I'm tired of being a serf.

3 posted on 01/10/2010 7:07:47 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (We have the 1st so that we can call on people to rebel. We have 2nd so that they can.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

This stuff is coming to DC with Obozocare. The people who pay taxes will start ignoring the tyrants. You can’t get water from rocks.


4 posted on 01/10/2010 7:08:07 PM PST by VRWC For Truth (Throw the bums out who vote yes on the bail out)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

If they can be reached with a pickaxe, why doesn’t someone spray pain the lense? Way easier than a pickaxe.


5 posted on 01/10/2010 7:10:40 PM PST by mamelukesabre (Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum (If you want peace prepare for war))
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To: ClearCase_guy

You are exhibit 1 why SOCIALISM ALWAYS FAILS. God given freedom and the exercise thereof.


6 posted on 01/10/2010 7:10:44 PM PST by VRWC For Truth (Throw the bums out who vote yes on the bail out)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

The State of Florida banned these but cities and counties are still putting them in.

Basically unenforceable but they are saying they will make a negative report on your credit if you don’t pay.


7 posted on 01/10/2010 7:10:46 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: mamelukesabre

“If they can be reached with a pickaxe, why doesn’t someone spray pain the lense?”

They usually have extra cameras watching the cameras. Damaging them results in charges for fairly serious charges.


8 posted on 01/10/2010 7:14:38 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

The Brits don’t care much for speed cams either...

http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm


9 posted on 01/10/2010 7:16:05 PM PST by Fresh Wind ("...a whip of political correctness strangles their voice"-Vaclav Klaus on GW skeptics)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

I know people living in Arizona....I’d say these intrusive cameras and their support poles, will eventually be sold for scrap, or modified, and become someones private security cameras.

I don’t think the local governments in this country understand...This aint the UK...


10 posted on 01/10/2010 7:16:41 PM PST by dragnet2
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To: Nate505

We have red light cameras here in Albuquerque and people are not very tolerant of them at all. It has been an issue raised repeatedly by voters when the recent mayoral election was held. The new mayor has a commission or something that is studying the situation and they’ll give him their recommendations soon.

The thing I hate about the AZ speed cameras is that oftentimes they’re placed right after the speed limit is reduced. I think that’s unfair.


11 posted on 01/10/2010 7:16:44 PM PST by leapfrog0202 ("the American presidency is not supposed to be a journey of personal discover" Sarah Palin)
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To: Nate505
Why are people so tolerant of red light cameras yet so revolted by speeding cameras?

That's easy, because we are willing to stop at red lights but not willing to crawl along at the speed limit, not to put too fine a point on it.

12 posted on 01/10/2010 7:17:14 PM PST by dr_lew
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Barring a full-scale uprising, this kind of boycott is unlikely to occur in Britain.

Actually the Limeys have done themselves proud on this one issue. I'm embarrassed to see that my own fellow Arizonans, supposedly among the most stubborn government haters in the country, can't hold a candle to what the Brits have done. Hundreds of their cameras have been torched, spray painted, run over, torn down, or otherwise sabotaged.

If they can be made to apply as much devil-may-care anti-government insolence to other aspects of British public life, they might just save their country.


13 posted on 01/10/2010 7:17:19 PM PST by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order.)
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To: driftdiver

Hey...all you government creeps who attended the seminar on speed cameras: STOP SPENDING! Leave our freedopms alone, you junior fascists.


14 posted on 01/10/2010 7:17:54 PM PST by hal ogen
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To: leapfrog0202
The new mayor has a commission or something that is studying the situation and they’ll give him their recommendations soon.

Right....His commission is likely being paid the camera manufacturers.

15 posted on 01/10/2010 7:18:24 PM PST by dragnet2
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To: ccmay

I saw a couple cameras in Germany destroyed by my fellow GI’s while there. Germans are far too regimented to do such a thing.


16 posted on 01/10/2010 7:21:24 PM PST by Tailback
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To: ccmay
Seems that I spoke too soon.:-)
17 posted on 01/10/2010 7:22:32 PM PST by TigerLikesRooster (LUV DIC -- L,U,V-shaped recession, Depression, Inflation, Collapse)
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To: driftdiver

Wear a disguise then.


18 posted on 01/10/2010 7:34:34 PM PST by mamelukesabre (Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum (If you want peace prepare for war))
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To: mamelukesabre
Obama mask?
19 posted on 01/10/2010 7:35:46 PM PST by TigerLikesRooster (LUV DIC -- L,U,V-shaped recession, Depression, Inflation, Collapse)
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To: mamelukesabre

OR you could just refuse to pay.


20 posted on 01/10/2010 7:41:04 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Nate505

Red light cameras actually stop accidents, by punishing actual conflicts between vehicles, speeding cameras simply document something that is likely to mean little or nothing in any real safety terms.


