Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Austin Police statement on banning private sales at Texas Gun Shows (BATF unilaterally posted)
Examiner ^ | January 19, 4:42 PM | David Codrea

Posted on 01/19/2010 10:41:42 PM PST by Texas Fossil

Reports were coming in from forums and elsewhere that the Austin PD and the BATFE have mandated no private sales will be allowed. Thing is, there is no federal or state law giving them this authority. So I asked them if the reports were true and how they could do this:

(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: austinpolice; ban; banglist; batf; codrea; examiner; gunshow
Copies of letters from the Austin Police Department to the gun show promoter and an Open Records request regarding the Austin Police Department’s collaboration with the Bureau of Arms Tobacco and Alcohol which was listed.

"We have a problem Houston"??

1 posted on 01/19/2010 10:41:45 PM PST by Texas Fossil
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Texas Fossil

In further news, Texas gun owners have banned police and ATF from gun shows.


2 posted on 01/19/2010 10:45:44 PM PST by anonsquared (TEA PARTY 2010 - THROW 'EM ALL IN THE HARBOR!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Texas Fossil

Texas has an exclusionary clause - only the state Legislature may regulate commerce in firearms. Guess Austin PD didn’t pay attention to what happened when Houston tried a similar trick.

It didn’t work out well as the promoter sued and won millions off the City Of Houston.


3 posted on 01/19/2010 10:49:39 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: anonsquared
Only in Austin could this happen.

We shall see how this plays out, BATF had best be ready to answer some serious questions.

This is Still Texas where I live, contrary to what thinks it is.

4 posted on 01/19/2010 10:50:32 PM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Texas Fossil

Outrageous, they’re like cockroach zombies.


5 posted on 01/19/2010 10:51:22 PM PST by MonicaG (Thank you to our military & veterans, with love & gratitude. XOXOXO)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Texas Fossil

Help me to understand this.

From what I read, the Austin PD want to stop illegal aliens and convicted felons from buying guns while on the premises of the gun show (HEB owned center). In addition, they want to prevent private sales that have occurred in the parking lot in the past because, they say, those sales, in the past, were mostly the above mentioned illegals and felons.

Further, they have made an agreement with the ownership and management of the lot and gun show. The promoter of the gun show will now provide lot security and a means for private sellers to sell their guns inside the show.

If I have that correct, tell me why that’s bad. Honestly, I just don’t get it. And, yes, I am a gun owner and NRA member.


6 posted on 01/19/2010 11:01:07 PM PST by papasmurf (sudo apt-get install U-S-Constitution)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MonicaG

Yes, but with cockroaches it is clear what to do with them.

“Welcome to New Kenya (Africa USA)where the law of the jungle has replaced the Law of the Land.”


7 posted on 01/19/2010 11:02:23 PM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: papasmurf

There are many problems with this, not least of which being that it is illegal under state law for APD to even attempt to regulate commerce in arms in any way.

Just a guess, but you don’t live in Texas or attend gun shows, right? I am not being insulting, but if this is the case it explains why you may be overlooking some very important points.

Also, the BATFE’s own numbers say that criminals mostly steal their weapons or buy them off the black market - not buy them at a show.


8 posted on 01/19/2010 11:08:36 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Texas Fossil

I know; the nation in tension.


9 posted on 01/19/2010 11:09:07 PM PST by MonicaG (Thank you to our military & veterans, with love & gratitude. XOXOXO)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: papasmurf
Reports were coming in from forums and elsewhere that the Austin PD and the BATFE have mandated no private sales will be allowed. Thing is, there is no federal or state law giving them this authority.

The issue is a question of what really precipitated this. If this is a simple agreement by lessor and lessee that is one thing, but if it was "directed" by mandate of the BATF it is quite another. At this point it is not clear which is the case.

10 posted on 01/19/2010 11:09:45 PM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: papasmurf

If I wanted to sell one of my legal firearms on the street to another lawful buyer, where can that be construed as anything but an infringement of my, or the buyers right, to keep and bear arms by cops restricting where I can sell the firearm?
First it’s a gun show. Then the parking lot. Next my home? Where does the infringement stop once it is started?

I don’t care what the police motives are intended to save, stop, prevent, or otherwise intrude on legal firearms transactions by private citizens. It is still an infringement on the 2nd Amendment.

There are no gray areas here that I can see.


11 posted on 01/19/2010 11:11:21 PM PST by o_zarkman44 (Obama is the ultimate LIE!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: papasmurf

Because you are not a FFL holder (I assume) and do not fall under FFL guidelines. Its a bad thing because you don’t want the governemnt (on any level) preventing you from selling YOUR property to who ever you choose to. If you want to sell your tv to someone, do it. You want to sell your toaster to someone... do it. Same goes for a gun, its YOURS, selling it is a private matter. It baffles me that people want government regulating MORE basic freedoms in their lives.


