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Haitian ambassador: Our alleged “pact with the devil” helped your country a lot
Hotair ^ | 01/14/2010 | Allahpundit

Posted on 01/14/2010 7:57:17 PM PST by SeekAndFind

Via Breitbart, the Robertson story’s almost out of gas but a rejoinder this clever deserves wider airing. Most were content to hammer Reverend Pat yesterday for blaming the victims, but this guy’s after bigger game. If you’re trying to divine divine will by tracing a cause-and-effect line between certain historical data points, how do you know which data points to select? Does Haiti get no credit in the heavenly ledger for overthrowing a slaveholder regime and thereby bringing about the conditions for the U.S. to purchase the Louisiana territory? If not, if that’s spoiled by their, ahem, “pact with the devil,” does that mean the U.S. has some sort of reflected retribution coming because it profited from the deal (or was Katrina that retribution)? Or was the “pact with the devil” actually a good thing because God wanted the U.S. to have Louisiana — in which case, why are the Haitians supposedly being punished? If we do have retribution coming, how do we know when it’s finished — i.e., that Katrina wasn’t just part one of many? How come the Haitians needed help from the devil to get rid of slavery, anyway? Wasn’t God on their side? What about other non-Christian countries, as Peter Wehner asks? Stop me before I atheist-query again.

Note that Maddow doesn’t prompt this either; the ambassador offers it on his own, indicating the depth of his indignation. Below that you’ll find Gibbs, who was prompted, giving his own take. For once, he’s unobjectionable.

CLICK ABOVE LINK FOR VIDEO


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 1791; 700club; devil; earthquake; haiti; haitianearthquake; haitiearthquake; haitiquake; haitiquake2010; louisianapurchase; pactwithdevil; patrobertson; robertson; slaverevolt; voodoo; voudon
CLICK ABOVE LINK FOR VIDEO
1 posted on 01/14/2010 7:57:18 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

SEE HERE FOR THE ORIGINAL STATEMENT MADE BY PAT ROBERTSON :

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2427861/posts?page=136


2 posted on 01/14/2010 8:00:46 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

the media rules the world.


3 posted on 01/14/2010 8:02:31 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (You have only to be as brutal and ruthless as the Nazis and you will succeed in controlling prices.)
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To: SeekAndFind

form a Haitian Corps - Send them to Iraq and Afghanistan


4 posted on 01/14/2010 8:05:35 PM PST by LeoWindhorse
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To: SeekAndFind

Robertson has no clue. Haiti is a Christian country. Why do they even invite Robertson to comment, except to make a fool out of himself.


5 posted on 01/14/2010 8:07:24 PM PST by popdonnelly (Yes, we disagree - no, we won't shut up - no, we won't quit.)
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To: popdonnelly
Haiti is a Christian country.

A Haitian friend tells me that close to half of the country practices some form of Voodoo. Some Christian country...
6 posted on 01/14/2010 8:13:17 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: popdonnelly

06 Mar 2004
Voodoo, an exotic synthesis of African, Caribbean and Roman Catholic beliefs, with freemasonry mixed in too, pervades every facet of life in Haiti, so its role in the downfall of Mr Aristide is, for most, beyond dispute.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/centralamericaandthecaribbean/haiti/1456192/Voodoo-spirits-get-credit-for-Aristides-flight.html


7 posted on 01/14/2010 8:14:07 PM PST by donna (SarahPAC has donated money to...(wait for it)...Lindsey Graham!)
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To: popdonnelly
Check previous post: “Haiti: enslaved by its dark history”

A liberal UK reporter sites historical data on Haiti's “80% catholic, 100% voodoo” religious heritage. Also, evangelical missionaries to that country will tell you that it is most decidedly NOT CHRISTIAN.

8 posted on 01/14/2010 8:17:35 PM PST by Mrs.Z
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To: donna

For those who don’t know what Haitian Vodou (correct spelling ) is, here is a brief explanation :

The principal belief in Haitian Vodou is that there are various deities, or Lwa (commonly spelled Loa), who are subordinate to a greater god, known as Bondyè, who does not interfere with human affairs. Therefore it is to the lwa that Vodou worship is directed. Other characteristics of Vodou include veneration of the dead and protection against evil witchcraft.

