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For Gates Aides, No Fatigues at Work
New York Times ^ | January 18, 2010 | THOM SHANKER and ERIC SCHMITT

Posted on 01/19/2010 3:40:00 AM PST by tlb

WASHINGTON — Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates has told his military aides not to wear combat fatigues to work at the Pentagon anymore, reversing a symbolic change of protocol ordered in the harrowing days after the Sept. 11 attacks.

There was no formal announcement about Mr. Gates directing his military staff to shed their fatigues in favor of business uniforms — the smartly pressed ones bedecked with combat medals and service ribbons that are the military equivalent of a civilian coat and tie, worn with dress shoes and not combat boots.

But throughout the Defense Department, where every action by the civilian boss is parsed by officers with a care akin to old-school Kremlinology, Mr. Gates’s decision is likely to prompt deliberations across the armed services on whether to have personnel working in the Pentagon follow his example.

The defense secretary’s instructions took effect with the start of the new year and were directed at only some of the 23,000 employees at the Pentagon. Even so, the change has been noticed by recent visitors to Mr. Gates’s third-floor suite of offices and has become a topic of conversation along the Pentagon’s 17.5 miles of corridors.

The switch to camouflage and flight suits became the norm in the days after Sept. 11,and it made a statement: The building itself was a terrorist target, the nation was on a war footing, and it was thought important that even military personnel on the home front should dress for combat.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: bdus; gates; pentagon; uniform; windowdressing
Prettier.
1 posted on 01/19/2010 3:40:02 AM PST by tlb
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To: tlb

A lot more trouble and expense!


2 posted on 01/19/2010 3:42:21 AM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (THE SECOND AMENDMENT, A MATTER OF FACT, NOT A MATTER OF OPINION)
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To: tlb

.....they revert back to form (military haters)


3 posted on 01/19/2010 3:42:23 AM PST by Doogle (DID YOU FORGET...to send your FR donation?...YOU TOO LURKERS!)
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To: tlb
is parsed by officers with a care akin to old-school Kremlinology

Die, NY Times, die!

4 posted on 01/19/2010 3:45:32 AM PST by Glenn (iamtheresistance.org)
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Effin’ Liberals and their influences. Heaven forbid we have WARRIORS that work at the PENTAGON.


5 posted on 01/19/2010 3:46:05 AM PST by 999replies (Thune/Rubio 2012)
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To: 999replies

Surprised it took a year after Obama took over for this to happen. He probably wasn’t paying attention.


6 posted on 01/19/2010 3:47:58 AM PST by John W
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To: tlb

And to THINK that this slug Robert Gates was considered not only the protege of the finest DCI in U.S. history (the late William J. Casey in the Reagan Administration), but was treated almost like a son by former Director Casey, who must surely be spinning in his grave.


7 posted on 01/19/2010 3:48:32 AM PST by mkjessup (0bama squats to pee.)
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To: tlb
To any Military Personnel working at the Pentagon, there should be only one response to a directive from The Secretary: Yes Sir!
8 posted on 01/19/2010 3:48:57 AM PST by Dixie Yooper (Ephesians 6:11)
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To: tlb
Reagan stopped the Carter-era practice of servicemembers wearing civilian clothes to the Pentagon instead of uniforms. I don't think that was a bad thing and I believe field uniforms/flight suits aren't appropriate either.

I'll have to support Gates on this one.

9 posted on 01/19/2010 3:49:02 AM PST by paddles
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To: tlb

Personal camouflage including faces and helmets would probably work there, if all of the walls were painted in the same camouflage colors and patterns inside and out. Oh...and the lights dimmed quite a bit.


10 posted on 01/19/2010 3:50:14 AM PST by familyop (cbt. engr. (cbt), NG, '89-' 96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote.)
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To: John W

“Surprised it took a year after Obama took over for this to happen. He probably wasn’t paying attention”

He was on vacation or playing golf.


11 posted on 01/19/2010 3:54:35 AM PST by 999replies (Thune/Rubio 2012)
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To: familyop

What are you saying, that camo should only be worn where it blends in? Please explain.


12 posted on 01/19/2010 3:56:50 AM PST by 999replies (Thune/Rubio 2012)
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To: familyop
if all of the walls were painted in the same camouflage colors

My dad worked at the Pentagon for many years and the one time I went with him to work on a Saturday I noticed how all the hallways look the same. I figured you could get lost in that drab maze.
13 posted on 01/19/2010 3:57:28 AM PST by visualops (Freepin' on my Pre!)
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To: tlb

Back to the Hillery doctrine.


14 posted on 01/19/2010 4:05:11 AM PST by Tigen (I shall raise you one .)
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To: tlb
The switch to camouflage and flight suits became the norm in the days after Sept. 11

Ahh... but you see, it became September 10th as soon as Barry was installed.
Now shine those shoes, Marine!

15 posted on 01/19/2010 4:13:50 AM PST by grobdriver (Proud Member, Party Of No! No Socialism - No Fascism - Nobama - No Way!)
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To: tlb

aka. “Stand Down”


16 posted on 01/19/2010 4:13:51 AM PST by The Duke
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To: Dixie Yooper

In my time in the navy (long time ago) we had ‘undress blues’ for admin areas. I would think most other branches still do also.

