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Romney Takes Ownership of Brown Victory
ABC The Note ^ | February 2, 2010 | Rick Klien

Posted on 02/02/2010 11:40:49 AM PST by yongin

ABC News’ Rick Klein reports: For those reading 2012 implications out of Sen.-elect Scott Brown’s victory in Massachusetts, Mitt Romney’s monthly PAC newsletter provides some insights.

Brown, R-Mass., is featured in two pictures in the newsletter, and Romney takes full ownership of his victory:

“As supporters of the PAC, you deserve a thank you,” the newsletter from Romney’s Free Strong America PAC reads. “Your support made it possible for Governor Romney to get behind Senator Brown from the very beginning, when polls showed him a 30-point underdog and everyone assumed the outcome was pre-ordained in favor of the Democrats.”

“Governor Romney asked his entire political team to help the then-unknown Brown, and he raised early money for him at a time when very few people would give him a second look.”

Indeed, several key figures in Brown’s victory -- notably Eric Fehrnstrom, Beth Myers, and Peter Flaherty -- were and continue to be Romney people.

Brown’s campaign manager, Beth Lindstrom, was a member of Romney’s Cabinet; his press secretary, Felix Browne, was a deputy press secretary under Gov. Romney; Brown finance director Priscilla Ruzzo held that same post in Romney’s 1994 Senate race; and Will Ritter was a key advance staffer for Romney before he worked for Brown’s campaign.

(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.abcnews.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Massachusetts
KEYWORDS: acorn4romney; aig4romney; backstabberromney; badbadgovromney; badgovromney; benedictromney; bigdigromney; carpetbaggerromney; cheat4mitt; cheaterromney; covetingmitt; dirtytrickmitt; dirtytrickromney; dnc4romney; du4romney; fakebadgeromney; fakepollromney; flipflopromney; gaymarriage; hillary4romney; jealousromney; lie4mitthere; loserromney; ma2010; mexicans4romney; mittcheatsasusual; mittstealscredit; mlk4romney; msm4romney; obama4romney; operationleper; pimpromneyhere; pimpromneynow; pimpromneyplease; pleasepimpmitt; promiseall4mitt; pushpollromney; rahm4romney; romney; romney4obama; romneyantipalin; romneybotshere; romneybringshate; romneycare; romneydeathpanel; romneyhallucinates; romneythrewelection; shapeshifterromney
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1 posted on 02/02/2010 11:40:50 AM PST by yongin
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To: yongin

Now that is ballsy. BS, but ballsy.


2 posted on 02/02/2010 11:41:35 AM PST by Codeflier (Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama - 4 democrat presidents in a row and counting...)
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To: yongin
A lot of people on here don't like Romney but the one thing he has is smarts. He picks very capable people as his political operatives and he's familiar with his home state.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find only things evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelogus

3 posted on 02/02/2010 11:43:16 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: fieldmarshaldj; Impy; lady lawyer; GOP_Lady; Saundra Duffy

Let the great Romney debate begin! LOL!


4 posted on 02/02/2010 11:43:24 AM PST by yongin
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To: yongin

McCain is taking credit for Scott Brown as well, in radio ads running in Arizona. In fact, if you went by some McCain ads, you would think that he was the founder of the Tea Party movement.


5 posted on 02/02/2010 11:44:00 AM PST by Question Liberal Authority ("My...health care plan is a Bolshevik plot... which will destroy America." - Barack Obama)
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To: yongin

Typical Romney lie.


6 posted on 02/02/2010 11:44:08 AM PST by MeanWestTexan (Beware Obama's Reichstag Fire.)
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To: Codeflier

As painful as it must be for some Freepers to admit, it’s not BS, it’s entirely factual. Scott Brown has said as much. That’s why Scott Brown had Mitt Romney introduce him when he made his victory speech.

Cognitive dissonance always hurts.


