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To: smokingfrog

Well, I might get flamed for this, but he has a point. 5,000,000 non-Jews died in the Holocaust and almost no one knows it. We only hear about the Jews, sometimes about Gypsies and homosexuals and that’s about it.


2 posted on 01/25/2010 7:56:13 PM PST by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: vladimir998

Yes but it was Stated and Planned policy to practice Genocide on the Jews.

Anyway this guy is an idiot.


7 posted on 01/25/2010 8:00:35 PM PST by Marty62 (former Marty60)
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To: vladimir998

Sadly, my DH had no clue that there was anyone but Jews killed in the Holocaust. He didn’t believe me that there were Catholics in the camps.


14 posted on 01/25/2010 8:13:36 PM PST by netmilsmom (I am Ilk)
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To: vladimir998

Yes, however, only the Jewish people faced the intentional threat of extinction as such. That is a qualitative difference between the treatment of the Jews and the treatment of non-Jews.


21 posted on 01/25/2010 8:29:51 PM PST by Oceander (The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance -- Thos. Jefferson)
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To: vladimir998
"Well, I might get flamed for this, but he has a point. 5,000,000 non-Jews died in the Holocaust and almost no one knows it."

Put into perspective, "The Holocaust" ranks only third in 20th century in terms of the numbers of victims. History is rife with holocausts. To claim that only a part of one is "The Holocaust" diminishes all of the victims and exonerates all perpetrators other than those motivated by antisemitism.

29 posted on 01/25/2010 8:55:40 PM PST by Natural Law
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To: vladimir998

“Well, I might get flamed for this,”

And deservedly so. Your comment might have been made in innocence, but it was also made in ignorance.

“but he has a point.”

Nonsense. No Jew or Jewish organization (Simon Wiesenthal Foundation, YIVO, etc.) has ever claimed that only Jews suffered or that non-Jews were not also marked for extermination by the Nazis. What irks many is that it has been mainly Jews and Jewish organizations that have researched these atrocities, published scholarly books and articles about them, pointed accusatory fingers at collaborators, and taken the dangerous step of hunting Nazis (including kidnapping them, if necessary) in order to bring them to justice. If you know of any homosexual organizations, or Gypsy organization that have done anything similar to this, please let me know.

“5,000,000 non-Jews died in the Holocaust and almost no one knows it.”

Baloney. Anyone interested in the subject can easily learn this. That it has not penetrated into popular consciousness is due precisely to what I mentioned above: to my knowledge, no homosexual or Gypsy has bothered to inform the public. Why is it the fault of Jews that the proverbial man-in-the-street might not know about the attempted Nazi extermination of homosexuals, Gypsies, Slavs, and Freemasons? Why is this not the fault of surviving homosexuals, Gypsies, Slavs, and Freemasons?

“We only hear about the Jews, sometimes about Gypsies and homosexuals and that’s about it.”

See above.

The reason Jews have concentrated on the specific Jewish experience with Nazism is because Jews in Germany were an integral part of German and European culture and were already noted for cultural achievements in medicine, music, philosophy, mathematics, etc., etc. and who fought patriotically for the Fatherland during WWI. Jews — not homosexuals — were (and still are) recognized as a unified culture, a “people.” Not so for homosexuals. Gypsies, indeed, are a people, but with a connection to European cultural achievements in art and science that were (and are) considered very different from that of Jews.

The Polish bishop also conveniently forgets that there was a great deal of Polish complicity with the SS Einsatzgruppen (mobile death squads) that would follow on the heels of the Wermacht as it blitzkrieged through town after town in eastern Europe, round up all the Jews and either shoot them outright, or poison them with carbon monoxide in special vans motorized vans. Millions of Jews were murdered this way, as opposed to dying in camps. Jewish homes and wealth were then expropriated, often by local Poles. This is not even controversial scholarship today, and has all been documented by academic scholars such as Raul Hilberg, as well as by the French documentary filmmaker Claude Lanzmann in his 9-hour documentary “Shoah.” I recommend you see it; you’ll learn a lot and it may stop you from making foolish “flame-worthy” statement later on.

The idea that SS Einsatzgruppen murdered millions of homosexuals in homosexual villages and towns across Eastern Europe in an attempt to erase a long-standing homosexual culture intertwined with the evolution of western civilization is ludicrous. You can replace “homosexual” with “Gypsy” and “Freemason” and it will be just as ludicrous.

Jews — not homosexuals, not Gypsies — were singled out for special treatment in propaganda attacks. There are many extant examples of Nazi-era high-school physics textbooks that would ask students questions such as these: “If a Jew weighing 80 kilograms is hanging by the neck on a gallows, what is the tension on the rope? Draw a force diagram.” Julius Streicher made a special point of attacking Jews in “Der Sturmer”, not Gypsies or homosexuals. Goebbels approved the making of a film called “Die Ewige Jude” (”The Eternal Jew”) in which Jews were likened to rats infesting a city; an infestation requiring extermination by poison gas. Jews were also attacked by a revival of an old Czarist-era anti-Semitic tract called “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” in which Jews were seen as acting in concert to take over the world through an international conspiracy of bankers and media moguls. I know of no similar tract accusing homosexuals or Gypsies of attempt to “take over the world.” I know of no similar event against homosexuals or Gypsies as the notorious “Kristallnacht.” I’m not claiming homosexuals and Gypsies weren’t made to suffer under the Nazis; I’m saying that I know of no similar action against them.

Instead of asking “Why didn’t Spielberg include equal time for homosexuals and Gypsies in ‘Schindler’s List’” it would be more productive to ask “Where are the films by homosexual filmmakers in Hollywood (there are many) about the suffering of homosexuals under Nazism? Where are the Gypsy filmmakers making films about the extermination of Gypsies during WWII?”


45 posted on 01/25/2010 11:23:09 PM PST by GoodDay (Palin for POTUS 2012)
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To: vladimir998
No flame but just a statement. The 5 million other peoples who died during the holocaust were not all of one race, ethnic identity or whatever you want to call it. Yes, it was terrible that the Germans killed about 11 to 12 million people(over and above the war related casualties), but it doesn't lessen the fact that 6 million of those 12 were all JEWS who were specifically targeted for extermination and if the war had dragged on longer even more would have died.

The German documentation doesn't mention the "mentally retarded problem", or any other "problem" but it does mention the Jewish problem. All the other deaths were incidental to the slaughter of the Jews.

71 posted on 01/27/2010 7:46:26 PM PST by calex59
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