It is based upon a merging of the beliefs and practices of West African peoples, (mainly the Fon and Ewe also known as West African Vodun), with Roman Catholic Christianity, which was brought about as African slaves were brought to Haiti in the 16th century and forced to convert to the religion of their owners, whilst they largely still followed their traditional African beliefs.

This suggests to me at least that conversion to Christianity was mostly HALF-HEARTED for a lot of the people.


9 posted on 01/14/2010 8:20:00 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: Mrs.Z

For those who don’t know what Haitian Vodou (correct spelling ) is, here is a brief explanation :

The principal belief in Haitian Vodou is that there are various deities, or Lwa (commonly spelled Loa), who are subordinate to a greater god, known as Bondyè, who does not interfere with human affairs. Therefore it is to the lwa that Vodou worship is directed. Other characteristics of Vodou include veneration of the dead and protection against evil witchcraft.

It is based upon a merging of the beliefs and practices of West African peoples, (mainly the Fon and Ewe also known as West African Vodun), with Roman Catholic Christianity, which was brought about as African slaves were brought to Haiti in the 16th century and forced to convert to the religion of their owners, whilst they largely still followed their traditional African beliefs.

This suggests to me at least that conversion to Christianity was mostly HALF-HEARTED for a lot of the people.


10 posted on 01/14/2010 8:20:42 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

It’ll always be voodoo to me.


11 posted on 01/14/2010 8:32:42 PM PST by donna (SarahPAC has donated money to...(wait for it)...Lindsey Graham!)
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To: popdonnelly

Haiti is the OPPOSITE of a Christian country. It is ruled by voodoo priests and disgusting animal scarifices.


12 posted on 01/14/2010 8:36:23 PM PST by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: SeekAndFind
One of my favorites, cannot wait until Kino or Criterion collection, remasters the DVD, I love the opening music and the Haitian voodoo practitioners. White Zombie 1932 Bela Lugosi(entire movie)
13 posted on 01/14/2010 8:37:16 PM PST by ansel12 (anti SoCon. Earl Warren's court 1953-1969, libertarian hero, anti social conservative loser.)
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To: SeekAndFind
If we do have retribution coming, how do we know when it’s finished —

Here's a hint: when everyone swears by everything that they'll never sin again, you're in the first lap of the Indy 500.

14 posted on 01/14/2010 8:43:11 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (You have only to be as brutal and ruthless as the Nazis and you will succeed in controlling prices.)
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To: SeekAndFind
Haiti [should get credit] for overthrowing a slaveholder regime

.. uh, well.. not quite yet. There are still slaves to be freed.

When the horror has been dealt with and recovery is in progress perhaps Haitians might google, Haiti slavery children, and start dealing with another horror.

While they're at it they may as well clean up ongoing horrors of a corrupt society and criminal rulers also.

15 posted on 01/14/2010 8:46:21 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: kabumpo

Let’s let them all die then so we can show Jesus how faithful we are.


16 posted on 01/14/2010 8:55:46 PM PST by RC one (WHAT!!!)
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To: Mrs.Z
...80% catholic...Also, evangelical missionaries to that country will tell you that it is most decidedly NOT CHRISTIAN.

Right, because all evangelicals know that Catholics are not christians.

And how come, with every one of the ten million protestant denominations constantly sending missionaries there, it's not a christian country?

17 posted on 01/14/2010 8:59:51 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (You have only to be as brutal and ruthless as the Nazis and you will succeed in controlling prices.)
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To: SeekAndFind

As I said on another thread if they didn’t make a pact with the Devil they certainly have the worst karma of any country in the Carribean. They can’t catch a break for anything.

And why the disparity between Haiti and the Dominican Republic?


18 posted on 01/14/2010 9:20:46 PM PST by VeniVidiVici (Gasoline is up 100% since the election of Barack Hussein Obama. Thanks, Democrats!)
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To: SeekAndFind

Its all bad voodoo.....


19 posted on 01/14/2010 9:23:49 PM PST by cranked
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To: SeekAndFind

While the loss of sugar income from Haiti was a problem, the sale of Lousiana to the U.S. was a done deal due more to Napoleon’s need for cash for his European wars and his realization that he couldn’t defend Lousiana against Spain, the U.K. and the U.S. If Napoleon had been a little less agressive against the other European powers, he could have easily re-taken Haiti, and Iowans might be speaking French.