7 posted on 02/02/2010 11:44:39 AM PST by lady lawyer
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To: yongin
Hmm. Reminds me that Mitt also claimed that he saw his father march with MLK.
8 posted on 02/02/2010 11:45:29 AM PST by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: MeanWestTexan

ROMNEY DOES NOT HAVE SMARTS. HE’S JUST THE ESTABLISHMENT’S GUY. REMEMBER 2008. HE WAS THE FRONT RUNNER. HAD IT ALL WRAPPED UP ACCORDING THE THE EXPERTS. HAD THE MONEY THE ENDORSEMENTS. HAD THE BUSH MACHINE. BUT THE VOTERS REJECTED HIM. 2012 WILL BE A REPLAY FOR MITT. HE’S A TURD IN A PUNCH BOWL.


9 posted on 02/02/2010 11:46:52 AM PST by RED SOUTH
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To: yongin

If they pass ObamaCare....I wanna see Mitt take credit for that....after all, he is the “father of Universal Health Care” in America.....


10 posted on 02/02/2010 11:48:00 AM PST by UCFRoadWarrior (National Security begins at the Border)
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To: MeanWestTexan

“Typical Romney lie.”

Typical political class whoring. There’s a disease in the political class, they are back stabbing whores who see themselves as royalty. I’m not enough of a student of history to know if it’s ever been this bad before, but it’s hard to imagine. Conditions such as we have now were in place in 1775 and lead to a revolution.


11 posted on 02/02/2010 11:48:15 AM PST by brownsfan (The average American: Uninformed, and unconcerned.)
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To: yongin

I heard that Romney was taking full credit for convincing the Mass. Dems to nominate Martha Coakley....sheer masterstroke of genius!


12 posted on 02/02/2010 11:49:39 AM PST by Ocarterma (formerly Obushma: Because he's way past Bush---he's Carter now!)
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To: brownsfan

Is it me or does anyone else see that an impending copyright legal battle between Mitt and ‘Zero’ over the word ‘I’?


13 posted on 02/02/2010 11:50:04 AM PST by Kartographer (".. we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.")
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To: brownsfan

Scott Brown wisely refused to campaign in public with Romney.

He took his money, his advisors, and appeared with him on election night, but Romney is radioactive in Massachusetts, as he should be.

Romney is a phony and will not be nominated in 2012.

I like Pawlenty, Scott Brown, and Bob McDonnel from Virginia.


14 posted on 02/02/2010 11:51:02 AM PST by MarkAccord
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To: yongin

Has ROMNEY been a man to take Ownership for the attacks on Gov. Palin on
the eve of Election 2008 throwing Obama into the White House?

"Former Mitt Romney presidential campaign staffers…
have been involved in spreading anti-Palin spin to reporters, seeking to diminish her standing after the election.
'Sarah Palin is a lightweight, she won't be the first, not even the third, person people will think of when it comes to 2012,'
says one former Romney aide…
'The only serious candidate ready to challenge to lead the Republican Party is Mitt Romney.
"Some former Romney aides were behind the recent leaks to media, including CNN, that Governor Sarah Palin was a 'diva' and was going off message intentionally."


The Palmetto Scoop reported: "One of the first stories to hit the national airwaves was
the claim of a major internal strife between close McCain aides and the folks handling his running mate Sarah Palin."
"I’m told by very good sources that this was indeed the case and that a rift had developed, but it was between Palin’s people and the staffers brought on from the failed presidential campaign of former Gov. Mitt Romney, not McCain aides."
"The sources said nearly 80 percent of Romney’s former staff was absorbed by McCain and these individuals were responsible for what amounts to a premeditated, last-minute sabotage of Palin."
… aides loyal to Romney inside the McCain campaign, said The Scoop, reportedly saw
that Palin would be a serious contender for the Republican nomination in 2012 or 2016, which made her a threat to another presidential quest by Romney.


Erick Erickson, who organized Operation Leper, said:
"These staffers are now out trying to finish her off ….hoping it would ingratiate themselves with Mitt Romney."


"Who's the Palin Leaker from the McCain Campaign?
National Review Online The publication of a Vanity Fair profile of Sarah Palin
appears to have opened old wounds in the McCain campaign.
... the source of the “Diva” leak was Nicolle Wallace’s husband."


