http://www.chooseyouritem.com/classics/files/1156500/1156619.html
Posted on 02/02/2010 7:59:54 AM PST by wrrock
In a 911 call, a California Highway Patrol officer and three relatives can be heard telling each other to hold on and pray before their car veered off the highway, drove over an embankment, flipped and exploded into flames killing all four inside the car.
Mark Saylor, 45, his wife Cleofe, 45, their daughter Mahala, 13 and brother-in-law Chris Lastrella, 38, died in the crash on Highway 125.
Warning: This audio is graphic and shocking.
LISTEN TO 911 CALL...
The incident has prompted a massive recall and investigation into Lexus and Toyotas’ floor mats. The recall affects floor mats in 2007 and 2008 Lexus ES 350 vehicles and many Toyota models. In the meantime, officials urge drivers of these cars to remove their floor mats.
The list: * 2007-10 Camry * 2005-10 Avalon * 2004-09 Prius * 2005-10 Tacoma * 2007-10 Tundra * 2007-10 Lexus ES350 * 2006-10 Lexus ES250 * 2006-10 Lexus IS350
If you find yourself in this situation, the key is to remain calm and put the car in neutral until the car slows down enough so you can safely pull off the road.
(Excerpt) Read more at cardealerreviews.org ...
No excuse for the defect, but there is also no excuse for not knowing what to do if the throttle sticks.
One of many reasons why I drive a vehicle with a manual transmision.
>> the key is to remain calm and put the car in neutral
... but not necessarily in that order. :-)
Well, fine, but auto-transmission cars have a NEUTRAL setting, too.
>> One of many reasons why I drive a vehicle with a manual transmision.
Yeah, and also one of the many reasons that my old truck doesn’t have floormats.
I’ve heard this, and it is indeed terrible and frightening. Toyota is liable, don;t get me wrong, but...
I don;t understand why the driver would not begin downshifting, or place the car in neutral and then turn the key to cut the engine power. It must be horrifying to have the accelerator stick, especially with your family in the car. The level of panic I can’t imagine - but aren’t there ways to stop or even slow the car enough for at least a survivable collision into a guardrail?
Any thoughts on this? Downshift-neutral-power off-emergency brake. That would be my plan.
If the driver had simply shifted the vehicle into neutral and applied the brakes the accident could have been avoided. No matter how hard the accelerator is pressed, a vehicle in neutral will only coast. I find it hard to believe the accelerator stuck and the brakes failed at the same time, but even if he had no brakes, the car would eventually slow to a stop, if placed in neutral.
The 9-11 opearator was an IDIOT for wasting time trying to determine the car’s exact location, rather than telling the drive to do this.
I agree. Not to demean those who died, but who would call 911 in a case like this? I mean, what the hell was he expecting? Overdependence on cell phones and not enough common sense to put the transmission in neutral, just unbelievable.
Of course, in this day in age people allow themselves to be locked out of their vehicle in a blizzard because their security alarm key fob's batteries died.
Me too. They’re getting tought to find.
I have to admit I was ignorant of what to do if this happened and when it happened to me at a busy intersection on a 2 lane road I just turned off the engine. I was able to pull onto the shoulder.
I just talked to a salvage guy yesterday and he says this has been a problem for many years.
OK, so accelerator sticks AND the brakes go out. Now that is some bad luck. I’d shift in neutral, park, reverse whatever else I could do. And even turning off ignition (depending on position for wheel lock). Normally I’d say, “sure easy for me to say when not in panic situation”, but there didn’t appear to be a panic, they pulled out cell phone, dialed it and had a nice conversation with the officer.
I’d check the phone number that call came from to make sure it wasn’t from the U.S. Automobile Czar about 2 weeks after the actual crash.
Indeed, but downshifting is instinct if you drive stick every day. Not so if all you drive is an automatic.
I’m hardcore about freedoms, but one thing I’ve always thought was a good idea (let me put on my flame suit first) was to require a retaking of the drivers license test every four or five years. They tell you how to avoid burnouts, hydroplanes, what to do if the accelerator sticks or brakes fail etc etc. Then everyone goes out and screws up even things like right of way at a 4way stop. IMHO it would do a world of good to keep people skilled behind the wheel. Thoughts?
Automatics have a N “gear”.
Be that as it may, to be a better driver, one really should learn to drive a manual/stick shift.