I always thought ‘flight suit’ was uncalled for, unless on stand-by status or scheduled to fly. There were better suited uniforms for admin positions.


17 posted on 01/19/2010 4:14:12 AM PST by maine yankee
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To: visualops

Agreed. I was joking about camouflage, of course.

Construction design and planning are important security considerations for the homes of civilians, too. Granted, they won’t be the same considerations, but they are worth much thought. Home invaders, for example, can be inhibited by many things before actually trying to break in to a home. Firearms and liability dogs (dangerous animals) get too much attention, IMO.

Fences, lighting, recording devices (including visual), alarms (including good dogs), security of records (remote servers for video files), obstacles (safe obstacles—not liability obstacles), directions of visibility, approaches, materials, elevations and many other things are more important. The list is virtually endless.


18 posted on 01/19/2010 4:20:20 AM PST by familyop (cbt. engr. (cbt), NG, '89-' 96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote.)
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To: tlb

Course, they’ll probably have casual Fridays.


19 posted on 01/19/2010 4:21:39 AM PST by Starstruck
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To: paddles; All

“I’ll have to support Gates on this one.”

I agree with you.

My son is a Naval Academy grad and now an officer of Marines. My daughter is an Army officer. I have been struck that Navy and Marine personnel in general are only authorized to wear fatigues in garrison or aboard ship. Otherwise, they are in professional-appearing service dress. And, official events (graduations, winging, etc) are almost always in dress uniforms.

The Army, on the other hand, seems to do everything in BDU’s, and I think, inappropriately so.

A good example is that, a few years back, the Military Channel did a big show on the day of the Army-Navy game. During the pre-game, the Superintendant of the Naval Academy and a senior USMC officer were being interviewed; the interviewers were in jacket and tie and the military officers were in service dress. When it came time for the Supe of West Point to be interviewed, he was in BDU’s, and looked ridiculous.

If it were up to me, the Army would go back to the WWII era tobacco brown/khaki service uniforms: they had real class.

Just my $0.02


20 posted on 01/19/2010 4:27:22 AM PST by paterfamilias
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To: tlb

Gates and the rest of Obama’s cronies don’t want to be reminded that the USA has a military. What a jerk!


21 posted on 01/19/2010 4:33:25 AM PST by caver (Obama's first goals: allow more killing of innocents and allow the killers of innocents to go free.)
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To: paterfamilias

>>>If it were up to me, the Army would go back to the WWII era tobacco brown/khaki service uniforms: they had real class

I agree the officers cut looks good in those old movies but the enlisted men’s cut looks like a potato sack with legs and sleeves.


22 posted on 01/19/2010 4:33:41 AM PST by tlb
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To: paddles

They are not asking for FULL DRESS, it is what in the early 70’s in Naval service called service blues or service whites. Ribbons/dress shoes.

It is not unlike the professional business world, there is NO place for blue jeans and collarless/tshirts in my org. Although I do not expect suit and tie anymore, most of my employees naturally wear dress slacks/oxford shirt tie. Casual friday ... it is a stupid concept ... my approach to business attire is my business only professional 4 days a week?

Adm. Zumwalt brought in the liberty civilian clothes for one main reason ... sailors in uniform were being spit on as they came through the airports. I experienced that in San Francisco. Ask any sailor the prevailing attitude of Nor(folk Va. during the late 60’s .. sailors and dogs keep off the grass.

Even in an industrial setting with a ship in Dry Dock, the quarterdeck watches .. OOD/POW and associated rovers ... were in dress uniform.

The only way off base was in appropriate civvies or dress uniform. Khaki’s with ribbons were acceptable to and from duty station without a stop for officers/cpo’s, enlisted dungarees were prohibited off base in any scenario.

The service dress uniform is NOT an imposition on military, particularly in pentagon roles. It is professionalism on display. The expectation is the same in my business.


23 posted on 01/19/2010 4:57:25 AM PST by HiramQuick (work harder ... welfare recipients depend on you!)
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To: maine yankee

Some people may criticize this move but, as a retired AF officer, I always thought that arbitrarily making military wear fatigues was kind of a sham. If you’re in combat, deployed, or have a job where it makes sense—then absolutely. If you’re in CONUS, working in an office, then what is the point? Other than “solidarity” with those who are deployed, I can’t think of one.


24 posted on 01/19/2010 5:01:50 AM PST by rbg81 (DRAIN THE SWAMP!!)
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To: rbg81

You nailed it!


25 posted on 01/19/2010 5:49:59 AM PST by HiramQuick (work harder ... welfare recipients depend on you!)
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To: tlb

Not a problem.


26 posted on 01/19/2010 5:55:28 AM PST by verity (Obama Lies)
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To: rbg81
Some people may criticize this move but, as a retired AF officer, I always thought that arbitrarily making military wear fatigues was kind of a sham. If you’re in combat, deployed, or have a job where it makes sense—then absolutely. If you’re in CONUS, working in an office, then what is the point? Other than “solidarity” with those who are deployed, I can’t think of one.