Who benefits most from Sanford meltdown? Californian (that's right) Mitt Romney


"Peeking Out From the McCain Wreckage: Mitt Romney"

"Someone's got to say it: IS MITT ROMNEY RESPONSIBLE FOR OBAMA'S VICTORY?"

"Vanity: Team Romney Sabotaged Palin and Continuing to Do So?"

"Romney Supporters Trashing Palin"

"Romney advisors sniping at Palin?"

15 posted on 02/02/2010 11:51:59 AM PST by Diogenesis ( Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum)
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To: yongin

NO MORE PROGRESSIVES!!!


16 posted on 02/02/2010 11:52:26 AM PST by Kimberly GG (Join Me In BOYCOTTING all ObamaTV!! (Change the channel or do so and then turn tv off!!))
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To: Kartographer

“Is it me or does anyone else see that an impending copyright legal battle between Mitt and ‘Zero’ over the word ‘I’?”

It seems the #1 requirement to be want to be POTUS today is an ego the size of Texas. #2 is a lack of ethics.


17 posted on 02/02/2010 11:53:05 AM PST by brownsfan (The average American: Uninformed, and unconcerned.)
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To: yongin

No reason to debate the facts.

Romney supported Brown - both financially and with campaign strategy - when Brown was 30 points behind.

Hate doesn’t change the facts.


18 posted on 02/02/2010 11:53:18 AM PST by ladyjane
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To: yongin
"Romney Takes Ownership of Brown Victory"

I could have told you that on election night...Romney was up on the stage acting like HE had won.

So what does that give us in Brown..."Mitt, Jr.", or "Romney Lite"?
19 posted on 02/02/2010 11:53:45 AM PST by FrankR (The ones of us who love AMERICA far outnumber those who love obama - your choice.)
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To: brownsfan

In the IL primary, all Republicans running are claiming to be the next Scott Brown. Plus the RNC is sending junk mail claiming credit for Scott Brown’s win and demanding money. The whoring is sickening.


20 posted on 02/02/2010 11:55:50 AM PST by yongin
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To: ladyjane

“No reason to debate the facts.”

A lot of Freepers are willing to ignore them. See, e.g., this thread.


21 posted on 02/02/2010 11:56:12 AM PST by lady lawyer
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To: yongin; ConjunctionJunction; Al B.; SolidWood; Leisler; greyfoxx39; Tennessee Nana; ...

Has ROMNEY been a man to take Ownership for RomneyCARE??

“Mr. Romney's subsidized coverage is meanwhile doing what entitlements do: crowding
out private insurers, compounding the cost explosion, walking the state toward rationing.
So long as the former governor clings to these central points of his health plan, he's on
the wrong side of free-market policy and public opinion.

This isn't going away for Mr. Romney either, which is why he'd do better by writing off
his own plan as a mistake that Democrats have made worse, and replacing it with a
proposal that deregulates and reforms the private market to lower insurance costs
(thereby achieving greater coverage).”


“Health Care Speechwriter for Edwards, Obama & Clinton Now Without Health Insurance”
I'm a critic because what Washington is talking about doing
has made health insurance unaffordable in Massachusetts.



“Small businesses bridle at health insurance hikes (Romneycare strangles Mass. businesses)
some really bad news from Blue Cross-Blue Shield: His company’s health insurance rates are going up 47 percent in January.”


“ Rationing medicine has already begun
… government-
run health care has introduced rationing and waiting lists and cost the lives of the people under its provisions.”


“DEATH PANELS OPEN FOR BUSINESS IN MASSACHUSETTS”


“President Obama's newly confirmed regulatory czar defended the
possibility of removing organs from terminally ill patients without their permission.”


“You can’t reap these savings without limiting patients’ choices in some way," said Paul Levy, CEO of Beth Israel Deaconess.”