12 posted on 01/19/2010 11:11:38 PM PST by GregoTX (When people find they can vote themselves money it will herald the end of the republic. Ben Franklin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: MonicaG

“in tension”

I think I would describe conditions in a bit stronger language.


13 posted on 01/19/2010 11:12:12 PM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: papasmurf

Here is another article you might want to read>

Obama Administration Shuts Down Oldest Gun Show in Central Texas

http://www.infowars.com/obama-administration-shuts-down-oldest-gun-show-in-central-texas/

The BATF engaged in mafia tactics in running a criminal conspiracy to shut down a gun show in Austin Texas, the Alex Jones Show heard Monday, direct from the man embroiled at the center of the Obama administration’s latest savage attack on the second amendment.

Following the staged arrest of a man by the Austin Police — subsequently released without charge — the BATF pressured lease holders HEB to shut down the oldest gun show in central Texas.

As revealed Monday on The Alex Jones Show, the BATF called the original meeting regarding the gun show and used threats and intimidation to shut down the event.


14 posted on 01/19/2010 11:17:40 PM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: papasmurf
From what I read, the Austin PD want to stop illegal aliens and convicted felons from buying guns while on the premises of the gun show (HEB owned center).

Sounds more like an excuse for the Government to further infringe upon our 2nd Amendment Right. If there's such a concern over illegal aliens buying guns... enforce existing laws and get rid of the illegal aliens.

15 posted on 01/19/2010 11:20:37 PM PST by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Texas Fossil

Well, first of all, good on the guy who sent that email inquiring about it. I think that action forced them to have that meeting, based only on what the author wrote.

Perhaps they talked about mandating it, or even gave the show an ultimatum, I don’t know. But I do know that my/our gun rights are put in jeopardy of restriction and/or legislation to curb our rights, every time an illegal or convict is sold a gun or commits a crime with a gun. So, I see the agreement itself, not the actions leading up to it, as a good thing.

Now I’m wondering if some of the cops that initiated this feel the same as I do and got out of hand with the idea.

In any respect, this was a good post, and the guy who sent that email should get a pat on the back.


16 posted on 01/19/2010 11:21:37 PM PST by papasmurf (sudo apt-get install U-S-Constitution)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Texas Fossil

APD is a bunch of pansies. Everything Austin is feeble and creepy.


17 posted on 01/19/2010 11:21:43 PM PST by Psalm 144 (NWO + compassionate conservatives = 0)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Texas Fossil

Austin is Scumbag Central. Isn’t that where Dan Rather and his daughter hang out?
In the middle of Texas, Austin is like a leper colony. My advice? Do the gun shows right outside the city limits the way Wal-Mart opens stores right outside the Dallas city limits. Screw ‘em,.


18 posted on 01/19/2010 11:25:51 PM PST by Lancey Howard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Texas Fossil

Well, the article says that it was shut down, then goes on a different track to talk about the show in Austin which was not shut. Both shows had the same landlord, HEB? I’m confused. LOL

I’ve got the last three or four issues of Rifleman and Freedom right here, and I don’t remember seeing one word of any of this. Has the NRA become that bad?


19 posted on 01/19/2010 11:36:20 PM PST by papasmurf (sudo apt-get install U-S-Constitution)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Texas Fossil

Short summary is that APD intimidated the property owner by the use of incorrect information to get the property owner to place restrictions on the event sponsor to place restrictions at the next show.

I believe that the best solution would be for the event sponsor to reject the terms and cancel further scheduling of the event until the property owner removes those restrictions


20 posted on 01/19/2010 11:42:03 PM PST by taxcontrol
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GregoTX

Agree completely. What were these cops even thinking—or were they? Exceeded authority, but this surprises me coming from Texas.


21 posted on 01/20/2010 12:03:10 AM PST by WKUHilltopper (Fix bayonets!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Texas Fossil

YYes only in Austin, Texas’s liberal bastion.


22 posted on 01/20/2010 2:31:44 AM PST by Joe Boucher (This marxist punk has got to go. (FUBO))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Joe Boucher

How does the line from that song go?

“...I don’t care, who’s in Austin, Bob Wills is STILL the king!”

Yup. Austin needs liberation. And it may be coming soon. If Mass. can pull it off, they can too. Unless everybody reasonable has left already...


23 posted on 01/20/2010 2:47:16 AM PST by Tigerized (Proud Dad of a US Marine)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Tigerized

And how about Calif?
Any crap neeeded unloaded there?

Also Marine Dad,
How is your Marine doing?
Giev that Marine a hug from us all.
God bless.


24 posted on 01/20/2010 3:15:39 AM PST by Joe Boucher (This marxist punk has got to go. (FUBO))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: papasmurf
"If I have that correct, tell me why that’s bad. Honestly, I just don’t get it. And, yes, I am a gun owner and NRA member."