What about the brakes? The emergency brake?
>> Any thoughts on this? Downshift-neutral-power off-emergency brake.
“Some say” that turning the key off is a bad idea. I can think of two reasons why — and there may be more.
1) You lose power steering (but not all steering)
2) On some cars, if you turn the key ALL the way to off, your steering wheel will lock.
But I’m with you — I’d turn the car off, and I’d do that FIRST. As for reason 1) I have power steering by Armstrong. And as for 2), well, I won’t DO that.
Once the car is off, THEN shift to neutral (or push in the clutch). Neutral or clutch in while gassing the engine could blow the motor up. Of course compared to dying that’s not such a big deal.
Now, as for brakes — once the car was off or in neutral I’d try the REGULAR brakes first, emergency brakes as a last resort. Unlike the emergency brake, you can modulate your regular brakes, provided they still work and I don’t know why they wouldn’t.
So my plan would be: Car off, neutral (or clutch), brake and pull over.
Just my 2c worth; I pray it never happens to us, although Mrs. Tick *does* have one of the cars on the list. But we know about the floormat problem and we’re smarter than the average fifth grader so we have dealt with the issue ourselves.
FRegards
Please see the following article posted to The Market Ticker blog. According to the author, the brakes on the car were applied until they literally disintegrated from the heat. Additionally, the drive by wire system on the car prevented the driver from manually shifting to neutral due to the load being applied. Very tragic accident, but so very avoidable if ‘overrides’ were in place. Here’s the link: http://market-ticker.org/archives/1922-Toyota-Cars-See,-I-Told-You-So.html
It's surprising that that isn't the current state of Toyota vehicles.
my=me
I would not kill the power to the car while moving. You'll lose your power steering. Let the engine blow if you have to. You'll get another for free.
Turn the key to off?
Shift to neutral?
Downshift?
Shift to Reverse? (kills engine immediately - don’t ask how I know.)
Shift to Park?
Stand on brakes?
Exactly. Disengage!!! I teach my children this simple process when they learn how to drive.
>> I mean, what the hell was he expecting?
Bet he recalled this one episode of CHiPs he saw once, where they sent a helicopter with McGyver and a big grappling hook...
Yeah, between teevee and the pervasive nanny state, society’s common sense and problem solving skills sure rolled off into the weeds.
>> kills engine immediately - don’t ask how I know
I would think it would pretty much kill the transmission too. Dead.
The accelorator sticking has been a problem for years. Volvo had several cases of this back in the 1980s.
A better question should be, why hasn’t the news media been reporting on these cases? It seems to me that there has been a great cover up for Toyoto. They have had a number of recalls, or near recalls, over the years, yet the news media has reported on them (as company) as if they walked on water.
In fact, I have a number of friends and relatives who drive Toyotos. When I ask them about the recall, they seem totally unconcerned, or in denial, as if nothing bad could happen to them.
Any car company that tells me that the “fix” is to put the floor mat in the trunk of the car does not deserve my business.
Toyota has been covering up known issues for YEARS, and people just kept buying into their “quality” propoganda. This and many other problems with their vehicles are problems that go all the way back to the DESIGN board, and they just keep covering them up.
I am sorry for this family, they should not have died due to a company trying to cover up a known problem. Yes, the first thing you should try to do in an throttle stick is shift to neutral if you can. I know this, but I know there are people in this world who do not, and people who panic in situations.
Toyota has put millions of people on the road at risk for a clear design flaw that it has known about and attempted to cover up, there are hundreds of thousands of cars on the road with this defect today, and while mistakes can happen, cars are complex machines a design oversight is bound to happen even with the best people and intentions. However once known there is an issue, deciding to cover it up, is inexcusable. Toyota hopefully will pay a very very very high cost not only to those it has directly harmed, but in the court of public sentiment and consumer choice for its actions, and justly so.
This is a story that has shocked the world.
Previously, Toyota and the Japanese in general have been praised by their superiority to American made cars and the quality of their own.
This story has gone a long way in destroying that myth.
Toyota may be the Japanese version of GM or Chrysler.
>> Toyota has been covering up known issues for YEARS, and people just kept buying into their “quality” propoganda.
If you want a Toyota without life-threatening defects, pony up the dough and get a Lexus, you cheapskate. That’s why they make ‘em.
Nothing unfree about realizing that roadways are shared spaces -- often with very incompetent drivers. One's freedom ends where another's begins.