“State plan may place limits on patients’ hospital options( Mass. RomneyCare )”


"Romney Visits Nebraska, Talks Health Care [where he defends Romneycare] “


"Paying the Health Tax in Massachusetts [Romneycare]
Massachusetts requires every resident to have health insurance, and this
year, without informing us directly, the state had changed the rules in a way that made
our bare-bones policy no longer acceptable. Unless we ponied up for a pricier policy we
neither need nor want—or enrolled in a government-sponsored insurance plan—we
would have to pay $1,000 each year to the state.
How did we become outlaws? “


"National Health Preview - The Massachusetts debacle, coming soon to your neighborhood."
It was only a matter of time.
They're trying to manage the huge costs of the subsidized middle-class insurance program that is gradually swallowing the state budget.
The program provides low- or no-cost coverage to about 165,000 residents, or three-fifths of the newly insured, and is budgeted at $880 million for 2010, a 7.3% single-year increase that is likely to be optimistic.
The state's overall costs on health programs have increased by 42% (!) since 2006."


A Very Sick Health Plan; Bay State’s ‘Grand Experiment’ Fails [RomneyCare]
"Initiated on Mr. Romney’s gubernatorial watch in 2006, this “experiment” has fallen on hard times, and predictably so. “


Health care in Massachusetts: a warning for America [Romney brings Mass. to its knees]
The Bay State's mandatory insurance law is raising costs, limiting access, and lowering care.

Three years ago, Massachusetts adopted a plan requiring all residents to purchase health
insurance, with state subsidies for lower-income residents. But rather than creating a
utopia of high-quality affordable healthcare, the result has been the exact opposite –
skyrocketing costs, worsened access, and lower quality care."


"‘Severe’ doc shortage seen hiking wait time
“The shortage is getting more severe”"


“Health costs to rise again.( RomneyCare )
The state’s major health insurers plan to raise premiums by about 10 percent next year,
prompting many employers to reduce benefits and shift additional costs to workers.”


“Nation’s ill-advised to follow Mass. plan [Health plan a failure]
September 17, 2009 The canary is dead.
Massachusetts, the model for the ObamaCare universal insurance plan, is the canary in
the health care coal mine. Yesterday, its obit appeared on the front page of both The Wall
Street Journal and The Boston Globe-Democrat “


"Bay State Insurance Premiums Highest in Country - Boston Globe August 22, 2009
Massachusetts has the most expensive family health insurance premiums in the country,
according to a new analysis that highlights the state’s challenge in trying to rein in medical costs
40 percent higher than in 2003. Over the same period, premiums nationwide rose an average of 33 percent..."


"Massachusetts: the laboratory for ObamaCare“


"Massachusetts' Obama-like reforms increase health costs, wait times [RomneyCare]
Premiums are growing 21 to 46 percent faster than the national average"


"Mass. Pushes Rationing to Control Universal Healthcare Costs (RomneyCare)
A 10-member Massachusetts state healthcare advisory board unanimously recommended
that the state begin rationing healthcare to keep the state’s marquee universal health care program afloat financially.


"1,000 cancer patients 'refused treatment'"


"Massachusetts Universal Healthcare System Breaking Down Already
ERs in Massachusetts have not seen a downturn in visits. On the contrary, it seems that ER visits are actually on the upswing in the Bay State. In fact, in 2007 they were higher than the national average by 20 percent...”


"Hospital patients 'left in agony'"


"National Health Preview - The Massachusetts debacle, coming soon to your neighborhood.
In Massachusetts's latest crisis,
They're trying to manage the huge costs of the subsidized middle-class insurance program that is gradually swallowing the state budget.
The program provides low- or no-cost coverage to about 165,000 residents, or three-fifths of the newly insured, and is budgeted at $880 million for 2010, a 7.3% single-year increase that is likely to be optimistic.
The state's overall costs on health programs have increased by 42% (!) since 2006
Mr. Romney should have known better before signing on to this not-so-grand experiment, especially since the state's "free market" reforms that he boasts about have proven to be irrelevant when not fictional.
Only 21,000 people have used the "connector" that was supposed to link individuals to private insurers."


