Skip to comments.Arizona speed cameras may be flash in pan as $90m fines are ignored
Posted on 01/10/2010 7:03:30 PM PST by TigerLikesRooster
January 11, 2010
Arizona speed cameras may be flash in pan as $90m fines are ignored
Chris Ayres in Los Angeles
An attempt to introduce British-style speed cameras on the other side of the Atlantic has ended in a public revolt, with motorists binning speeding tickets worth $90 million (£60 million). The scheme in Arizona is now on the verge of bankruptcy and might be scrapped.
Its demise would mark an ignoble end to the first statewide effort to bring speed camera enforcement to the US, where many, including judges and elected officials, regard the devices as an unconstitutional taxcollection method.
I see all the cameras in Arizona completely coming down, said Shawn Dow, who is leading the public revolt via his chairmanship of Arizona Citizens Against Photo Radar. The citizens of Arizona took away the cash cow of Arizona by refusing to pay. He is now trying to gain support for a ballot measure banning the cameras in Novembers elections.
Although about 700,000 tickets have been issued since Arizonas 76-camera plan was rolled out last year, a mere $37 million of the $127 million in fines and surcharges has been collected. That is because Arizonans have realised that they can simply ignore tickets sent to them in the post, and the authorities cannot prove that they have received them. Unless the tickets are served in person something Arizona cannot afford to do they become void after three months.
Motorists have shown their opposition to the machines in other ways, too such as placing large cardboard boxes over them, decorating them with sticky notes, attacking them with pickaxes and, in one case, setting off the cameras while standing in front wearing a monkey mask.
(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...
Why are people so tolerant of red light cameras yet so revolted by speeding cameras?
I'm tired of being a serf.
This stuff is coming to DC with Obozocare. The people who pay taxes will start ignoring the tyrants. You can’t get water from rocks.
If they can be reached with a pickaxe, why doesn’t someone spray pain the lense? Way easier than a pickaxe.
You are exhibit 1 why SOCIALISM ALWAYS FAILS. God given freedom and the exercise thereof.
The State of Florida banned these but cities and counties are still putting them in.
Basically unenforceable but they are saying they will make a negative report on your credit if you don’t pay.
“If they can be reached with a pickaxe, why doesnt someone spray pain the lense?”
They usually have extra cameras watching the cameras. Damaging them results in charges for fairly serious charges.
The Brits don’t care much for speed cams either...
I know people living in Arizona....I’d say these intrusive cameras and their support poles, will eventually be sold for scrap, or modified, and become someones private security cameras.
I don’t think the local governments in this country understand...This aint the UK...
We have red light cameras here in Albuquerque and people are not very tolerant of them at all. It has been an issue raised repeatedly by voters when the recent mayoral election was held. The new mayor has a commission or something that is studying the situation and they’ll give him their recommendations soon.
The thing I hate about the AZ speed cameras is that oftentimes they’re placed right after the speed limit is reduced. I think that’s unfair.
That's easy, because we are willing to stop at red lights but not willing to crawl along at the speed limit, not to put too fine a point on it.
Actually the Limeys have done themselves proud on this one issue. I'm embarrassed to see that my own fellow Arizonans, supposedly among the most stubborn government haters in the country, can't hold a candle to what the Brits have done. Hundreds of their cameras have been torched, spray painted, run over, torn down, or otherwise sabotaged.
If they can be made to apply as much devil-may-care anti-government insolence to other aspects of British public life, they might just save their country.
Hey...all you government creeps who attended the seminar on speed cameras: STOP SPENDING! Leave our freedopms alone, you junior fascists.
Right....His commission is likely being paid the camera manufacturers.
I saw a couple cameras in Germany destroyed by my fellow GI’s while there. Germans are far too regimented to do such a thing.
Wear a disguise then.
OR you could just refuse to pay.
Red light cameras actually stop accidents, by punishing actual conflicts between vehicles, speeding cameras simply document something that is likely to mean little or nothing in any real safety terms.
We got one of those tickets in the mail after a trip to Scottsdale. The state must have gotten our address through the car rental company.
Being law abiding, generally, we paid the $120.
Here on FREErepublic.... emphasis on FREE intended you can get into some really really nasty arguments with folks defended the necessity for the cameras. So if the argument in favor for them exists here of all places, well... That’s why we have cameras. You can have lots of liberty and very little control over the behavior of the people around you, or you can have very little liberty and lots of control over the people around you. That control is exerted by the local, city, county, federal governments through the elected will of the representatives. This country has very very clearly decided it does not want liberty, it prefers control, and predictability over the more chaotic circumstance of dangerous and unbridled liberty. The People have spoken, so we have cameras, helmet laws, cell phone laws etc. Try walking through town with an empty hunting rifle, count how long before you are tazed, maced shot or detained. So second Amendment is Joke, as is the concept of probable cause. Probable cause is the empty hunting rifle you are walking through town with, 2nd amendment be damned. So consequently forget the rest of the constitution. Its settled in this country and no going back.
It doesn't work that way with jury duty. If the summons is ignored they can and will send you to jail and registered mail is not needed.
I’ve heard differently...
I’m not convinced of that. In fact, I am convinced of just the opposite as my fellow motorists try to adjust to our newly installed cameras. I’m betting that the bulk of the red light violations are in fact drivers trained in a permissive yellow system now driving in a restrictive yellow state. There is a huge difference between not clearing an intersection by the time the light turns red and blowing through an intersection with active cross-traffic long after the light has turned red. Red light cameras will have little impact on the latter and that is the one that causes the most damage and death.
Red light cameras have plenty of other problems too. I had a chance to observe some (as a pedestrian) that last Summer, and saw that many pictures were taken of cars that got stuck in an intersection, after someone else did something stupid and/or illegal.
Because pickaxing is more fun.
According to what can get you ticketed people run red lights all the time. Most of the time they are trying to beat a left turn arrow before it turns red or they don’t make a complete stop before turning on a right on a red. Most people don’t just slam right thru a red light when there is oncoming traffic, much like most people who speed tend to go 10 or so MPHs above the limit instead of 40.
Real good news
Hell, who will have credit to worry about?
Get em all
I didn't "ignore" mine (Illinois), I simply forgot about it, filing it away until the time was past. Nothing has come of it yet. That was about 6 months ago.
They mail the things, wouldn't it be tough to prove that you even received it?
In Tucson, AZ at Oracle and River the yellow was shortened from 3 seconds to 2.7 or 2.8 after installation of the red light cameras. This intersection also has speed sensors.
Most of us know where they are. The ones that don’t see the yellow signs 300’ before the sensors in the pavement and slam on their brakes. It would be funny if not for the near rear enders.
It is revenue enhancement and nothing else with speed enforcement cameras. Red light cameras may have some small safety benefit but they have NO common sense or judgement. If you are in the intersection for ANY reason after the light is red you are nailed. A cop might have seen the reason you were still there. Maybe there was a dog that you braked to miss or something else. If it isn’t in the photos you have no proof.
You have THE GUARANTEED RIGHT to face your accuser and ask them questions.
“Well, now, Mr. Sony 23TM, can you tell me where you were last Thursday....???
Judge, can you tell the witness to answer???”
But the above probably won’t happen. You know why? It’s not a criminal case. It’s a civil infraction.
You never broke the law.
You violated the terms and conditions of your “drivers license” contract.
You must be from new york.
I've also noted that red light cameras are overly simplistic. They simply take a snapshot, which may appear to mean one thing, but should run continuous video, then just trigger on certain events.
The video buffer could be very small (20 seconds or so) so each action would be lost after 20 seconds, unless a triggering event causes the previous 20 seconds to be saved for review. Review would often show that the person violating a red light was simply avoiding a conflict with someone else who was violating the law, in another way.
We only moved here a few months ago. There are speed cameras all over the place! I see that Arnold is thinking of installing them in California. Good luck!
Actually it does work that way with jury duty, unless they send it registered they can’t prove you got it so they can’t send you to jail. And registered is expensive. I got tired of wasting half a day not getting picked, so I started chucking them. They’ll resend 3 or 4 times but eventually they give up.
Those are valid points. See my comment 40.
Actually they take a series of pictures. They don’t care if you were legit in being in the intersection, these are revenue generators not justice.
I guess that’s a good enough excuse.
Could be it’s just tougher in NY. I got a jury summons recently and they give you something like 10 days to respond. Apparently so many were ignoring it that they started jailing those who didn’t mail the questionnaire in. And it’s sent regular mail not registered.
Maybe in some states but in NY they’ve been jailing people for not responding. The jury duty summons have always been sent regular mail for as long as I can remember.
Nah, I’m from Albuquerque where we just ended the career of Marty Chavez, the idiot who brought the Red Flex cameras here. But the bad news is we still have them. The good news is the new mayor promised to “study” the issue and remove them if they don’t contribute to safety... So we shall see. BTW I live in the burb of Rio Rancho so couldn’t vote, but Albuquerque is where I work and drive, and is the dominant political entity.
The ones I observed used flash photography, and the first pictures were taken too late to show what really happened in many cases.
Somebody should take that to trial. Mail gets lost, they can’t prove the person got the summons, sending people to jail for a USPS screwup is way outside the law.
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