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Jury Finds Man Guilty of Murder in Kansas Abortion Providerís Death
Foxnews.com ^ | 1/29/10

Posted on 01/29/2010 9:49:10 AM PST by FutureRocketMan

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If you ask me, this is a disgusting breach of "innocent until proven guilty." Roeder had to prove his innocence in this case, and this case shouldn't have been confined to the state either.
1 posted on 01/29/2010 9:49:10 AM PST by FutureRocketMan
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To: FutureRocketMan

And if you ask me, he should fry for premeditated murder.


2 posted on 01/29/2010 9:52:20 AM PST by DryFly
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To: FutureRocketMan

He was ‘pro-life’ ??

There a some nuts here that see this guy as a hero.


3 posted on 01/29/2010 9:54:20 AM PST by sickoflibs ( "It's not the taxes, the redistribution is spending you demand stupid")
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To: FutureRocketMan; Admin Moderator

First: Don’t change the title of the article. The proper title is “Jury Finds Man Guilty of Murder in Kansas Abortion Provider’s Death”. Use it - those are the rules.

Second: Roeder admitted he did it. He claimed that he did it to save more babies from being slaughtered, but he admitted he did it.

Roeder did the crime, he’ll do the time.

My opinion: A killer killed a killer. If we were to have people kill in disregard for the law - as bad as the law is - we’d have anarchy that would dwarf even the horror of abortion.


4 posted on 01/29/2010 9:56:36 AM PST by Yossarian
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To: DryFly

Of course. I can’t wait to see some of the idiot replies on this thread.


5 posted on 01/29/2010 9:58:17 AM PST by Hildy
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To: FutureRocketMan

Good call, murder is murder.


6 posted on 01/29/2010 9:58:43 AM PST by mnehring
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To: FutureRocketMan

The only disgusting breach of justice I see here is Kansas’s failure to apply the death penalty.


7 posted on 01/29/2010 9:59:15 AM PST by steve-b (Intelligent Design -- "A Wizard Did It")
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To: FutureRocketMan

Give him the needle.


8 posted on 01/29/2010 9:59:52 AM PST by DogBarkTree
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To: FutureRocketMan

I don’t understand what you mean...the prosecution had the biggest part of the case and proved it overwhelmingly.

Roeder confessed, but that isn’t enough for a conviction....there was eyewitness, DNA, blood evidence etc.


9 posted on 01/29/2010 10:02:17 AM PST by rwfromkansas ("Carve your name on hearts, not marble." - C.H. Spurgeon)
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To: FutureRocketMan

Yes, he had to prove himself innocent. That’s what happens when you put on an affirmative defense - the burden is on the defense not the prosecutor, which is as it should be in such cases.

By the way, the man is guilty as sin of murder in the first degree. You cannot use murder to justify the stopping of murder unless your life or the lives of other people is in imminent danger (a person according to the definition in the law is someone who has been born and taken a breath, and, in many jurisdictions, are no longer attached to the mother by the umbilical cord). Unfortunately a fetus is currently afforded no such protection. Until the laws are changed (and fat chance of that happening), fetuses will not be recognized as living persons.


10 posted on 01/29/2010 10:03:03 AM PST by SoldierDad (Proud Papa of two new Army Brats!! Congrats to my Army son and his wife.)
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To: DryFly

I agree with you. See #3.


11 posted on 01/29/2010 10:03:05 AM PST by sickoflibs ( "It's not the taxes, the redistribution is spending you demand stupid")
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To: sickoflibs
There a some nuts here that see this guy as a hero.

Scott Roeder was no hero for the pro-life cause, but abortion does indeed drive some people "nuts," and Roeder evidently wasn't able to explain that the tens of thousands of babies that Tiller killed, may have done just that to him. It was grossly unfair that he did not get to state his case in that regard. We just attended a funeral for a family friend that went "a little crazy" because his daughter went against his wishes (decades ago) and ended the life of her child through abortion. The man lost his job, his wife, and his good nature. He spent the remainder of his life in sadness because of the absence of his grandchild. Abortion is ugly. Abortion bears no fruit whatsoever. Abortion comes from the devil.
12 posted on 01/29/2010 10:04:26 AM PST by mlizzy ("Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person" --Mother Teresa.)
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To: steve-b
The only disgusting breach of justice I see here is Kansas’s failure to apply the death penalty.