21 posted on 01/10/2010 7:41:58 PM PST by 3niner (When Obama succeeds, America fails.)
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To: Nate505
Why are people so tolerant of red light cameras yet so revolted by speeding cameras?

Very few of us run red lights. Most of speed.
22 posted on 01/10/2010 7:43:11 PM PST by Arkinsaw
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To: 3niner

bttt


23 posted on 01/10/2010 7:43:59 PM PST by ConservativeMan55
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Dangit.

We got one of those tickets in the mail after a trip to Scottsdale. The state must have gotten our address through the car rental company.

Being law abiding, generally, we paid the $120.


24 posted on 01/10/2010 7:46:33 PM PST by fullchroma (Obama: GET OUT OF MY DOCTOR'S OFFICE!)
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To: 3niner
Red light cameras actually stop accidents....

This is true....but some places are starting to reduce yellow light times to catch more running red. This decreases safety and increases chance of accidents....just to increase revenue.
25 posted on 01/10/2010 7:46:49 PM PST by Arkinsaw
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Here on FREErepublic.... emphasis on FREE intended you can get into some really really nasty arguments with folks defended the necessity for the cameras. So if the argument in favor for them exists here of all places, well... That’s why we have cameras. You can have lots of liberty and very little control over the behavior of the people around you, or you can have very little liberty and lots of control over the people around you. That control is exerted by the local, city, county, federal governments through the elected will of the representatives. This country has very very clearly decided it does not want liberty, it prefers control, and predictability over the more chaotic circumstance of dangerous and unbridled liberty. The People have spoken, so we have cameras, helmet laws, cell phone laws etc. Try walking through town with an empty hunting rifle, count how long before you are tazed, maced shot or detained. So second Amendment is Joke, as is the concept of probable cause. Probable cause is the empty hunting rifle you are walking through town with, 2nd amendment be damned. So consequently forget the rest of the constitution. Its settled in this country and no going back.


26 posted on 01/10/2010 7:52:48 PM PST by DariusBane (Even the Rocks shall cry out "Hobamma to the Highest")
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To: TigerLikesRooster
That is because Arizonans have realised that they can simply ignore tickets sent to them in the post, and the authorities cannot prove that they have received them.

It doesn't work that way with jury duty. If the summons is ignored they can and will send you to jail and registered mail is not needed.

27 posted on 01/10/2010 7:53:01 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: 3niner

I’ve heard differently...
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/mar/12/na-red-light-cameras-increase-accidents-usf-study-/


28 posted on 01/10/2010 7:53:51 PM PST by dcgst4
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To: 3niner

I’m not convinced of that. In fact, I am convinced of just the opposite as my fellow motorists try to adjust to our newly installed cameras. I’m betting that the bulk of the red light violations are in fact drivers trained in a permissive yellow system now driving in a restrictive yellow state. There is a huge difference between not clearing an intersection by the time the light turns red and blowing through an intersection with active cross-traffic long after the light has turned red. Red light cameras will have little impact on the latter and that is the one that causes the most damage and death.


29 posted on 01/10/2010 7:53:54 PM PST by NonValueAdded ("'Diversity' is one of those words designed to absolve you of the need to think." Mark Steyn)
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To: Arkinsaw

Red light cameras have plenty of other problems too. I had a chance to observe some (as a pedestrian) that last Summer, and saw that many pictures were taken of cars that got stuck in an intersection, after someone else did something stupid and/or illegal.


30 posted on 01/10/2010 7:58:37 PM PST by 3niner (When Obama succeeds, America fails.)
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To: mamelukesabre

Because pickaxing is more fun.


31 posted on 01/10/2010 7:58:54 PM PST by discostu (wanted: brick, must be thick and well kept)
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To: Arkinsaw

According to what can get you ticketed people run red lights all the time. Most of the time they are trying to beat a left turn arrow before it turns red or they don’t make a complete stop before turning on a right on a red. Most people don’t just slam right thru a red light when there is oncoming traffic, much like most people who speed tend to go 10 or so MPHs above the limit instead of 40.


32 posted on 01/10/2010 7:59:01 PM PST by Nate505
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Real good news


33 posted on 01/10/2010 7:59:11 PM PST by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life is tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: driftdiver

Hell, who will have credit to worry about?


34 posted on 01/10/2010 8:00:31 PM PST by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life is tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: driftdiver

Get em all


35 posted on 01/10/2010 8:01:17 PM PST by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life is tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
It doesn't work that way with jury duty. If the summons is ignored they can and will send you to jail and registered mail is not needed.

I didn't "ignore" mine (Illinois), I simply forgot about it, filing it away until the time was past. Nothing has come of it yet. That was about 6 months ago.

They mail the things, wouldn't it be tough to prove that you even received it?