A Very Sick Health Plan; Bay State’s ‘Grand Experiment’ Fails [RomneyCare]
… fiscal troubles aplenty within Repubican Mitt Romney’s brainchild, Massachusetts’ “grand experiment” in “universal” health care."
"Initiated on Mr. Romney’s gubernatorial watch in 2006, this “experiment” has fallen on hard times, and predictably so.
Even though the Bay State commenced its program with a far smaller percentage of uninsured residents than exists nationwide,
“RomneyCare” is threatening to bankrupt the state.“


"Dem Congresswoman Admits Obama Health Care Plan Will Destroy Private Health Insurance Industry"

22 posted on 02/02/2010 11:56:52 AM PST by Diogenesis ( Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum)
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To: yongin
Romney is a slick haired lying opportunist who will go with what ever position he think will grant him favor with those he is in front of at the time.

Socialism is not even out of bounds for him as is clearly evidenced by his health care fiasco...

great Romney debate over...

23 posted on 02/02/2010 11:56:59 AM PST by ejonesie22
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To: FrankR

Breaking......Romney claims ownership of McCain nomination!!! Ooooh Breaking......Romney claims ownership of Obama presidency!!! Breaking Romney................


24 posted on 02/02/2010 11:57:04 AM PST by Ocarterma (formerly Obushma: Because he's way past Bush---he's Carter now!)
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To: goldstategop

Smart but sleazy. And he picked the state’s one veteran Republican political team (Joe Malone’s) that was available when he started his run for governor.


25 posted on 02/02/2010 11:57:24 AM PST by 9YearLurker
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To: yongin

I’ll hold off judgment until we see his voting record. If he proves to be the Socialist DIABLO scum Slick Willard is, he can own him.


26 posted on 02/02/2010 11:57:38 AM PST by fieldmarshaldj (~"This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps !"~~)
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To: MarkAccord

The new Mittens talking point.

Scott Brown’s win entitles Mitt Romney to be President. If you do not support Romney for President, then you hate Mormons.


27 posted on 02/02/2010 11:58:22 AM PST by yongin
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To: yongin

Sorry, but Obama already made that claim.


28 posted on 02/02/2010 11:58:24 AM PST by NavyCanDo
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To: ladyjane
The only hate is the hate of socialism

Sad you can't hate that as well.

29 posted on 02/02/2010 12:00:32 PM PST by ejonesie22
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To: goldstategop
A lot of people on here don't like Romney but the one thing he has is smarts.

He also had a dad who was a former governor. Something Palin, who you like to call stupid, didn't have, but she made to to the governorship all on her own, without family connnections to power.

30 posted on 02/02/2010 12:00:45 PM PST by dirtboy
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To: Servant of the Cross; yongin
Hmm. Reminds me that Mitt also claimed that he saw his father march with MLK.

Many people don't know that Mitt Romney has also claimed at times that he himself marched with MLK.

31 posted on 02/02/2010 12:01:06 PM PST by ansel12 (anti SoCon. Earl Warren's court 1953-1969, libertarian hero, anti social conservative loser.)
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To: yongin
The new Mittens talking point.

Scott Brown’s win entitles Mitt Romney to be President. If you do not support Romney for President, then you hate Mormons.

LOL, good summary.

32 posted on 02/02/2010 12:03:41 PM PST by ansel12 (anti SoCon. Earl Warren's court 1953-1969, libertarian hero, anti social conservative loser.)
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To: dirtboy
That's Gov.Palin to you, FRiend.


33 posted on 02/02/2010 12:03:56 PM PST by Diogenesis ( Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum)
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To: lady lawyer

A lot of conservatives can’t see what a RINO Romney is.

Talka about being spiritually blind.


34 posted on 02/02/2010 12:04:12 PM PST by yongin
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To: yongin
Brown, R-Mass., is featured in two pictures in the newsletter, and Romney takes full ownership of his victory:

“As supporters of the PAC, you deserve a thank you,” the newsletter from Romney’s Free Strong America PAC reads. “Your support made it possible for Governor Romney to get behind Senator Brown from the very beginning, when polls showed him a 30-point underdog and everyone assumed the outcome was pre-ordained in favor of the Democrats.”

