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City to vote on assault rifle buy; Cops want an M-4 in every patrol car
El Paso, Inc. ^ | Timothy Roberts

Posted on 01/13/2010 3:15:33 PM PST by greatdefender

Members of the El Paso City Council appear to favor the purchase of over 1,000 assault rifles for the police department, which says it needs them to protect the city from increasingly better armed criminals.

The council will be asked on Tuesday to approve the purchase of 1,145 assault rifles at a cost of $772,646. That would supply all patrol officers with the civilian version of the M-4 military rifle. The lowest bid is from recommended bidder GT Distributors Inc. of Austin.

The money would come from a federal grant of up to $899,287, funds targeted at stimulating the economy.

The case for the purchase is usually couched in terms of the drug-cartel violence in Juárez.

“We definitely don’t want our police officers to be outgunned by any cartel operatives who might come over to El Paso,” says El Paso Mayor John Cook.

But in the wake of shootings at Fort Hood and incidents here involving soldiers, some council members say they are also concerned about errant soldiers.

Peter Pacillas, assistant chief for training and special operations, does not single out soldiers for concern. He says, “Anybody who has the capability of using a high-caliber weapon is a concern for us.”

Gun seizures

Three incidents in El Paso involving soldiers last year underscore those concerns. In each, soldiers used handguns, but police say the logical defense would be a rifle capable of shooting accurately over a significant distance.

Last April, a Chapin High School student was killed by a solider who was firing from across the street. The soldier, according to the Army’s Criminal Investigation Division, used a handgun. He was charged with murder.

In August, a solider was charged with shooting another solider at an El Paso bar. That, too involved a hand gun, according to the CID.

But perhaps the most notorious case cam in June, when an 18-year-old soldier stationed at Fort Bliss was charged in connection with the contract killing of a Mexican drug cartel lieutenant who also was a police informant. According to the El Paso Police Department, Michael Jackson Apodaca used a semi-automatic handgun.

According to statistics kept by the police department, the total number of guns seized by the police during searches and arrests has dropped over the last three years. What is worrisome, police say, is the increase in the percentage of those guns that are automatic or semi-automatic. Being able to fire more lead in a short period of time makes the criminal more dangerous.

Police seized 287 weapons in 2007, 265 in 2008 and only 253 in 2009. But the percentage of those weapons that are automatic or semi-automatic rose from 46.7 percent in 2007, to 50.2 percent in 2008, and to 59.7 percent in 2009.

“I feel comfortable with the request,” says Beto O’Rourke, city representative for the Westside District 8. “We are not trying to outgun the people with guns in our community, but to protect the public.”

Gang worries

Susie Byrd, District 2 representative, says she still has some questions.

“You always want police to approach any situation with an abundance of caution,” she says. “Having big assault rifles might embolden less cautious behavior.”

But she says she also worries about the violence across the border and the possible impact of military gangs.

According to the National Gang Threat Assessment for 2009, issued by the U.S. Department of Justice, the number of gang members who are in or who have come out of the military is unknown.

But, the report says, “the threat that (gang members with military training) pose to law enforcement is potentially significant, particularly if gang members trained in weapons, tactics and planning pass this instruction on to other gang members.”

A spokesman for the Army’s Criminal Investigation Division acknowledges the presence of criminal gangs in the military, but says the problem is not rampant.

“We certainly recognize this is a serious issue, and each incident or credible allegation will be fully investigated,” says Chris Grey, Army CID chief of public affairs.

The population increase caused by expansion at Fort Bliss may become a factor in crime levels, says city Rep. Steve Ortega, District 7.

“If you add to that a population coming back from an extremely violent environment integrating with the civilian population, we want to make sure that the police department has all the resources it needs to make us the safest city in the nation.”

For West Side District 1 Rep. Ann Morgan Lilly, the decision was relatively easy.

“If the police are asking for them (the assault rifles) and need them, that’s OK,” she says. “(Police Chief) Greg Allen never asks for anything he doesn’t need.”

If council approves the purchase, the M-4s could be here in 90 days. Police officials say all officers will receive 40 hours of training before putting the weapons in the locked racks of their patrol car trunks.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: banglist; city; m4; police
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To: Yorlik803; SJSAMPLE

“so you want to see dead police?” Oh geez, not this crap again. The Following is Sarcasm: Yes Yorlik803 I have always wanted to see dead police. I am looking on the internet for snuff videos right now. The Preceding was Sarcasm.

1. Yes everyone and I mean everyone should own a semi auto, mag fed carbine. The Second Amendment requires that we be able to defend ourselves.
2. I said if the city of El Paso wants to buy the weapons without federal money fine, do that.
3. On a personal level I want the government less well armed than me. Because I don’t trust the government to have more power than me. The police are the strong arm of the government.

That’s not really all that controversial is it?


21 posted on 01/13/2010 3:40:15 PM PST by DariusBane (Even the Rocks shall cry out "Hobamma to the Highest")
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To: randomhero97

“Civilian version” is the 16” barrel, semi-auto, not a bad price at all. Looking at GT Dist. site, it’s a Bushmaster. Looks like typical LE price to me...


22 posted on 01/13/2010 3:40:53 PM PST by brushcop (SFC Sallie, CPL Long, LTHarris, SSG Brown, PVT Simmons KIA OIF lll&V, they died for you, honor them)
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To: greatdefender

If they need the firepower okay. But why buy such a lousy rifle?


23 posted on 01/13/2010 3:41:11 PM PST by Seruzawa (If you agree with the French raise your hand - If you are French raise both hands.)
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To: Seruzawa
But why buy such a lousy rifle?