It's bad because it allows the Austin PD and BATFE to assert authority in an area where they have none. The ONLY entity that has that authority in Texas is the legislature. If I lived in Texas, I'd be at that show, in the parking lot, with a gun for sale. And the promoter of the show should be hounded out of business for going along with this usurpation of authority.

25 posted on 01/20/2010 3:20:22 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: papasmurf
I’ve got the last three or four issues of Rifleman and Freedom right here, and I don’t remember seeing one word of any of this. Has the NRA become that bad?

Yes they have become that bad... many years ago.

26 posted on 01/20/2010 3:25:27 AM PST by AvOrdVet ("Put the wagons in a circle for all the good it'll do")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: papasmurf

The show was just this past weekend so it hasn’t had time to make it to any NRA monthly publication. The summary of the bad: no legal authority at either state or federal level for any of the involved agencies to issue edicts controlling sales by non-FFL holders. The facility used by both promoters is the same but the promoter of the 1/16-17 show is new to the business/area so it was easy to push him around as he had significant funds at risk if the landlord rescinded his rental agreement.


27 posted on 01/20/2010 4:27:39 AM PST by T-Bird45 (It feels like the seventies, and it shouldn't.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: papasmurf
"tell me why that’s bad."

Well, you've certainly gotten enough responses to your question from various legal aspects, but I note that one vital moral aspect has been missed here. The purported reason for this illegal action is a textbook example of how "authorities" tend to allow criminals to determine the freedoms allowed the law abiding, existing law be damned. That approach is exactly the opposite to American jurisprudence.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

28 posted on 01/20/2010 5:12:30 AM PST by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Psalm 144
Everything Austin is feeble and creepy.

Yes, I am well aware. My daughter lives in Williamson County just "outside" Austin. Enough said.

29 posted on 01/20/2010 6:20:15 AM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Texas Fossil

Old Sandinistas, old LBJ machine, old hippies, old radical feminists, meth, pot, the university.

Ugh. I was so glad to leave. Like California, a beautiful place ruined by the population.


30 posted on 01/20/2010 6:28:37 AM PST by Psalm 144 (NWO + compassionate conservatives = 0)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Psalm 144

“Power corrupts and absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely” Lord Acton

Power tends to be concentrated in the large cities, State captial cities especially. Hence the insanity the is common in State capital cities. Not excuse, just an observation.

Of course I must state that I live in very rural Fly Over Country.


31 posted on 01/20/2010 6:36:01 AM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Joe Boucher

Thanks for asking, Joe. Our Marine is pre deployment run up right now. How about yours?

As a native Californian, it makes me sick to see what’s happened to this once fine state. When I was a kid, we had the best roads, the best schools, a booming economy, and we were a proud bunch.

And now? Just take a look at our fleeing middle class, a growing illegal population that only sends money out of the country, empty retail and manufacturing space, foreclosures everywhere, and tone-deaf liberal politicians still intent on their bankrupt schemes.

Boxer has been a boil on my butt ever since she was a Marin County supervisor. I can’t wait until she’s gone.


32 posted on 01/20/2010 7:12:52 AM PST by Tigerized (Proud Dad of a US Marine)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Texas Fossil
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

It's really not that hard to understand, except if you live in Austin. They've gotten so smart in Austin that they have gone all the way back to stupid.

33 posted on 01/20/2010 8:23:25 AM PST by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Liberty Valance

Yep, you’re right about Austin. Arrogant, elitist educated (brainwashed) idiots.

I am not being critical about people with degrees (I have one), but only those who want to subject the rest of us to their wishes. Open slavery was eliminated many years ago in this country, except that which comes from the Government.

“A people ignorant and free never was and never will be” ~ T. Jefferson.


34 posted on 01/20/2010 8:30:27 AM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Joe Brower

“The purported reason for this illegal action is a textbook example of how “authorities” tend to allow criminals to determine the freedoms allowed the law abiding, existing law be damned.”

About that, I have no doubts, no illusions. A perfect example is the Patriot Act.

Thank you.


35 posted on 01/20/2010 9:54:53 AM PST by papasmurf (sudo apt-get install U-S-Constitution)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Tigerized

Your reasons are only some of why I, also a native, moved out of my beloved home State.


36 posted on 01/20/2010 9:57:56 AM PST by papasmurf (sudo apt-get install U-S-Constitution)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Tigerized

My family will pray for your Marine.
An American hero.
GOD bless/


37 posted on 01/20/2010 12:56:49 PM PST by Joe Boucher (This marxist punk has got to go. (FUBO))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Texas Fossil
Only in Austin could this happen.

Keep on believing that, and then come in here and feign shock when it happens in your area.

I've heard that some of the larger gun dealers have been quietly pushing and lobbying to do away with private sellers, because they want all the business to themselves and feel that they've somehow earned it, probably by contributing to political campaigns. This goes back several years, btw. Don't be surprised if the gun dealers had a hand in this.
38 posted on 01/20/2010 2:08:52 PM PST by af_vet_rr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson