AZ State Rep Crafting Eligibility Bill

The Right Side of Life ^ | 01/14/2010 | Phil

[Phil_GA]

Sun City, Arizona-based YourWestValley.com reported yesterday that State Representative Judy Burges (R-Skull Valley) is in the process of putting together a bill that would require a presidential or vice presidential candidate's eligibility to be independently verified by the Arizona Secretary of State. Essentially, if the candidate's eligibility isn't substantiated, the proposed legislation is said to require the SoS to drop the candidate from the ballot:

Burges told Capitol Media Services the measure is not necessarily about Obama, though she admitted she has her doubts that he was born in Hawaii as he claims and, even if so, that he can show he is a U.S. citizen.

"With what's happening throughout the world, that we need to make sure that our candidates are certifiable,'' she said.

Burges did not support Obama and is not a fan. And she said if, in fact, he was not a ''natural born'' citizen, that makes him suspect.

"When someone bows to the king of Saudi Arabia and they apologize for our country around the world, I have a problem with that,'' she said.

State Rep. Burges was referring to the President's "no-bow" bow to the king of Saudi Arabia that occurred back in April, 2009.

The story continues:

The kind of certification Burges wants, though, could be more difficult than simply checking for a valid birth certificate, as the arguments about his legal qualification go beyond whether he was actually born in Hawaii. ...

Burges' bill, if it becomes law, would put the Secretary of State in the position of having to determine whether the individual circumstances of a candidate's life disqualify him or her from being on the Arizona ballot.

[SNIP]

Much more at posting...

[Phil_GA]

As I mention further down in the posting, this is not the first time that the Arizona State legislature has considered eligibility bills.

Also, this is about law enforcement, which I appreciate.

[chopperman]

Will someone please tell me how you can be a ‘Natural Born Citizen’ when your father is not an American?

[Made In The USA]

Good, something like this would bring the question to closure one way or another. Other States should do this as well.

[DYngbld]

I had to provide more proof of eligibility to enlist in the military, then Obummer had to command it.

[Grn_Lantern]

Um...you’re born in the United States...

[screaminsunshine]

This will get rid of Obama but can we survive three years of his insanity.

[WellyP]

Simple answer, you can not be!

[stephenjohnbanker]

“This will get rid of Obama but can we survive three years of his insanity.”

My opinion, for what its worth?

N O

[WellyP]

BS! Do your homework before you post BS!

[Frantzie]

This lady has a lot of guts. She should run for McCain’s seat if JD Hayworth opts out.

[stephenjohnbanker]

Arizona

B U M P

[IntolerantOfTreason]

Good. This needs to be drafted very carefully in order not to be an own-goal though. It needs to specifically say “long form hospital birth certificate” rather than just “birth certificate”, in order to prevent Arizona officials from being bamboozled with Zero’s (worthless) short-form.

[UCFRoadWarrior]

Great move by this AZ state legislator....I hope other states do the same.

It is too bad that Fraud-Cons like Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter, Michelle Malkin, and others have trashed those who ask for Obama to release his birth certificate. These Fraud-cons, and others who trash the Birther movement....just cover up and enable Obama.

Kudos to this AZ legislator for raising an important contituitonal issue....and trying to do something about it....unlike the Fraud-Cons mentioned above

(NOTE: I singled out those who have actively ridiculed the Obama BC issue, and ridiculed those who brought it up)

[U.S. Army Retired]

What I like about this is if the bill is passed then Obama not qualifying would have to step down early as the race starts well before the election and controversy would ensue the whole race. Palin would simply walk into the Presidency.

[GeronL]

Does this require voter ID’s too?

[TheThinker]

Obama cannot be allowed to get reelected without showing his long form.

It would render the Constitution meaningless.

[eyeamok]

Wrong! You are Born in America and both your Parents are American Citizens.

[TheThinker]

When someone bows to the king of Saudi Arabia...

I've always wondered, was it a deep bow or was Obama trying to kneel?

[melancholy]

Ping.............

AZ State Rep Crafting Eligibility Bill Sun City, Arizona-based YourWestValley.com reported yesterday that State Representative Judy Burges (R-Skull Valley) is in the process of putting together a bill that would require a presidential or vice presidential candidate's eligibility to be independently verified by the Arizona Secretary of State. Essentially, if the candidate's eligibility isn't substantiated, the proposed legislation is said to require the SoS to drop the candidate from the ballot:

Burges told Capitol Media Services the measure is not necessarily about Obama, though she admitted she has her doubts that he was born in Hawaii as he claims and, even if so, that he can show he is a U.S. citizen.

"With what's happening throughout the world, that we need to make sure that our candidates are certifiable,'' she said.

0b0z0 and his gang are certifiable all right.

[IYAS9YAS]

"With what's happening throughout the world, that we need to make sure that our candidates are certifiable,''

They're certifiable, alright, but not in the way Judy meant.

[GalaxieFiveHundred]

According to U.S. Constitution Online (usconstitution.net):

The 14th Amendment defines citizenship as: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." Title 8 of the U.S. Code, Section 1401 further defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

*Anyone born inside the United States.

* Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe.

* Anyone born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.

* Anyone born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national.

* Anyone born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year.

* Anyone found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21.

* Anyone born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time).

Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President.

[Seizethecarp]

I love your blog, but for about a month my IE closes after about a minute of connection when I go there. I don't have this problem at any other site. Is it just me, or is there maybe an insidious anti-birther trojan at work?

I believe there are such trojans that used to attack me after I connected to Donofrio’s and Taitz’ sites, although those stopped after I dumped McAfee and installed MS Security Essentials.

[fwdude]

What a fantastic idea.

But like most fantastic ideas, like voters having to actually prove who they are, this will get shot down by liberals and their courts.

[WellyP]

BS! DO you homework!
“Anyone born inside the United States.”, is a “Native born” Citizen and NOT a Natural Born Citizen!

[RedneckReb]

Seems pretty clear to me...he’ll lose in ‘12 on his terrible agenda not this nonsense.

[freekitty]

Good.

[danamco]

You have a number of the ZERO-BRIGADE of “AFTER-BIRTHERS” spamming on this issue and they will give a ghost answer to your question, just wait and see, they come up on the Prairie like hungry lemmings!!!

[Condor51]

*** Will someone please tell me how you can be a ‘Natural Born Citizen’ when your father is not an American? ***

1) If you are born in the USA (14th Amendment)
2) if your Mother is a US citizen
and
see; Title 8 of the US Code. (Federal Laws)

[GalaxieFiveHundred]

BS! DO you homework!

Take a breath. Except for the first sentence in my post, it's all info direct from the U.S. Constitution Online website, not my interpretation of it. Just the messenger in this case, not the creator.

[Phil_GA]

*** Will someone please tell me how you can be a ‘Natural Born Citizen’ when your father is not an American? ***

1) If you are born in the USA (14th Amendment)
2) if your Mother is a US citizen
and
see; Title 8 of the US Code. (Federal Laws)

Now, state the law that applies the above to presidential eligibility.

(Hint: I don't think you'll be able to find it)

-Phil

[chopperman]

This determines if he’s just a citizen, not a ‘Natural Born’ citizen.

A ‘Natural Born’ citizen also has to have both parents be citizens. This is to minimize doubts about his loyalty to our country.

[bjorn14]

Well, at least from 1952-1986...now just being born in the US or it’s territories makes you a citizen. Your parents could be from Mars.

[Condor51]

*** This determines if he’s just a citizen, not a ‘Natural Born’ citizen. A ‘Natural Born’ citizen also has to have both parents be citizens. ***

Nope, that doesn't just confirm one's a citizen. Reread title 8 again, carefully.

And I hate to tell you but 'Natural Born Citizen' has never been legally defined. You can search any online Law Library and there isn't any (I prefer FindLaw). The only place the term 'natural born' occurs is in the US Constitution.

And if what you're saying was true, if I understand you correctly, then a person born in the USA of a 'native (natural) born' US citizen (me in Chi) and a naturalized citizen (my wife in Germany) couldn't be POTUS because our kids may have allegiance to Germany. That is patently absurd. Plus my daughters wouldn't like it.

[mcshot]

You can’t!

[mcshot]

...”Burges told Capitol Media Services the measure is not necessarily about Obama, though she admitted she has her doubts that he was born in Hawaii as he claims and, even if so, that he can show he is a U.S. citizen.”...

I beginning to think he’s not even a citizen(Kenyan) and if he is where is the proof. Lack of citizenship may explain some of his disdain for our Country.

[chopperman]

What you state only determines if he’s just a citizen, not a ‘Natural Born’ citizen.

A ‘Natural Born’ citizen also has to have both parents be citizens. This is to minimize doubts about his loyalty to our country.

Your children would be eligible because the parents do not have to be “Natural Born” but just be American citizens at the time of the child’s respective births.

I recommend that you read about Chester Arthur.

It was learned belatedly that Chester Arthur was ineligible because his father was not an American citizen. He knowingly hid this:

http://www.therightsideoflife.com/2008/12/06/leo-donofrio-further-comments-on-chester-arthur-dr-taitz-explains-the-hawaii-birth-certificate-issue/

We are now expected to believe that two wrongs make a right.

[El Gato]

Burges told Capitol Media Services the measure is not necessarily about Obama, though she admitted she has her doubts that he was born in Hawaii as he claims and, even if so, that he can show he is a U.S. citizen.

If he was born in Hawaii, he's a citizen, but not a Natural Born Citizen, as required by the Constitution.

[melancholy]

I beginning to think he’s not even a citizen(Kenyan) and if he is where is the proof. Lack of citizenship may explain some of his disdain for our Country.

I'll take that and raise you another: he ain't that "highly" educated either, GPAs in the sewer, not articulate at all w/o a teleprompter, and a negative IQ (brilliant my foot!) What I said can't be debunked without showing authentic education records. This is why they are sealed. Whether these ghostly records reveal foreign student status, etc. is a good question.