Doesn't qualify. Absent one of the aggravating circumstances outlined in the law, killing a single person doesn't warrant the death penalty in Kansas. The minimum he can get is life, eligible for parole in 2035.

13 posted on 01/29/2010 10:05:34 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: FutureRocketMan

This was the correct verdict.


14 posted on 01/29/2010 10:05:52 AM PST by prairiebreeze (Prayers for the Ft. Hood families, victims and soldiers.)
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To: editor-surveyor; BlackElk

*ping*


15 posted on 01/29/2010 10:06:22 AM PST by fieldmarshaldj (~"This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps !"~~)
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To: FutureRocketMan

The only question here is how much time he should get.

I would go for the very minimum amount allowed under the law if on the jury, but there is no question he was guilty.


16 posted on 01/29/2010 10:06:34 AM PST by rwfromkansas ("Carve your name on hearts, not marble." - C.H. Spurgeon)
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To: FutureRocketMan

I posted this a few minutes ago on a thread that was removed by the Moderator as duplicate, which linked to CNN instead of Fox.

Unintentional, I’m sure, but I find it ironic that this linked website has a large red title: CNN JUSTICE.

Yes, this is CNN-style justice all right. I think perhaps his lawyer failed in the jury selection process.

One quotation from Roeder that I think sums up his position: “There was nothing being done, and the legal process had been exhausted, and these babies were dying every day,” Roeder said. “I felt that if someone did not do something, he was going to continue.”

One can provide two justifications for what he did: 1) The right of self defense also may be expanded to include defense of your “neighbor.” In this case, the defense of the innocent babies who would have been slaughtered by Tiller in the future.

2) Failure of the law to act. Tiller’s operation would have been closed down for numerous violations of Kansas law if he had not bribed the politicians, including Kathleen Sebelius, and if he had not used his dirty money to oust an honest prosecutor and elect a Democrat (who subsequently resigned in disgrace).

Voluntary manslaughter would have been an alternate finding that the jury could have settled on. But evidently they didn’t even bother to really deliberate the case. I’d say that the prosecutor did a good job picking this jury, perhaps with the judge’s help.


17 posted on 01/29/2010 10:08:11 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: mlizzy

This was entirely pre-meditated and therefore first degree murder.

The legal what if is what if he was killed in during the act of performing a late stage abortion? Would that protection or intense at the moment rage that wasn’t pre-meditated be 2nd degree murder?

I’m not defending him or saying he should have done it a different way than he did but wondering under what conditions this wouldn’t have been first degree murder.


18 posted on 01/29/2010 10:08:33 AM PST by PittsburghAfterDark
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To: FutureRocketMan

I’ll likely be banned for saying this, but....

If I had been on that jury, I’d voted Roeder “not guilty” because he stopped an arrogant mass murderer dead in his tracks.

In my humble opinion, Roeder’s was tantamount to the actions of those heroic Czech freedom fighters in 1942 who gunned down the monster Reinhard Heyrich, the head of the dread RHSA, the driving force behind the Holocaust and “The Hangman of Prague.”

The wrong man was on trial here. I can think of a long list of Leftist pro-abortion activists, judges and politicians who should be facing capital punishment for their role in the American Holocaust that has claimed over 30 million innocent lives since 1971.


19 posted on 01/29/2010 10:09:49 AM PST by Ronbo1948
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To: sickoflibs

What kills me(pardon the pun)is that the murder took place in a church.I’m anti-abortion but what he did was wrong,in every sense of the word.Tiller was scum,however,for performing late-term abortions,which is outright murder. I think a doctor would have to be sick and cold-hearted to perform such an abortion.In my mind the mother is no better,since she’s allowing her infant to be murdered.It’s not even up for debate;a partial-birth abortion is murder, plain and simple.


20 posted on 01/29/2010 10:10:48 AM PST by POWERSBOOTHEFAN (Blessed Be The Name Of The Lord,For His Name Alone Is Exaulted)
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To: FutureRocketMan

Premeditated murder should have gotten this nut case the death penalty.