20 posted on 01/14/2010 10:11:37 PM PST by VanShuyten ("a shadow...draped nobly in the folds of a gorgeous eloquence.")
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To: RC one

really pointless, verging on illiterate answer, RC one.


21 posted on 01/14/2010 10:12:51 PM PST by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: SeekAndFind
Does Haiti get no credit in the heavenly ledger for overthrowing a slaveholder regime

Well...considering that after they overthrew the slaveholders, the participants went on a bloody two month long killing spree against the entire white population of the island including the rape of children, impaling and dismemberment of their victims' bodies, and even a few instances of cannibalism, I'd say they more or less negated any favor they otherwise earned in that regard.

22 posted on 01/14/2010 10:14:21 PM PST by conimbricenses
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To: the invisib1e hand
Actually, Roman Catholic missionaries there will tell Haiti is NOT a "Christian" country. I've heard testimony on it....yes, something like 85% will profess to be Roman Catholic...but only nominally so, even while they are practicing (or really enslaved) by Voodoo superstitions with more ardency than Catholicism on the side.

Check out this National Geographic (not exactly a Pat Robertson/evangelical missionary organization...) video on Haitian Voodoo.

23 posted on 01/14/2010 10:30:07 PM PST by AnalogReigns
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To: SeekAndFind
Haitian ambassador: Our alleged “pact with the devil” helped your country a lot

Detroit is a perfect example.

24 posted on 01/15/2010 1:02:28 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (Arjuna, why have you have dropped your bow???)
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To: SeekAndFind
It is based upon a merging of the beliefs and practices of West African peoples, (mainly the Fon and Ewe also known as West African Vodun), with Roman Catholic Christianity,...

Sounds like Pelosi... baby sacrifices, abortion, SUPPOSEDLY 80% Catholic...

25 posted on 01/15/2010 1:05:46 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (Arjuna, why have you have dropped your bow???)
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To: kabumpo

No, I’ll tell you what’s pointless and illiterate, this entire argument about Haiti and Voodoo and pacts with satan. But hey, we gotta appease the nut jobs I guess, don’t we?


26 posted on 01/15/2010 2:35:36 AM PST by RC one (WHAT!!!)
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To: AnalogReigns

thanks but, not only was I not born yesterday, I live in NYC. Haitian voodoo is no surprise to me. They find severed goat heads in the parks in Brooklyn.


27 posted on 01/15/2010 7:54:21 AM PST by the invisib1e hand (You have only to be as brutal and ruthless as the Nazis and you will succeed in controlling prices.)
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To: RC one

It’s not an argument, it’s just a statement of facts —
All I said was that Haiti is the opposite of a Christian country.
I have been there and am knowledgable about Caribbean culture.
Have you/are you ?


28 posted on 01/15/2010 8:04:00 AM PST by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: the invisib1e hand

The same reason that after just as many missionaries have been sent to Assian countries, none of them are Christian. Because there is already a religion — Hinduism, Buddhism, et al — in place.


29 posted on 01/15/2010 8:06:31 AM PST by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: SeekAndFind
“Haitian Vodou (correct spelling )”

You raise an interesting point. I found this about “Voodoo.”:

“Today's rather scary word came from Louisiana French voudou imported from Haitian Creole vodoun. The original word was vodun from the Fon language. Fon was spoken in Dahomey (now Benin) and was brought to Haiti along with the religion by West African slaves. Later the religion spread to southern Louisiana where the word for it became voodoo with its current meaning.”

So which is correct? Is the correct spelling Spain, or España? Japan, or Nippon?

30 posted on 01/15/2010 8:10:33 AM PST by SoCal Pubbie
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To: kabumpo
Because there is already a religion — Hinduism, Buddhism, et al — in place.

So the evangelism's been a failure, in other words. Isn't the objective of evangelism to convert the existing religious?

