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No Longer Their Golden Ticket (law school)
New York Times ^ | January 15, 2010 | Alex Williams

Posted on 01/19/2010 5:25:52 AM PST by reaganaut1

...

“The Deep End” was conceived in 2007, that halcyon era of $160,000 starting salaries and full employment even for law grads who had scored in the 150s on their LSAT’s.

Those days are over. As the profession lurches through its worst slump in decades, with jobs and bonuses cut and internal pressures to perform rising, associates do not just feel as if they are diving into the deep end, but rather, drowning.

Lawyers who entered the field as recently as a few years ago could reasonably expect a life of comfort, security and social esteem. Many are now faced with a different landscape. Firms shed more than 4,600 lawyers last year, according to a blog that tracks the legal industry, Law Shucks. Bonuses for those who survive are shriveling, and an increasing number of firms now compensate associates based on grades for performance — shades of law school — rather than automatically advancing them on the salary scale.

For those just starting out, it’s easy to think that the rules have changed six minutes into the first period.

“I thought, ‘Great, I can afford to buy a house at 23,’ ” said Jacqueline Muna Musiitwa, recalling her first year as an associate in 2006 at Pillsbury in San Francisco. “If I start this way at 23, goodness knows what it will be like when I’m 40.”

She accepted the notoriously grueling workload for the prospect of Caribbean vacations, a convertible and a big loft apartment. But young lawyers now entering the field can feel no such assurance, said Ms. Musiitwa, 27, who left Pillsbury after a year to start a boutique firm.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: lawschool; lawyers
Lawyers losing money and prestige is good, but unless government stops over-regulating, it will be difficult for other productive professions such as engineering to prosper.
1 posted on 01/19/2010 5:25:53 AM PST by reaganaut1
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To: reaganaut1

Lawyers are a dime a dozen, congress is full of them.


2 posted on 01/19/2010 5:28:49 AM PST by Graybeard58 ("Get lost, Mitt. You're the Eddie Haskell of the Republican party." (Finny))
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To: reaganaut1

Now if we could just keep lawyers out of government. Biggest bunch of screwups I’ve ever seen.


3 posted on 01/19/2010 5:29:21 AM PST by Dewey Revoltnow
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To: Dewey Revoltnow

PFL


4 posted on 01/19/2010 5:32:17 AM PST by Batman11 (Sarah Palin: "Illegal immigrants are called illegal for a reason!")
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To: reaganaut1

Lawyers are running fishing commercial to find clients for malpractice suits against Doctors, Hospitals and Drug companies.

I am waiting for the same type of commercial to find victims of bad lawyers. Sharks eating sharks, not that will be fun.


5 posted on 01/19/2010 5:34:10 AM PST by CIB-173RDABN
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To: reaganaut1

The lawyer woes need to trickle up to government now.


6 posted on 01/19/2010 5:34:10 AM PST by mamelukesabre (Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum (If you want peace prepare for war))
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To: reaganaut1

The big salaries they are talking about in this came with big city, big firms. Up or out anyway, so very brief time with the salary, taxed at 50% in NYC, and then the rent and cost of living ate up the rest. Hard to believe, but it was not such a great deal even in the 90’s with starting salaries in the 90’s. Hard to believe they hit 160k tho!


7 posted on 01/19/2010 5:34:18 AM PST by Woebama (Never, never, never quit)
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To: reaganaut1

They should take a tip from those famous Harvard Law grads Michelle and Barry - go into comunity organizing!


8 posted on 01/19/2010 5:36:16 AM PST by Rummyfan (Iraq: it's not about Iraq anymore, it's about the USA!)
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To: reaganaut1

They should take a tip from those famous Harvard Law grads Michelle and Barry - go into comunity organizing!


9 posted on 01/19/2010 5:36:16 AM PST by Rummyfan (Iraq: it's not about Iraq anymore, it's about the USA!)
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To: reaganaut1

Socialize lawyers, not medicine.


10 posted on 01/19/2010 5:38:14 AM PST by Ben Chad
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To: Dewey Revoltnow

We already did with the “Titles of Nobility” Amendment, Also known as the Missing 13th Amendment. It was the Law of the Land until it miraculously disappeared.