36 posted on 01/10/2010 8:03:55 PM PST by Graybeard58 ("Get lost, Mitt. You're the Eddie Haskell of the Republican party." (Finny))
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To: Arkinsaw

In Tucson, AZ at Oracle and River the yellow was shortened from 3 seconds to 2.7 or 2.8 after installation of the red light cameras. This intersection also has speed sensors.

Most of us know where they are. The ones that don’t see the yellow signs 300’ before the sensors in the pavement and slam on their brakes. It would be funny if not for the near rear enders.

It is revenue enhancement and nothing else with speed enforcement cameras. Red light cameras may have some small safety benefit but they have NO common sense or judgement. If you are in the intersection for ANY reason after the light is red you are nailed. A cop might have seen the reason you were still there. Maybe there was a dog that you braked to miss or something else. If it isn’t in the photos you have no proof.


37 posted on 01/10/2010 8:04:36 PM PST by AZ .44 MAG (I'm Jim Thompson and I say our government is a joke and its current makeup is the punch line.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

You have THE GUARANTEED RIGHT to face your accuser and ask them questions.
“Well, now, Mr. Sony 23TM, can you tell me where you were last Thursday....???
Judge, can you tell the witness to answer???”
BANG!
“Case dismissed”

But the above probably won’t happen. You know why? It’s not a criminal case. It’s a civil infraction.
You never broke the law.
You violated the terms and conditions of your “drivers license” contract.


38 posted on 01/10/2010 8:04:38 PM PST by djf (What has killed more people? 1) Guns in cars or 2) Cell phones in cars???? Do the math!!!!)
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To: DariusBane

You must be from new york.


39 posted on 01/10/2010 8:05:14 PM PST by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life is tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: dcgst4
Interesting.

I've also noted that red light cameras are overly simplistic. They simply take a snapshot, which may appear to mean one thing, but should run continuous video, then just trigger on certain events.

The video buffer could be very small (20 seconds or so) so each action would be lost after 20 seconds, unless a triggering event causes the previous 20 seconds to be saved for review. Review would often show that the person violating a red light was simply avoiding a conflict with someone else who was violating the law, in another way.

40 posted on 01/10/2010 8:06:58 PM PST by 3niner (When Obama succeeds, America fails.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

We only moved here a few months ago. There are speed cameras all over the place! I see that Arnold is thinking of installing them in California. Good luck!


41 posted on 01/10/2010 8:07:09 PM PST by originalbuckeye
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To: Reaganwuzthebest

Actually it does work that way with jury duty, unless they send it registered they can’t prove you got it so they can’t send you to jail. And registered is expensive. I got tired of wasting half a day not getting picked, so I started chucking them. They’ll resend 3 or 4 times but eventually they give up.


42 posted on 01/10/2010 8:07:24 PM PST by discostu (wanted: brick, must be thick and well kept)
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To: NonValueAdded

Those are valid points. See my comment 40.


43 posted on 01/10/2010 8:08:41 PM PST by 3niner (When Obama succeeds, America fails.)
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To: 3niner

Actually they take a series of pictures. They don’t care if you were legit in being in the intersection, these are revenue generators not justice.


44 posted on 01/10/2010 8:09:32 PM PST by discostu (wanted: brick, must be thick and well kept)
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To: discostu

I guess that’s a good enough excuse.


45 posted on 01/10/2010 8:10:53 PM PST by mamelukesabre (Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum (If you want peace prepare for war))
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To: Graybeard58

Could be it’s just tougher in NY. I got a jury summons recently and they give you something like 10 days to respond. Apparently so many were ignoring it that they started jailing those who didn’t mail the questionnaire in. And it’s sent regular mail not registered.


46 posted on 01/10/2010 8:11:31 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: discostu

Maybe in some states but in NY they’ve been jailing people for not responding. The jury duty summons have always been sent regular mail for as long as I can remember.


47 posted on 01/10/2010 8:13:33 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: imahawk

Nah, I’m from Albuquerque where we just ended the career of Marty Chavez, the idiot who brought the Red Flex cameras here. But the bad news is we still have them. The good news is the new mayor promised to “study” the issue and remove them if they don’t contribute to safety... So we shall see. BTW I live in the burb of Rio Rancho so couldn’t vote, but Albuquerque is where I work and drive, and is the dominant political entity.


48 posted on 01/10/2010 8:13:51 PM PST by DariusBane (Even the Rocks shall cry out "Hobamma to the Highest")
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To: discostu

The ones I observed used flash photography, and the first pictures were taken too late to show what really happened in many cases.


49 posted on 01/10/2010 8:14:49 PM PST by 3niner (When Obama succeeds, America fails.)
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To: Reaganwuzthebest

Somebody should take that to trial. Mail gets lost, they can’t prove the person got the summons, sending people to jail for a USPS screwup is way outside the law.


50 posted on 01/10/2010 8:14:55 PM PST by discostu (wanted: brick, must be thick and well kept)
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