Exactly. Hard on brakes, neutral, turn off engine.
Why on the cell phone. In Aviation we say aviate, navigate, communicate.
Speaking from experience - I have had a throttle pedal stick fully open on the highway - it is unimaginable that a trained CHiP Officer would not know to put the car in neutral and just let the engine blow, or turn it off. If he had time to make a 911 call, he had time to move the shift lever and/or turn the key.
(Mine blew before I could turn it off, too many RPM on an old motor!)
>> Any car company that tells me that the “fix” is to put the floor mat in the trunk of the car does not deserve my business.
Tell you what — despite these problems, I’d buy a Toyota LONG before I’d give a stinking nickel to any car company owned in part by Obambi.
How fraking stupid can you be? Turn off the ignition. Change gears to neutral or reverse. Pressure on the brake pedal would have let him change gears. I am astounded that the driver was so clueless.
This happened to me and ex-hub once in a Volkswagen. He kept on steering and I got down and pulled the accelerator up with my hands.
Bought floor mats this summer for my daughter’s Honda civic, took out the drivers side the same day (after driving it) and threw it in the trunk. Told her it’s not safe, it could get stuck on the gas or brake peddle. Common sense.
I heard on the news that most other manufacturers use a simple brake pedal overrides gas pedal fix for this. Why not Toyota?
Having had experience with a standard transmission I did exactly what you recommend: kept calm and put the transmission into neutral. The engine continued screaming but I applied the brakes AFTER putting it into neutral. Common sense: if you try applying the brakes while the throttle is stuck and you are still in gear, all your going to do is burn out the brakes! The car eventually came to a stop, I turned off the ignition and after a few minutes restarted the car. Presto/chango the throttle was no longer stuck. We owned that car for 8 years and it never happened again.
Great advice: KEEP CALM, put the transmission into NEUTRAL, THEN APPLY your brakes and carefully coast your car into the breakdown lane. AFTER YOU HAVE COME TO A COMPLETE STOP, THEN call for help.
Use your head and DON'T CALL 911. If you try calling on a cell phone while it is happening you are going to be DISTRACTED = trying to focus on two things at once instead of the issue at hand, and looking for someone outside of your situation to help you, just like the Lexus driver was who called 911. Because things are transpiring so fast the 911 operators have little or no time to even assess the situation and by the time they do get around to asking all of the questions then need to ask before they are in the position to even give advice, it is TOO LATE, you are off the road!
Reminds me of a Johnny Carson moment, “Bet that tickled his putter.”
That does it. I’m rebuilding my 1978 Camaro and putting it back into service. Last thing I want is to end up dead because of an automotive PROGRAMMING error.
Always put the car in neutral BEFORE applying the brakes and one more thing;
DO NOT TURN OFF THE IGNITION BEFORE YOU COME TO A COMPLETE STOP!
Most cars today have power assisted brakes AND steering. If you turn the car off before you come to a complete stop you will lose power to the brakes and steering! Ever use manual brakes or manual steering? Very hard to use on your own.
I had a car once whose throttle cable frayed such that it would not return all the way. I was headed for a tee intersection at 70MPH. I turned off the ignition, the engine backfired and blew both mufflers open. Total damage one throttle cable & 2 mufflers. Unless your engine is revving 4000+ when you do this I don’t see how you hurt the actual engine. Like previous posters I wonder how people can be so stupid.
http://www.chooseyouritem.com/classics/files/1156500/1156619.html
Societal programming to call 9/11
Sorry about this happening. Stupid people die when their programming tells them to call 911 in a situation like this.
This is what is being beat into our heads in schools, media, government spokespeople, movies. Government is the solution to any problem. If it didn’t help the problem, not enough government was applied.
I’m with you and prefer a stick. Personally I don’t think any kid should be given a license till they can drive a vehicle with a manual transmission.
Fair enough. You do need good instincts in such a situation.
If this is true and those poor people could not put the car into neutral because of a design flaw then there will be a massive lawsuit that TOYOTA/Lexus will lose. The only option for the Lexus driver would be to turn the engine off leaving him with no power for the brakes or for the steering and IF his wheel had an OFF lock point to lock the steering wheel after the engine is shut off then he would also have no way of steering the car! Great if you are going 120 and you are coming up to a turn or the end of the freeway... NOT!
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