11 posted on 01/19/2010 5:39:06 AM PST by eyeamok
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To: reaganaut1

I blame all the stupid prime time attorney drama’s on TV giving young folks a false sense of what being a lawyer really is.

You know things are pretty screwed up when there was more lawyers in law school in New Jersey then practicing doctors in the whole state.


12 posted on 01/19/2010 5:39:39 AM PST by WaterBoard
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To: reaganaut1

Good.


13 posted on 01/19/2010 5:42:23 AM PST by pnh102 (Regarding liberalism, always attribute to malice what you think can be explained by stupidity. - Me)
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To: reaganaut1


As the profession lurches through its worst slump in decades,
with jobs and bonuses cut and internal pressures to perform rising,
associates do not just feel as if they are diving into the deep end,
but rather, drowning.

That’s the general view on a local “business-oriented” radio show on
Sundays here in Mid-Missouri.
Sad that this didn’t happen before lawyers (along with the worst of
the unions) did their best to drive industry out of Missouri/USA .


14 posted on 01/19/2010 5:42:33 AM PST by VOA
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To: WaterBoard

Over the years I have worked for a lot of lawyers are very few are rich. Our business is way down over the past year. I think going into any profession only because you believe it will make you rich is a bad idea.


15 posted on 01/19/2010 5:43:52 AM PST by ilovesarah2012
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To: reaganaut1

Man, I could barely read that article for all the tears! Ha!


16 posted on 01/19/2010 5:44:07 AM PST by Rummyfan (Iraq: it's not about Iraq anymore, it's about the USA!)
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To: reaganaut1

““Lawyers are famous for having high levels of depression and anxiety, but it has increased. Everybody’s morale is down.””
Good. Hope their suicide rate goes way up. They are cockroaches, and like cockroaches there are too many of them.


17 posted on 01/19/2010 5:48:16 AM PST by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: reaganaut1

.....“If I start this way at 23, goodness knows what it will be like when I’m 40.” ....

The outcome will be the same either way. You are a spinster destined to live a life without love or family. In San Francisco you are but female detritus


18 posted on 01/19/2010 5:52:34 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Tax the poor. Taxes will give them a stake in society)
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To: reaganaut1
We are a nation of lawyers and, for that, we will pay a heavy price, as law has nothing to do with justice, and everything to do with tyranny.
19 posted on 01/19/2010 5:54:23 AM PST by Navy Patriot (Sarah and the Conservatives will rock your world.)
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To: reaganaut1

What are the statistics? Something like 30,000 new lawyers every year, but only 3,000 engineering grad students?

Even in our politically-correct, litigious society where the Law itself has become a form of tyranny, requiring piles of “legal experts” for any issue - the market is saying “there are too many of you!”


20 posted on 01/19/2010 5:56:13 AM PST by PGR88
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To: reaganaut1

Great news .....
We have way to many lawyers and they are always looking to insert themselves in places they never used to be. Trying to gin up more work for themselves. Parasites, leeches

great news along with Martha Coakley losing.....another lawyer loser. Scott Brown is not a lawyer


21 posted on 01/19/2010 5:57:35 AM PST by dennisw (It all comes 'round again --Fairport)
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To: reaganaut1

Some of the enterprising unemployed lawyers should go to DC and become lobbyists ... for tort reform.


22 posted on 01/19/2010 6:03:53 AM PST by freespirited (People talk about "too big to fail." Our government is too big to succeed. --Chris Chocola)
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To: Graybeard58

Good lawyers seem to be non-existant.

I don’t know any that care about the Constitution !

(Any help ya’ll can give me getting the Uniform Child Abduction Prevention Act repealed in the states it has passed in would be great.)


