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Jury Finds Man Guilty of Murder in Kansas Abortion Providerís Death
Foxnews.com ^ | 1/29/10

Posted on 01/29/2010 9:49:10 AM PST by FutureRocketMan

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To: FutureRocketMan
I am Pro (innocent) Life. This guy knew what he was doing and will pay the consequences both here and hereafter.

That said, that doesn't change the FACT that many babies will not be butchered because this EVIL man (Tiller the baby killer) was sent directly to hell.

Ask yourself, what kind of church allows a practicing murderer in their congregation? Kill babies all week and then attend church on Sunday. HUH? Then back to work on Monday. I wonder if, while actually performing the murders, he reflected on the pastors message on Sunday.

Did he think he was becoming more like Jesus as he pulled off the arms and legs of little babies? Did he PRAY before he committed these heinous acts? (He might have).

A bullet to his brain was a far too compassionate execution. He should have had his arms & legs pulled off before his brain was sucked out and skull crushed. Closer to an eye for an eye.

Myself, I am not willing to pay the price for killing anyone. I would not encourage or promote the killing of abortionists, BUT I will not mourn their deaths. The TRUTH that many will live because of his death makes me think of the countless number of lives that would have been saved if the event of his murder had taken place earlier. Just logic.

As for his family? Like they didn't know what he did for a living? That they didn't know that the very food on their table was soaked in the blood of human sacrifices? What kind of people can do this (abortions)? Sanction this? Financially or politically support this?

If you are pro “choice”,
Repent, ask His forgiveness, and sin no more.

51 posted on 01/29/2010 10:52:32 AM PST by faucetman (Just the facts ma'am, just the facts)
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To: Non-Sequitur

Dont be so sure about that. There are meetings going on today in the Kansas Legislature I understand that may change that law over this.


52 posted on 01/29/2010 10:52:44 AM PST by Concho
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To: Balding_Eagle

I’m not an anarchist. The women who blocked the military vehicles were rightly arrested and tried. Mr Roeder was rightly arrested and tried, and to his credit, “manned up” and took responsibility for his actions and explained why to the jury.

In Ayn Rand’s book, “The Fountainhead” Howard Roark blows up an entire city block of a public housing project, because his design was changed by the bureaucrats in charge after breaking their word that Roark’s plans would not be changed.

So if something goes against your conscience and you exhaust all avenues of redress and decide to take the law into your own hands, then you should “man up” and take the punishment, which in this case Mr. Roeder has done like a Randian hero.


53 posted on 01/29/2010 10:53:25 AM PST by Ronbo1948
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To: whatisthetruth

Haven’t served on a jury lately, have ya?


54 posted on 01/29/2010 10:53:47 AM PST by OCCASparky (Obama--Playing a West Wing fantasy in a '24' world.)
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To: DogBarkTree

I think KS is one of the twelve states which has no capital punishment. Also WV


55 posted on 01/29/2010 10:54:01 AM PST by Theodore R. (...)
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To: whatisthetruth

It wasn’t a fair trial because people whose minds were already made up (one way or the other) prior to seeing any evidence were excluded? You have an unusual sense of fairness vis a vis jury slection.


56 posted on 01/29/2010 10:54:27 AM PST by dmz
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To: Knitebane
It didn't seem to harm Lon Horiuchi.

IIRC, he was charged. And IIRC further, Dr. Tiller was not armed.
57 posted on 01/29/2010 10:55:48 AM PST by OCCASparky (Obama--Playing a West Wing fantasy in a '24' world.)
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To: POWERSBOOTHEFAN
Well, church is a general term used for a place of congregating for the sake of “religion”. That building is not a “church” of the “Christian” variety.... What is being espoused in that particular place is no more the gospel of Christ, than cotton balls are building materials for skyscrapers. Tiller was not flying below the radar there; who and what he was was known and accepted. Stuff happens.
58 posted on 01/29/2010 10:55:58 AM PST by TheGunny
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To: OCCASparky

Legal doesn’t equal moral. It was “legal” in this country to keep human beings in bondage, too.


59 posted on 01/29/2010 10:57:39 AM PST by fieldmarshaldj (~"This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps !"~~)
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To: sickoflibs

I don’t go with the terms prolife or prochoice. I believe in calling it pro-abortion and anti-abortion.

That said, while I will not weep for the dead doctor, the proper verdict was given.


60 posted on 01/29/2010 10:58:15 AM PST by beandog
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To: fieldmarshaldj

That’s right—and when the legal process failed, the bloodiest war in our history was a result. You think the law is something to be ignored at a whim or when it’s no longer convenient to do so?


61 posted on 01/29/2010 10:59:36 AM PST by OCCASparky (Obama--Playing a West Wing fantasy in a '24' world.)
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To: OCCASparky
And IIRC further, Dr. Tiller was not armed.

With a gun.

He still managed to kill a lot of unborn infants.

62 posted on 01/29/2010 11:00:09 AM PST by Knitebane (Happily Microsoft free since 1999.)
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To: FutureRocketMan

Tiller’s murder will only harden other abortionists to kill even more babies. The only way abortion will end is if people are convinced it is evil. Because of this, people will think pro-lifers are on the side of evil.


63 posted on 01/29/2010 11:00:35 AM PST by ari-freedom (Let me be clear: Obama sux)
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To: Cicero

[Voluntary manslaughter would have been an alternate finding that the jury could have settled on. But evidently they didn’t even bother to really deliberate the case.]

The judge threw out consideration of the lesser charge. The only charge he could be convicted on was 1st degree murder.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,584194,00.html


64 posted on 01/29/2010 11:01:32 AM PST by KansasGirl
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To: OCCASparky

You mean on a partial jury? The answer is no.


65 posted on 01/29/2010 11:01:37 AM PST by whatisthetruth
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To: OCCASparky
Can we please not use the term “house of God” when talking about this or like instituitons that condone and sacntion the killing of the unborn? God does NOT reside there! God does not sanction or otherwise endorse ABORTION, HOMOSEXUALITY or the ORDINATION of said HOMOSEXUALS. God? What god is it that you are speaking of here?
66 posted on 01/29/2010 11:01:44 AM PST by TheGunny
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To: Ronbo1948

I say the “good” abortionist was in the Heydrich league. He will not be missed. Justice has been served. I look forward to the day when the other abortionist monsters are tried by judge and jury.

<><><>><<><><><

I think you are being disingenuous with your last statement. It does not appear that you care whether or not the abortion docs are tried in a court of law or shot down in their churches.


67 posted on 01/29/2010 11:01:58 AM PST by dmz
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To: FutureRocketMan

Something stinks in Kansas. Specifically the juries.


68 posted on 01/29/2010 11:02:57 AM PST by eleni121 (For Jesus did not give us a timid spirit , but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline)
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To: dmz

A really fair, impartial jury on the subject of abortion is hard to find these days.


69 posted on 01/29/2010 11:04:10 AM PST by whatisthetruth
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To: Ronbo1948
I’m not an anarchist.

What would you call someone who champions murder?

70 posted on 01/29/2010 11:05:08 AM PST by Balding_Eagle (Overproduction, one of the top five worries of the American Farmer)
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To: FutureRocketMan
This was open and shut. Roeder confessed, in detail, probably against the wishes of his attorney.

The only possible way his defense could have worked is if Roeder shot Tiller in the clinic right before he was going to kill a baby. That's it. There was no chance it can work without jury nullification since Roeder shot him in a church where nobody was in imminent danger. Imminent is the key word.

I'm not shedding any tears for Tiller's death, but Roeder shouldn't have made a martyr out of him.

71 posted on 01/29/2010 11:05:28 AM PST by Darren McCarty (I don't look for leaders. I follow my own path, my way.)
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To: eleni121

“Something stinks in Kansas.”

You are exactly right, something does stink in Kansas.

Specifically, that stink will be emanating from Scott Roeder who will be rotting in a Kansas prison.


72 posted on 01/29/2010 11:06:51 AM PST by trumandogz (The Democrats are driving us to Socialism at 100 MPH -The GOP is driving us to Socialism at 97.5 MPH)
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To: OCCASparky

The bloodiest time in our history has been since after a certain SCOTUS decision in 1973, and it makes the Civil War casualties look like a Sunday afternoon picnic. I’d rather be in Roeder’s shoes on Judgment Day than Tiller’s.


73 posted on 01/29/2010 11:08:49 AM PST by fieldmarshaldj (~"This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps !"~~)
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To: OCCASparky

I served on a jury years ago in Florida. This was a murder trial.I voted the defendant “not guilty” because in my opinion the Government did not prove its case. I was the only “not guilty,” so the case was retried with the result the defendant was found “not guilty” and released from custody after serving 18 months for a crime he didn’t commit.

Oh! And the real murderer was later captured, convicted and executed.


74 posted on 01/29/2010 11:09:42 AM PST by Ronbo1948
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To: eleni121

Something stinks in Kansas. Specifically the juries.

<><><><><<><

How do you figure that? The only charge the jury could consider, by judge’s order, was 1st degree murder. Given that Roeder admitted murder and premeditation, how could the jury have found differently?

When juries decide based on who they like or trust/dislike or distrust, we get folks like OJ Simpson running free. Juries need to base their decisions on the facts, and the facts in this case are quite clear, 1st degree murder.