[melancholy]

You’re right; however, I didn’t write what you’re referring to.

[rxsid]

HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN?

 

“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate.html

 

 

Furthermore:  Hawaii's Territorial Law, Chapter 57 - "VITAL STATISTICS, I", shown beginning pg 23 of 29, (the law in effect in 1961) allowed baby's born anywhere in the world to be eligible to apply for a Hawaii birth certificate.

[rxsid]

A few examples of where the term "Natural Born Citizen" is mentioned, and what it means:

"THE VENUS, 12 U.S. (8 Cranch) 253, 289 (1814) (Marshall, C.J. concurring) (cites Vattel’s definition of Natural Born Citizen)
SHANKS V. DUPONT, 28 U.S. 242, 245 (1830) (same definition without citing Vattel)
MINOR V. HAPPERSETT, 88 U.S.162,167-168 ( 1875) (same definition without citing Vattel)
EX PARTE REYNOLDS, 1879, 5 Dill., 394, 402 (same definition and cites Vattel)
UNITED STATES V WARD, 42 F.320 (C.C.S.D. Cal. 1890) (same definition and cites Vattel.)"

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17519578/Kerchner-v-Obama-Congress-DOC-34-Plaintiffs-Brief-Opposing-Defendants-Motion-to-Dismiss

[El Gato]

1) If you are born in the USA (14th Amendment)

Makes you native born, which is only part of being Natural Born

2) if your Mother is a US citizen

makes you a citizen at birth, if she met the statory critieria, but a statutory one, not a natural one.

and see; Title 8 of the US Code. (Federal Laws)

Most apply to foreign births. If Obama was born outside the US, his mother had not residend in the US long enough after her 14th birthday to meet the then existing criteria in 8 USC 1401. But even if she had, he would be a citizen by statute law, not Natural Law. For the meaning of "Natural" in Natural Born Citizen" is the same as that in "Natural Law", of which most of the founders were big fans.

One exception would be if there was no acknowledged father, then if he was born in the US to a single mother who was a citizen, he'd be natural born.

But that's not what he has said and written and "his people" have provided "evidence" of. They say his father was Barrack H. Obama, a visiting student from Kenya and at the time a subject of Her Majesty the Queen of United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the Union of South Africa, Pakistan and Ceylon, and of her Possessions and other Territories to any of them belonging or pertaining.

[Grn_Lantern]

Seriously?

What fantasy land are you living in?

See 8 U.S.C. sec. 1401(a).

I mean, I’m no lawyer [wait, I AM a lawyer, a constitutional lawyer!], but that’s pretty clear to me, folks.

[Grn_Lantern]

see post 43

[maggief]

WHAT?!

[Grn_Lantern]

Those are all before Title 8 was enacted.

This is a distinction without legs.

[eyeamok]

And this is the problem, when we have lawyers trying to convince the people that Federal Law trumps What the Constitution actually Says.I prefer to go by what is actually WRITTEN in THE CONSTITUTION and the meanings at the time it was Written, not what a bunch of scumbag lawyers have perverted it to be.

[Grn_Lantern]

Yes, we scumbag lawyers have perverted a term with no legal definition contained in the document, as is demonstrated by whomever it was in this thread citing to a bunch of 19th century caselaw which based the definition therein on a legal treatise (which, of course, is not a binding legal authority). Look, I'm not willing to argue about this because it's futile and I don't frankly care that much, but here's how authority works: (1) constitution; (2) statute; (3) caselaw; (4) other non-binding stuff. The term is plainly not defined in the constitution and the cases cited in this thread base their definition on a legal treatise (see #4) because there's no other definition. But then, oh wait, what's Congress do, Congress tells us who a citizen is in Title 8. Thanks Congress! Now prior caselaw has been overwritten by legislative act [We wouldn't want the courts to refuse to enforce Congress' law, right? That'd be judicial activism....] So the Constitution doesn't say what the term means and it's plainly ambiguous (#1), so we go to #2: statute. The statute does explain who is and who is not a citizen. So there we go. Presuming there's no ambiguity or constitutional issue with Title 8 [are you suggesting Congress didn't have the power to enact Title 8?] then the question is resolved. Look, the guy was either born in HI or he wasn't. Whatever. But if he was born there, he's good, and we're best off focusing on the ballot box. If you don't like Title 8, ask your representatives to change it. Peace out.

[Grn_Lantern]

Oh, and all this not withstanding the Citizenship Clause of the 14th amendment, which is a whole other matter...

[eyeamok]

I understand completely, the problem I have is when they enact Federal Laws that change the meaning of the Constitution without actually Amending the Constitution. Remember our first USSC held Jury Trials on the meaning of the Constitution. We did not allow Judges to decide Constitutionality, it was reserved to the People thru trial by JURY. see John Jay. As far as the term not being defined in the Constitution, you are correct, nobody needed to be told what the definition of “is” is. it was readily understood. it required no LEGAL DEFINITION.