31 posted on 01/15/2010 8:13:50 AM PST by the invisib1e hand (You have only to be as brutal and ruthless as the Nazis and you will succeed in controlling prices.)
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To: the invisib1e hand

I don’t think that evangelicals imagione that they are ever going to convert ana ntire country.
I think they want to save whatever souls they can save.


32 posted on 01/15/2010 8:28:53 AM PST by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: kabumpo

While folks are suffering and dieing, jackasses like you and Pat Robertson are arguing about their religion as if that is an issue here. Then you have the gall to state that my comments are pointless and illiterate? I’ll bet that doesn’t even strike you as hypocritical, does it? whatever.


33 posted on 01/15/2010 9:28:36 AM PST by RC one (WHAT!!!)
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To: RC one

well, I think when disasters happen, people are naturally curious. Robertson’s remark about a pact, and the ambassador’s response acknowledging what Robertson was referring to was intriguing, and people want to discuss what they were talking about. In order to do that, one has to learn what the pact was, what the revolt was about, and what followed it. America has been a part of Haitian history off and on since the 18th century and especially during WW1. In the same timeframe that America became the leader of the free world under self-rule, Haiti experienced a revolving door of literally dozens of dictators. And it’s status as a failed society does make it seem like Haiti’s not been a nation exactly favored by fate. And that is interesting to people. Learning about why Haiti is such a lawless place helps them understand why, for instance, they are seeing a city built of shanty shelters, or why the Dominican Republic isn’t jumping in to help with much enthusiasm, or why for years Haitians crowd into boats willing to risk their lives just to get away, or why, Haitians are so vulnerable to and unprepared for a natural disaster.

I don’t believe that God told Robertson that he caused the earthquake for this or that reason. I think Robertson has misinterpreted God’s message. I think we live in an imperfect world, and earthquakes are reminders of that imperfection. I hope that the Haitian people who are so used to violence and working against each other learn from this experience how to finally work together. And I hope that this latest rebuilding will last, and Haiti will finally come out a winner. I think we all hope for Haitian recovery and success.


34 posted on 01/15/2010 12:32:27 PM PST by blueplum
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To: RC one

I’m not arguing about their religion — you were the one who brought up religion when you stated that Haiti was a Christian country. I merely corrected your error.

The culture of voodoo is an issue, and a principla one — because vooodoo is part of what keeps Haiti in the abject misery that it has suffered for 200 years. Part of the reason that this earthquake has had such devastating consquences is because of the the way that this primitive culture facilitates the constatnt, massive stealing of the millions we send to allievate that suffering.
When you see the difference between Haiti and the Domincan Republic — they occupy the same small island — it’s absolutley mind-boggling.
Calling me a jackass — because I deploy facts and first-hand experience in my statement — is not going to make you infomed, knowledgable or right. And I do find it odd to encounter the name-calling tactic here on FR, since it usually is the first resort of liberals when they have no facts or ideas to bring to a conversation.


35 posted on 01/16/2010 9:39:57 AM PST by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: WilliamofCarmichael

“Haiti slavery children”

Thanks, hadn’t heard that one.

Up to 300,000 children have been given away by their parents in Haiti.

Many of them end up working for other families as domestic servants. Haiti is one of the world’s poorest countries and families who cannot afford to feed their children give them away under what it is called the Restavek system.

It is supposed to ensure the youngsters get food, shelter and schooling.

However as Mike Thomson reports from Haiti the reality is very different.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8393085.stm


36 posted on 01/16/2010 9:58:07 AM PST by AuntB (If Al Qaeda grew drugs & burned our forests instead of armed Mexican Cartels would anyone notice?)
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To: RC one

Well, sweetie, leftists don’t hesitate to blame natural disasters on the shameful use of 100 watt lightbulbs.

What’s the diff?


37 posted on 01/16/2010 11:48:53 AM PST by altura
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To: altura

not much actually.


38 posted on 01/16/2010 2:02:31 PM PST by RC one (WHAT!!!)
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To: AuntB
You're welcome.

Michael Savage is the only one that I know of who has mentioned the slavery that exists right here in our own neighborhood. That's where I learned of it. Other articles report rampant sexual abuse of the child slaves in Haiti. Here's one article

Like everyone else Savage condemned Robertson but I don't know . . . .

39 posted on 01/16/2010 3:38:54 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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