21 posted on 01/29/2010 10:13:05 AM PST by Gator113 (Obama is America's First FAILED "light skinned African American [Pres-dent] with no Negro dialect..")
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To: SoldierDad

“Unfortunately a fetus is currently afforded no such protection. Until the laws are changed (and fat chance of that happening), fetuses will not be recognized as living persons.”

It sounds like you consider fetuses to be living persons. If so, do you believe he was morally justified though legally guilty of the crime?


22 posted on 01/29/2010 10:13:44 AM PST by swain_forkbeard (Rationality may not be sufficient, but it is necessary.)
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To: DryFly
And if you ask me, he should fry for premeditated murder.

All murderers should fry. But given that we usually only execute the most heinous of murderers, there is no reason why Roeder should be treated any differently than the average, run-of-the-mill murderer.

23 posted on 01/29/2010 10:14:09 AM PST by Ol' Sparky (Liberal Republicans are the greater of two evils)
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To: FutureRocketMan
Roeder had to prove his innocence in this case

Er, the guy shot a man down in cold blood in front of dozens of witnesses, and admitted it later. Not sure how he could "prove his innocence" in this case....

Let's face it - Roeder committed murder, and was not "pro-life." Sure, the man he killed was a disgusting, reprehensible piece of human garbage, but that doesn't give Roeder the right to kill him.

24 posted on 01/29/2010 10:15:01 AM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (We bury Democrats face down so that when they scratch, they get closer to home.)
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To: FutureRocketMan

Well, when the guy gets on the stand and admits he pulled the trigger, it kind of cuts down on deliberation time.


25 posted on 01/29/2010 10:15:31 AM PST by OCCASparky (Obama--Playing a West Wing fantasy in a '24' world.)
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To: FutureRocketMan

While many elements of this situation may remain in dispute for years to come, there is one thing of which we can be completely assured: George Tiller will not suck the brains out of another child or harvest their organs for profit any more.


26 posted on 01/29/2010 10:16:18 AM PST by RachelFaith (2010 might be bigger than 1994)
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To: sickoflibs

It’s not the approach I would take, but if you saw a man with an ax in a baby nursery, would you kill him to stop him from chopping up babies? I sure would.

So... if the babies were still in thw womb 3 days earlier, what is the differece?

I can see other options- since the ma with an ax is n IMMEDIATE threat but the oborion nurdered is only planning future murders of babies. Block accss to the building, buldoze it down, but don’t kill him.

The only thing about this trial on the other hand is that they asked him why he did it but then would not let him answer.

If he said he did it because the voices from mars told him to then that would be acceptable- but the prosecuton objected to any statements about abortion procedures

This man saved baby lives, but shold not have done it this way.


27 posted on 01/29/2010 10:17:05 AM PST by Mr. K (This administration IS WEARING OUT MY CAPSLOCK KEY!)
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To: Cicero

Voluntary manslaughter would have been an alternate finding that the jury could have settled on.

<><><><><><<

Except for the glaring fact that Roeder’s own testimony demonstrated premeditation. Voluntary manslaughter is, if I understand correctly, killing with no premeditation.

How could a jury possibly find him guilty of the lesser charge, given his testimony? The self defense angle in voluntary manslaughter still requires no premeditation to kill. And clearly, there was plenty of premeditation.


28 posted on 01/29/2010 10:17:08 AM PST by dmz
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To: Ronbo1948

And that’s why you wouldn’t be let within 10 miles of any jury.


29 posted on 01/29/2010 10:17:41 AM PST by OCCASparky (Obama--Playing a West Wing fantasy in a '24' world.)
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To: Hildy
Of course. I can’t wait to see some of the idiot replies on this thread.

Do you think all murderers should be put to death? It's outrageous to compare what Roeder did to the type of murders that have resulted in the death penalty in recent decades.

30 posted on 01/29/2010 10:18:17 AM PST by Ol' Sparky (Liberal Republicans are the greater of two evils)
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To: Ronbo1948

Legally guilty, but morally justified.