75 posted on 01/29/2010 11:11:05 AM PST by dmz
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To: OCCASparky
And the fact that you and your ilk “rejoice” in Tiller’s death tells more about you than you’re willing to admit, and it’s not a pretty picture.

What isn't pretty is that anyone would not celebrate the death of a monster -- no matter how it occurred -- that killed tens of thousands of fully-formed, perfectly health infants for reasons not related to the health of the mother.

And, no, that isn't an endorsement of Roeder's actions.

His death should be just as much a reason to rejoice as the death Osama Bin Laden or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Only those with no respect for human life would not feel that way.

76 posted on 01/29/2010 11:11:29 AM PST by Ol' Sparky (Liberal Republicans are the greater of two evils)
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To: whatisthetruth

A really fair, impartial jury on the subject of abortion is hard to find these days.
<><><><><><

I agree with the judge on this point, this trial was not about abortion, it was about Roeder committing murder.


77 posted on 01/29/2010 11:12:24 AM PST by dmz
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To: verity

“...in real life it has no practical impact.”

Hmmm. Also the question is difficult to answer, I think. In any case it has not been answered.

But even if this question has no practical impact on “real life”, what about after-life? Isn’t that the real test of the biggest moral questions?


78 posted on 01/29/2010 11:12:45 AM PST by swain_forkbeard (Rationality may not be sufficient, but it is necessary.)
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To: swain_forkbeard
It sounds like you consider fetuses to be living persons. If so, do you believe he was morally justified though legally guilty of the crime?

No. Tiller still, slim of chance as he had, could have changed his ways before his next legal murder.

If Roeder did this, at the clinic, right before Tiller was killing a baby in immediate danger, then I could see a possible defense, legally or morally.

79 posted on 01/29/2010 11:13:42 AM PST by Darren McCarty (I don't look for leaders. I follow my own path, my way.)
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To: TheGunny
Exactly. What kind of a church willfully harbors a bloodthirsty monster in their midst ? If he were to have gone into the church to seek forgiveness and halt his performing infanticides, it would be one thing, but the parishioners knew what he did, what he continued to do, and stood by him. It's rather poetic justice a monster would be struck down in a blaspheming pretend-church. The Lord WILL NOT be mocked.
80 posted on 01/29/2010 11:13:51 AM PST by fieldmarshaldj (~"This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps !"~~)
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To: FutureRocketMan

He murdered a man in cold blood. This is not a thing a follower of Christ would do. He must pay the penalty and repent if he wants to reach heaven.


81 posted on 01/29/2010 11:14:03 AM PST by vpintheak (How can love of God, Family and Country make me an extremist?)
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To: trumandogz
Specifically, that stink will be emanating from Scott Roeder who will be rotting in a Kansas prison.

The stench is being admitted from Tiller the Killer's grave. Thank God, he is dead and can kill no more infants.

82 posted on 01/29/2010 11:14:15 AM PST by Ol' Sparky (Liberal Republicans are the greater of two evils)
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To: OCCASparky

[he was performing a LEGAL procedure]

No, he wasn’t. The abortions he was performing were on perfectly healthy, viable infants and they WERE NOT LEGAL in the state of Kansas. However, he had used his blood money to buy himself protection and political clout. He owned our Governor, Kathleen Sebelius and took out the state attorney general, Phil Kline, who dared to enforce the law.

http://law.findlaw.com/state-laws/abortion/kansas/


83 posted on 01/29/2010 11:14:53 AM PST by KansasGirl
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To: Balding_Eagle

Where did I say I championed murder? I said in effect, “If you dance the tune, you pay the piper.”


84 posted on 01/29/2010 11:16:20 AM PST by Ronbo1948
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To: dmz

Regardless what you and the judge thinks, this was all about the issue of abortion.


85 posted on 01/29/2010 11:16:25 AM PST by whatisthetruth
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To: fieldmarshaldj

“If he were to have gone into the church to seek forgiveness and halt his performing infanticides....”

Perhaps, that was Tiller’s plan for that Sunday in his church, but instead he was murdered.


86 posted on 01/29/2010 11:18:20 AM PST by trumandogz (The Democrats are driving us to Socialism at 100 MPH -The GOP is driving us to Socialism at 97.5 MPH)
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To: SoldierDad
a person according to the definition in the law is someone who has been born and taken a breath, and, in many jurisdictions, are no longer attached to the mother by the umbilical cord

And that is where the law ceases to be relevant to me. If I kill a baby that's still attached to the umbilical cord I've still killed a baby, to hell with what the law says or the jurisdiction it occurs in. It would be moral to use lethal force to stop me, if I were in the process of attempting it, regardless of whether the law says so or not. Laws do not dictate right and wrong. If they happen to coincide, so be it. If they happen to violate someone's rights or refuse to recognize personhood, then civil disobedience might be called for. This was not civil though, and it was not called for and on that I agree with the jury's decision.