23 posted on 01/19/2010 6:08:21 AM PST by Pikachu_Dad
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To: CIB-173RDABN
Lawyers are hesitant to go after one of their own. I had a really distasteful incident with a lawyer that had a clear conflict of interest in one of my personal cases and when I inquired to the board, I was given a ten page questionnaire to fill out and they told me I needed a lawyer to file a complaint. In Mississippi they make it so hard to go after a dishonest lawyer that it is rarely done. OTOH, when a lawyer does go down it is of Biblical proportions the crime that has been committed.
24 posted on 01/19/2010 6:14:53 AM PST by vetvetdoug (FUBO, a fashion statement for conservatives.)
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To: Woebama

“The big salaries they are talking about in this came with big city, big firms....”

you got that right Woebama....my daughter was a pardner in a blue ribbon K Street firm in Washington DC....she was making $350k gross...here’s where the money goes
$80-90k income taxes
$120,000 house note(to live in a white neighborhood in a very dangerous city)
$4000 lunch money(it costs money to eat down town even at your desk)
$3600 parking deck with armed security(no woman alone should try to park in an unattended lot at night in downtown DC)
$12,000 clothes(when you’re billing out at $600/hr you can’t meet with clients wearing a WalMart skirt)
$$72,000 (time lost in billable hours working pro bono on a capital murder case)
$10,000 yard man/maid/grocery service (when you’re at the office nights and weekends you don’t have time/energy to mow the yard)
$15,000 self directed IRA
$0000 car note...she drove a paid for Toyota.

She got let go 6 months ago....as a pardner she was expected to bring clients into the firm....you do that by joining the country club and schmoozing prospects on the golf course...or take them deep sea fishing ect...if you don’t bring in new business, you’re history at the firm.


25 posted on 01/19/2010 6:17:35 AM PST by STONEWALLS
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To: Pikachu_Dad
Good lawyers seem to be non-existant. I don’t know any that care about the Constitution !

You know one now. There are more of us out there. Some post on here. ;)

26 posted on 01/19/2010 6:17:53 AM PST by mikeus_maximus ("I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people.")
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To: reaganaut1

I am an attorney.

For the most part, life after law school has never been the pollyannish caricature shown above. For the top of the class a the top-tier schools, there may have been jobs waiting after law school. But, for the vast majority of law schoool graduates, law is like any other field — you have to start at the bottom, put in your time, earn your keep, and work your way up.

Starting salaries for fresh law school grads (at least in Texas) can be $50K to $75K (reasonably good, but certainly not exorbitant). Many attorneys start off doing unstable temporary work for a good hourly wage — $30-$40 bucks an hour or so — while looking for a permanent gig. They don’t hand out $75K per year jobs on the street corner ... finding a job with a law degree and no experience can take some time (particularly when every competitor in the market has the same degree, and likely more experience).

The earning potential for attorneys is good ... but you don’t just waltz out of law school and into a $150K job. It takes time, it takes work, it takes diligence ... just like any other industry.

FYI — this is not intended as a complaint, but a reality check for budding attorneys and non-attorneys that think the life of a law school graduate is like it looks on TV. I believe it is a good thing that most attorneys have to pay their dues.

SnakeDoc


27 posted on 01/19/2010 6:27:37 AM PST by SnakeDoctor (Life is tough; it's tougher if you're stupid. -- John Wayne)
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To: mikeus_maximus

I agree. I also stand firmly on the basis that the Constitution is set in stone and not a living breathing document that is changeable at a whim.


28 posted on 01/19/2010 6:31:28 AM PST by Dmitry Vukicevich
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To: dennisw

Scott brown IS a lawyer. Boston College Law School.


29 posted on 01/19/2010 6:39:56 AM PST by surrey
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To: SnakeDoctor
I believe it is a good thing that most attorneys have to pay their dues.

Everyone pays their dues.

30 posted on 01/19/2010 6:46:54 AM PST by Centurion2000 (Something is seriously wrong when the .gov plans to treat citizens worse than they treat terrorists)
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To: STONEWALLS

Yah, I forgot about the help . . . I was so middle class I didn’t realize I needed maids and so forth when working 80 hour weeks, so I was coming home and doing the dishes!


31 posted on 01/19/2010 9:21:49 AM PST by Woebama (Never, never, never quit)
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To: surrey

ooooops thanx


32 posted on 01/19/2010 9:32:20 AM PST by dennisw (It all comes 'round again --Fairport)
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To: reaganaut1
for other productive professions

The law is not a productive profession at all. It is friction on the engine of commerce and productivity.

If you raised taxes on lawyers (especially on huge awards) you would see wild economic growth.

33 posted on 01/19/2010 9:34:47 AM PST by AmishDude
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To: reaganaut1

It was only a few of years ago that Rush was telling us about DC law firms adding “scores of global warming litigators” to their staffs. Dollar signs bigger than tobacco leaves were dancing in their eyes...