31 posted on 01/29/2010 10:19:18 AM PST by Let's Roll (Stop paying ACORN to destroy America! Cut off their government funding!)
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To: SoldierDad
Unfortunately a fetus is currently afforded no such protection. Until the laws are changed (and fat chance of that happening), fetuses will not be recognized as living persons.

Gee, since "fetus" is just the Latin word for "infant", does that make it okay for me to kill you as long as I say, "Well, it was only a homo hominus after all."?

32 posted on 01/29/2010 10:20:11 AM PST by Knitebane (Happily Microsoft free since 1999.)
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To: FutureRocketMan

Huh? He confessed.


33 posted on 01/29/2010 10:20:13 AM PST by Borges
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To: Gator113
Premeditated murder should have gotten this nut case the death penalty.

Premeditated murder doesn't get 99.9% of those that commit it the death penalty so it surely shouldn't get someone that killed someone infanticide the death penalty.

Your argument is only valid if you favor all murderers getting the death penalty.

34 posted on 01/29/2010 10:21:24 AM PST by Ol' Sparky (Liberal Republicans are the greater of two evils)
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To: FutureRocketMan

On the witness stand (and later on national TV) the guy confessed to every detail of the murder he committed including where in the head he shot Tiller. There is no defending premeditated murder.


35 posted on 01/29/2010 10:21:26 AM PST by DaGman
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To: RachelFaith

“... there is one thing of which we can be completely assured: George Tiller will not suck the brains out of another child or harvest their organs for profit any more.”

Exactly.


36 posted on 01/29/2010 10:21:55 AM PST by Let's Roll (Stop paying ACORN to destroy America! Cut off their government funding!)
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To: swain_forkbeard
If so, do you believe he was morally justified though legally guilty of the crime?

This may be relevant in an academic environment: however, in real life it has no practical impact.

37 posted on 01/29/2010 10:22:32 AM PST by verity (Obama Lies)
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To: FutureRocketMan

Technically correct verdict. By the law, he was guilty.

Of course, Claus von Stauffenberg was also guilty of attempting to murder Adolf Hitler.


38 posted on 01/29/2010 10:25:21 AM PST by Sloth (Civil disobedience? I'm afraid only the uncivil kind is going to cut it this time.)
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To: Yossarian
Second: Roeder admitted he did it. He claimed that he did it to save more babies from being slaughtered, but he admitted he did it.

Playing devil's advocate here - If Roeder had shot a perp who was going to kill another person, one who was lucky enough to have made it out of the womb alive, would he have been found guilty of murder?

39 posted on 01/29/2010 10:25:51 AM PST by IYAS9YAS (The townhalls were going great until the oPods showed up.)
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To: OCCASparky
Well, when the guy gets on the stand and admits he pulled the trigger, it kind of cuts down on deliberation time.

It didn't seem to harm Lon Horiuchi.

40 posted on 01/29/2010 10:27:28 AM PST by Knitebane (Happily Microsoft free since 1999.)
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To: OCCASparky

And that’s why it wasn’t a fair trial.


41 posted on 01/29/2010 10:29:27 AM PST by whatisthetruth
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To: Ronbo1948
If I had been on that jury, I’d voted Roeder “not guilty” because he stopped an arrogant mass murderer dead in his tracks.

Tell us how your reasoning would apply in this ongoing case:

"The two women, Patricia Imani and Brianna Herrera, admit that they lay in the offramp from Interstate 5 in an effort to block the Strykers.

Both women said they should be found not guilty because they had to protest and although it was illegal, it prevented a greater harm.

“We have an obligation to resist, not just a right to resist. That is what these protests have been about since we started to do the human blockades against the Strykers,” Imani said."

http://www.kirotv.com/news/22357712/detail.html

How are you different than these two women? I can't see anny difference.

42 posted on 01/29/2010 10:34:52 AM PST by Balding_Eagle (Overproduction, one of the top five worries of the American Farmer)
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To: OCCASparky

“Reinhard Tristan Eugen Heydrich (7 March 1904 – 4 June 1942) was a high German Nazi official. He was SS-Obergruppenführer (General) and General der Polizei, chief of the Reich Main Security Office (including the Gestapo, SD and Kripo Nazi police agencies) and Stellvertretender Reichsprotektor (Deputy Reich-Protector) of Bohemia and Moravia. When the Nazis moved the headquarters of Interpol to Berlin in 1942, he was appointed and served as President of that international law enforcement agency. Heydrich chaired the 1942 Wannsee Conference, which discussed plans for the deportation and extermination of all Jews in German-occupied territory. He was attacked by Czech agents on 27 May 1942 sent to assassinate him in Prague. He died slightly over a week later from complications arising from his injuries.”