My son is a Naval Captain and works at the Pentagon, I'll have to call him and get his thoughts on this.

27 posted on 01/19/2010 6:06:46 AM PST by USS Alaska (Nuke the terrorist savages - In Honor of Standing Wolf)
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To: Doogle
What does that mean?
28 posted on 01/19/2010 6:23:47 AM PST by starlifter (Sapor Amo Pullus)
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To: tlb

“military personnel on the home front should dress for combat.”

I don’t think this is a big deal. BUT. The NYSlimes has to put an “eveil” spin on it.

FYI, ya’ bootlicker reporters...the Fatigue uniform is, and has been, the uniform of the day in Garrison, not just for combat.

We had a standard Olive Drab for Garrison fatigues, and Camo, as needed, for combat, but the genderless PC leadership canned that. You’ve gone to the “One” uniform concept with that dreadful new Class “A” uniform and only Camo’s. And now, our civilian Secretary is afraid that Camo’s will, what, scare the muzzies???


29 posted on 01/19/2010 8:50:46 AM PST by papasmurf (sudo apt-get install U-S-Constitution)
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To: tlb

no need for the REMFs to wear camo, they should dress like the clerks that they are.

was that too harsh?


30 posted on 01/19/2010 9:24:47 AM PST by lack-of-trust
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To: familyop

I believe that having a dog is still the #1 crime deterent. Now you don’t have to have a “liability” dog, a dog that is medium size and that barks at everything that gets anywhere near the fence works for us.


31 posted on 01/19/2010 10:07:23 AM PST by visualops (Freepin' on my Pre!)
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To: starlifter
...the only thing that has changed in the last 8 years as far as the rats was the degree in which they respect the military.
It was easy to forget Napolitano’s don't trust returning military comment.....
It was easy to pass off Murtha’s degrading descriptions of operations and guilty sentence he laid upon Marines.......
It was real easy listening to Kerry opine how our military was like Nazi’s in the middle of the night scaring families
It was OK to have Reid tell the world “this war is lost” while our guys were dying and fighting BEFORE the surge that was automatically deemed failure by many in Congress.

Did you ever hear any democrat speak up for the military during the rants that went on....no, not until the American people started calling and emailing did they go silent.
I recall the 9/11 Pentagon attack, and I remember seeing members of our military IN UNIFORM,and all ranks, rescuing,fighting the fires,and caring for the wounded literally hundreds IN FATIGUES at the time,if it's cleaned and pressed fatigues now,the dress uniform will be next.....
....as long as we have people deployed and their lives are in danger, I see nothing wrong with his aides, military aides,with earned ranks,earned awards,deployment ribbons and all,performing their duties as aides in Military dress.

32 posted on 01/19/2010 10:25:29 AM PST by Doogle (DID YOU FORGET...to send your FR donation?...YOU TOO LURKERS!)
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To: Doogle
Gates, who is a Bush holdover, said he wants his guys in a different uniform, not out of uniform.
33 posted on 01/19/2010 10:35:18 AM PST by starlifter (Sapor Amo Pullus)
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To: starlifter

fatigues today,dress uniform tomorrow


34 posted on 01/19/2010 11:12:32 AM PST by Doogle (DID YOU FORGET...to send your FR donation?...YOU TOO LURKERS!)
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To: Doogle
I’m still not clear what the issue is that annoys you: it’s a different uniform, but it’s always a uniform. Whether it’s ACU’s (fatigues went away twenty years ago), class b or service dress, it does not take away (nor add to) the work these people do.
35 posted on 01/19/2010 1:14:31 PM PST by starlifter (Sapor Amo Pullus)
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To: Doogle
I’m still not clear what the issue is that annoys you: it’s a different uniform, but it’s always a uniform. Whether it’s ACU’s (fatigues went away twenty years ago), class b or service dress, it does not take away (nor add to) the work these people do.
36 posted on 01/19/2010 1:17:50 PM PST by starlifter (Sapor Amo Pullus)
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To: starlifter
reversing a symbolic change of protocol ordered in the harrowing days after the Sept. 11 attacks. The building itself WAS a terrorist target the nation WAS on a war footing

what annoys me is the pre9/11 way of thinking, everything is past tense. Are we not losing men and women in the military? Isn't it the same military making the decisions who should show solidarity with the troops in the field....or has it become a topic of conversation along the Pentagon’s 17.5 miles of corridors.

You see the conversation shouldn't be about dress,it should be about the mission. If I were over there the last thing I would be concerned about is how people are dressing

37 posted on 01/19/2010 2:30:33 PM PST by Doogle (DID YOU FORGET...to send your FR donation?...YOU TOO LURKERS!)
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To: tlb
And Air Force and Marine Corps officials said their personnel already wear business uniforms on certain days of the week.

Nobody, and I mean nobody from the USMC or USAF used the word "business uniforms" to an idiot NY Times reporter.

38 posted on 01/23/2010 9:17:41 PM PST by TankerKC (But I used spell cheque.)
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To: lack-of-trust
was that too harsh?

No...just ignorant.

39 posted on 01/23/2010 9:21:39 PM PST by TankerKC (But I used spell cheque.)
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