What? This isn't your daddy's M16A1 from Nam, these have evolved into pretty reliable weapons.
24 posted on 01/13/2010 3:44:17 PM PST by randomhero97 ("First you want to kill me, now you want to kiss me. Blow!" - Ash)
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To: Seruzawa

They could buy some of the very fine piston operated models. I was never happy with my M16, as it was pretty good through the first 3 mags, then got hot and unreliable. I believe that the gas piston on like the POF model would solve the problem. My next AR will be gas piston. (I know, lots of controversy on this issue).


25 posted on 01/13/2010 3:44:33 PM PST by DariusBane (Even the Rocks shall cry out "Hobamma to the Highest")
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To: brushcop

I wish they would buy built 6.8SPC M4 configured rifles that way there would more 6.8 ammo in production. I want to buy an upper in 6.8 but it’s hard to find ammo and I don’t reload as of yet.


26 posted on 01/13/2010 3:46:33 PM PST by randomhero97 ("First you want to kill me, now you want to kiss me. Blow!" - Ash)
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To: DariusBane

Like I said, get a mid-length upper and many of your problems will be solved.


27 posted on 01/13/2010 3:47:55 PM PST by randomhero97 ("First you want to kill me, now you want to kiss me. Blow!" - Ash)
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To: greatdefender

Every cop want to look Tacti-Cool dont they....
I use a 16” barrel with the A2 stock,, not quite an M4gery.
Whats wrong with the Mini-14s they all had to have years ago?


28 posted on 01/13/2010 3:47:55 PM PST by ▀udda▀udd (7 days - 7 ways Guero >>> with a floating, shifting, ever changing persona.....)
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To: Domandred
Not really sure about the need for an M-4 in every car, but $674.80 per rifle is at least a reasonable price.

And the reason I can't get this price even if I buy 10 is because?????

29 posted on 01/13/2010 3:51:42 PM PST by MrPiper
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To: randomhero97

Maybe, but they are still jam prone and are .223.

FNFAL. Accept no substitute. LOL!


30 posted on 01/13/2010 3:53:05 PM PST by Seruzawa (If you agree with the French raise your hand - If you are French raise both hands.)
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To: DariusBane

“2. I said if the city of El Paso wants to buy the weapons without federal money fine, do that.
3. On a personal level I want the government less well armed than me. Because I don’t trust the government to have more power than me. The police are the strong arm of the government.

That’s not really all that controversial is it?”

I’m with you all the way.


31 posted on 01/13/2010 3:56:11 PM PST by dljordan (Psalm 109:8 "Let his days be few; and let another take his office. ")
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To: Seruzawa
There is 75gr and 77gr loads out there that are pretty devastating.

I've been thinking about getting a FAL, but I've read that parts quality has gone down the last couple of years. DSARMS has some nice STGs
32 posted on 01/13/2010 3:56:45 PM PST by randomhero97 ("First you want to kill me, now you want to kiss me. Blow!" - Ash)
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To: randomhero97

Is there a web site that’ll help with building your own?


33 posted on 01/13/2010 3:58:21 PM PST by rbosque (11 year Freeper! Stock up on weapons while you have the chance.)
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To: greatdefender
Back in the Clinton Administration, our wonderful president destroyed thousands of M14 Rifles. This was stupidity squared, but not untypical of Bill Clinton.

I said at the time that the government could give these weapons to Law Enforcement at no cost. They could have been modified to be semi automatic for law enforcement purposes. If the police in the North Hollywood shootout had had just one of these rifles, the whole incident would have been over in no time.

These would be good weapons for our law enforcement at no charge. Now the police (tax payers) are going to have to pay top dollar for M4. What a waste Bill Clinton was.
34 posted on 01/13/2010 4:00:56 PM PST by truthguy (Good intentions are not enough!)
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To: greatdefender
“If you add to that a population coming back from an extremely violent environment integrating with the civilian population, we want to make sure that the police department has all the resources it needs to make us the safest city in the nation.”

Incompetano would be sooooo proud. They read her memo. They really did.

Secretary Of Homeland Security – Returning Veterans Pose Terrorist Threat

35 posted on 01/13/2010 4:01:05 PM PST by NonValueAdded ("'Diversity' is one of those words designed to absolve you of the need to think." Mark Steyn)
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To: randomhero97

It’s all in good fun.

I did carry the M16A1 in Nam, not my Daddy. So I can’t get over the experience and will never trust those suckers. However, seriously, if the police want firepower over drug gangs and body armor then I think they would be better off with M1As. The .308 is far more devastating and auto-fire is way overrated anyhow. Aimed .308 AP fire would put down gangbangers in pretty short order IMHO.


36 posted on 01/13/2010 4:03:25 PM PST by Seruzawa (If you agree with the French raise your hand - If you are French raise both hands.)
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To: Domandred
Not really sure about the need for an M-4 in every car, but $674.80 per rifle is at least a reasonable price.

Volume discount.

37 posted on 01/13/2010 4:05:52 PM PST by Doomonyou (Let them eat Lead.)
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To: rbosque
ar15.com

There are several tutorials there and a forum for any questions you have.
38 posted on 01/13/2010 4:13:15 PM PST by randomhero97 ("First you want to kill me, now you want to kiss me. Blow!" - Ash)
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To: All

Nearly all police sniper shots have been under one hundred yards, so this rifle is just fine for those intermediate distances between pistol and a dedicated sniper rifle.

I have never heard of anyone who has been shot with 5.56 saying it didn’t hurt.

The females in our department prefer it over the shottie because of felt recoil.


39 posted on 01/13/2010 4:15:14 PM PST by Molon Labbie
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To: randomhero97

Thanks!


40 posted on 01/13/2010 4:18:43 PM PST by rbosque (11 year Freeper! Stock up on weapons while you have the chance.)
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