I say the “good” abortionist was in the Heydrich league. He will not be missed. Justice has been served. I look forward to the day when the other abortionist monsters are tried by judge and jury.


43 posted on 01/29/2010 10:41:05 AM PST by Ronbo1948
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To: Cicero
I think perhaps his lawyer failed in the jury selection process.

That is not relevant to the failure of justice in this case; a different jury would have been equally unable to give him the death penalty under Kansas' soft-on-crime regime.

44 posted on 01/29/2010 10:43:07 AM PST by steve-b (Intelligent Design -- "A Wizard Did It")
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To: Let's Roll
If a murderer was roaming the streets, systematically killing hundreds of innocent victims and that murderer was clearly identified, the killing of that murderer would be morally justified.

I know what the law says but the law does not recognize what the abortion doctor was doing was clearly and scientifically proven to be the murder of helpless innocents.

The law allowing abortion of these innocents is an inhuman atrocity of monumental proportions.

There have been laws throughout history that are not moral. The Nuremberg Nazi trials were all about holding people accountable for inhuman atrocities that can never be morally justified by claiming the atrocities were legal under governmental laws and required by the orders of leaders.

We humans MUST prevent atrocities and murders that violate fundamental moral law.

We are a morally bankrupt society to allow the murder of innocents.

45 posted on 01/29/2010 10:45:41 AM PST by NoControllingLegalAuthority (Tyranny - are we there yet?)
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To: FutureRocketMan

May 31 was a happy day for many many children.


46 posted on 01/29/2010 10:45:49 AM PST by eleni121 (For Jesus did not give us a timid spirit , but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline)
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To: FutureRocketMan
The doctor was murdered in a church on Sunday. No abortions were taking place or scheduled to take place in the church on Sunday.

If the object was to prevent abortions on Monday, taking a baseball bat and breaking the doctor's hands would have prevented abortions in the immediate future and, depending on the injuries inflicted, may have prevented the doctor from ever performing an abortion again, without killing the doctor.

Fry ‘em.

47 posted on 01/29/2010 10:49:06 AM PST by Cheburashka (It's a _happy_ Russian novel. Everybody still dies, but everybody dies happy.)
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To: Mr. K; POWERSBOOTHEFAN; mlizzy; DryFly
RE :”It’s not the approach I would take, but if you saw a man with an ax in a baby nursery, would you kill him to stop him from chopping up babies? I sure would.

Premeditated killing him like this guy did would be making myself: judge, jury and executioner. Furthermore, the term ‘murder’ used so freely to justify murder is a legal technical term. What if Code-Pink or ANSWER started killing US soldiers because they are convinced that innocent Iraqi's were being murdered by americans(as some elected democrats irresponsibly claimed on TV) ??? They could claim the same bogus defense.

Is pro-life just a PR term? How does this look?

He should have tried temporary insanity or insanity.

48 posted on 01/29/2010 10:49:47 AM PST by sickoflibs ( "It's not the taxes, the redistribution is spending you demand stupid")
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To: mlizzy
Abortion comes from the devil.

Now this is more truth than the American people can stand.

49 posted on 01/29/2010 10:51:31 AM PST by Theodore R. (...)
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To: Ronbo1948

And the fact that you and your ilk “rejoice” in Tiller’s death tells more about you than you’re willing to admit, and it’s not a pretty picture. Tiller was a vile human being, but make no mistake—he was performing a LEGAL procedure, and the fact that you celebrate someone who went outside the law and murdered him in a house of God tells me your motives are not God’s motives. Deal with that little tidbit. You have done the pro-life movement no favors.


50 posted on 01/29/2010 10:52:08 AM PST by OCCASparky (Obama--Playing a West Wing fantasy in a '24' world.)
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