The mistake all these murderers make is that they're not saving any baby in imminent danger. You can't kill someone just because they promised to kill others, even if they've done so in the past. It's not legal regardless of whether the promised future-murders would be recognized by the law as murder or not. He didn't save anyone by killing Tiller, nor could he. Someone else will just take Tiller's place, and you can't even point to any particular life "saved" as a result of this with any level of confidence. The only true way to save someone is to expose the evil that is abortion and advocate a change in the law while educating mothers-to-be out of that decision.
87 posted on 01/29/2010 11:20:22 AM PST by messierhunter
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To: DryFly

No. The first obligation of the state is to protect the life of its citizens.

Roeder’s action, while extreme, can be viewed as a rational response to rampant killing of human life that the state refused to halt.


88 posted on 01/29/2010 11:20:54 AM PST by Elpasser
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To: FutureRocketMan

He should be pardoned.


89 posted on 01/29/2010 11:21:00 AM PST by TexasFreeper2009 (Somewhere in Kenya a village is missing it's idiot.)
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To: KansasGirl

“he was performing a LEGAL procedure]

No, he wasn’t. The abortions he was performing were on perfectly healthy, viable infants and they WERE NOT LEGAL in the state of Kansas. However, he had used his blood money to buy himself protection and political clout. He owned our Governor, Kathleen Sebelius and took out the state attorney general, Phil Kline, who dared to enforce the law.

Excellent point! What Tiller was doing, de facto, was what the Nazis did in their death camps, although the tiny victims were a diverse bunch. So clearly the Leftists believe mass murder is okay as long as its done without regard to race, creed, or religion.


90 posted on 01/29/2010 11:22:19 AM PST by Ronbo1948
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To: Ronbo1948
I said in effect, “If you dance the tune, you pay the piper.”

You also said:

If I had been on that jury, I’d voted Roeder “not guilty”

Which is it? 'Pay the piper', or 'not guilty'?

91 posted on 01/29/2010 11:22:54 AM PST by Balding_Eagle (Overproduction, one of the top five worries of the American Farmer)
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To: FutureRocketMan

If we could stretch slightly, just slightly the term “abortion”, we could argue that Mr Roeder performed a legal art of post-partum aborion. (If we even have to stretch it, since we all know that infants have been and are being legally murdered outside the womb, as part of what passes nowadays for “ legal abortion”.)


92 posted on 01/29/2010 11:23:17 AM PST by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: trumandogz

rotting....I was of course referring to the juries in Kansas.

along with Tiller’s rotting corpse.


93 posted on 01/29/2010 11:23:24 AM PST by eleni121 (For Jesus did not give us a timid spirit , but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

“He should be pardoned”

I second the motion!


94 posted on 01/29/2010 11:24:17 AM PST by Ronbo1948
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To: trumandogz
Specifically, that stink will be emanating from Scott Roeder who will be rotting in a Kansas prison

You may not seem to realize that Roeder was willing to give his life for what he felt was the defense of others and obviously feels his ultimate reward goes far beyond any punishment this earthly life can administer upon him.

95 posted on 01/29/2010 11:24:17 AM PST by whatisthetruth
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To: swain_forkbeard

I do believe that a fetus is a living person. No I do not believe this man, nor any other, is morally justified in committing murder. Murder is prohibited by God and law. While, IMHO, abortion is murder, murder cannot be the way to end this practice.


96 posted on 01/29/2010 11:27:20 AM PST by SoldierDad (Proud Papa of two new Army Brats!! Congrats to my Army son and his wife.)
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To: sickoflibs

geez you missed the entire point by the fact you you stated MY point


97 posted on 01/29/2010 11:27:21 AM PST by Mr. K (This administration IS WEARING OUT MY CAPSLOCK KEY!)
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To: Darren McCarty
If Roeder did this, at the clinic, right before Tiller was killing a baby in immediate danger, then I could see a possible defense, legally or morally.

Bingo! Beat me to it. That never happens though, and it's a far cry from what happened here. More importantly, all this does is give the forces of evil a new martyr. We have to fight this through educating moms on just how much their babies really can feel and respond to stimuli, etc and by getting people into power who can change the makeup of the supreme court and one day overturn the current stance.
98 posted on 01/29/2010 11:28:24 AM PST by messierhunter
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To: Balding_Eagle

I’m not going to respond to you. I said what I said and said it quite clearly. You have problems with it. End of message.


99 posted on 01/29/2010 11:28:59 AM PST by Ronbo1948
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To: Yossarian

He killed a mass murderer. The man was stopped from killing innocent children. Guilty for murder is the right and only verdict.


100 posted on 01/29/2010 11:30:39 AM PST by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand;but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc 10:2)
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