I wonder how that’s working out for them?


34 posted on 01/19/2010 9:44:34 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Graybeard58

Most law is cut and paste. A paralegal can handle most standard transactions and legal issues including court.

You only need a good attorney for serious things or high risk ventures.


35 posted on 01/23/2010 3:46:14 PM PST by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: AmishDude

Some are. Most aren’t. Attorneys are a necessary part of business. Mine give good advice and smooth things out. I wouldn’t kill all the lawyers if I were you. ;-]


36 posted on 01/23/2010 3:51:47 PM PST by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: reaganaut1
So we know what at least one of the characters in that movie turned out to be when she grew up:

“Don’t care how, I want it nowwwwwwww!!!”

37 posted on 01/23/2010 4:01:17 PM PST by RichInOC (No! BAD Rich! (What'd I say?))
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To: dennisw
Scott Brown is not a lawyer ...

According to his bio he is ... went to the same law school (Boston College) that John (did you know he served in Vietnam?) Kerry attended.

38 posted on 01/23/2010 4:01:42 PM PST by BluH2o
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To: 1010RD

Scalia agrees with me.

Since they themselves (in Miranda) declared their salaries a constitutional right, I think it is entirely appropriate to cap their salaries as they are de facto government employees.

Accountants are much more valuable, but they aren’t a Congressman from Massachusetts or a Senator from New York.

More importantly, a law degree seems to be sufficient qualification for any government job, even though you can get through law school without taking one mathematics course.

It is dismaying that our country is run by people who, by and large, go there because they are too stupid to do math. Lest we forget that Obama’s only substantial qualification was his law degree.


39 posted on 01/23/2010 4:29:57 PM PST by AmishDude
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To: AmishDude

What’s really dismaying is that free men sent them there to rule.

It is the voters fault we have the government we have. Although my great aunt (83) says that nobody wanted Social Security, but they just passed it despite the objections of the voters. We still haven’t learned.

Government must be shrunkified. ;-]


40 posted on 01/23/2010 4:48:47 PM PST by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD

The problem that I have is that lawyers (particularly the elite Ivy grads) have way too much power. I have nothing against the very nice, professional gentleman who handled my mortgage refi. To the contrary, he was professional and I am quite convinced he was neither corrupt nor rich.

What also offends me is that they think I need them to “interpret” the Constitution. It ain’t long and it ain’t hard.

I am not an inferior citizen because I don’t have a law degree. Believe me, I could have gotten one, and if we do need philosopher-kings to rule over us, I think mathematics produces a better sieve.


41 posted on 01/23/2010 5:40:32 PM PST by AmishDude
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To: BluH2o

My mistake...he sure doesn’t come off like a lawyer. He omits their BS words and line of argumentation. The way 0bama speaks you can tell he’s a lawyer. Always using the word “clearly”

..... Talk about a tell and a give away on that fraud


42 posted on 01/23/2010 10:25:52 PM PST by dennisw (It all comes 'round again --Fairport)
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To: AmishDude

Since they themselves (in Miranda) declared their salaries a constitutional right
_________________
_________________

What do you mean by this? Lawyers are good on the verbal side of the SAT. Accountants, physicists, mathematicians excel on the math side of the SAT

I would love to see this country run by the mathematically adept. Get rid of every lawyer in Congress as an experiment and replace with bean counters and engineers etc. I think we would have better government and is it too much to expect a balanced budget?

When I think of a politician who is a lawyer I think of a verbally adept conman. Words are his currency. His stock in trade. He’s an actor who didn’t make it to Hollywood
0bama talks so much because he believes in the power of his words to overwhelm and persuade. Why not do your talking via what you do? Your actions? That’s not 0bama’s style, it’s just endless speechifying mostly via his teleprompter. Speaking the words that head speechwriter Jon Favreau has prepared


43 posted on 01/23/2010 11:40:33 PM PST by dennisw (It all comes 'round again --Fairport)
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To: AmishDude

I don’t know your trade, but the problem is that lawyers look at the law like a butcher looks at a cow - just so much product. That’s true across industries/trades.

Doctor’s struggle to keep a human face attached to their product as well.


44 posted on 01/26/2010 3:12:51 PM PST by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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