“Governor Romney asked his entire political team to help the then-unknown Brown, and he raised early money for him at a time when very few people would give him a second look.”

Where does Klein get the full ownership business? The newsletter correctly states that Romney did a early fund raiser for Brown, and made his political team available. These are facts, and the newsletter leaves it up to the reader to determine whether these actions were or were not effective. This is a long way from a claim of full ownership.

35 posted on 02/02/2010 12:04:26 PM PST by Plutarch
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To: ladyjane

Rudy Giuliani actually campaigned for him, Romney did not, do you know why the Republican Governor could not show up in person for a Massachusetts race?


36 posted on 02/02/2010 12:07:08 PM PST by ansel12 (anti SoCon. Earl Warren's court 1953-1969, libertarian hero, anti social conservative loser.)
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To: yongin
I'm grateful to Mitt for providing skilled manpower and timely financing to Scott Brown's campaign while Steele was writing a book, the RNC was supporting DeeDee Scozzafava, and John Cornyn, and the National Republican Senatorial Campaign were contemplating their navels.

I hope I'm not the only one who's willing to give credit where credit is due. I'll continue to send what money I can to Mitt's PAC rather than waste it to on the RNC.

37 posted on 02/02/2010 12:08:22 PM PST by Mobties
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To: yongin

I’d stack up my “spiritual vision” against yours any day.


38 posted on 02/02/2010 12:08:55 PM PST by lady lawyer
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To: yongin
As long as he first claims ownership of Romneycare, abortion and queer "marriage", why sure. He championed all those causes first.

Not to mention doing so in direct contradiction to his purported religious beliefs !

39 posted on 02/02/2010 12:11:30 PM PST by jimt
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To: lady lawyer; ConjunctionJunction; Al B.; SolidWood; Leisler; greyfoxx39; Tennessee Nana; ...
lady lawyer (RomneyBOT): I’d stack up my “spiritual vision” against yours any day.

LOL. Did you get yours at the Bar?



40 posted on 02/02/2010 12:13:28 PM PST by Diogenesis ( Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum)
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To: lady lawyer
I’d stack up my “spiritual vision” against yours any day.

By supporting a guy who went against his own church's principled pro-life viewpoints because he thought running to the left of the Swimmer on abortion would help him in his 1992 Senate run? Some spiritual vision.

41 posted on 02/02/2010 12:16:10 PM PST by dirtboy
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To: Diogenesis; lady lawyer
*sigh*

Calling in the wolf pack again, eh?

Your group is amusingly predictable.

Is Lady Lawyer so intimidating to you that you can't take her on all by yourself?

42 posted on 02/02/2010 12:17:21 PM PST by TChris ("Hello", the politician lied.)
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To: yongin

yes, Romney supported a winner.....and he got to introduce that winner at his victory celebration.....does NOT mean he can take credit for Brown’s win.....Brown gets all the credit.


43 posted on 02/02/2010 12:19:40 PM PST by tioga
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To: yongin

One of the keys here at FR was to make sure not to mention how involved Romney was in the Brown campaign — although that should have been clear to everybody, since the campaign was being run by former Romney staffers, and Romney’s statewide organization was essential for Brown, who was a regional candidate.

Anyway, Brown was like a 2002 version of Romney, without the Mormonism. (Brown is Christian Reformed).


44 posted on 02/02/2010 12:19:55 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: RED SOUTH

Rudy Giuliani was the frontrunner, not Mitt Romney. Mitt never polled first. He was always mired in the runner-up slot or below.


45 posted on 02/02/2010 12:21:23 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: ejonesie22
over? did you say over? Nothing is over until Mitt commissions a $30,000 painting!


The portrait depicts the governor seated at the front edge of his desk wearing his trademark business suit. Beside him is a small framed photo of his wife, Ann, and ... [wait for it] ... a copy of the health care reform law he called his greatest achievement.

46 posted on 02/02/2010 12:24:30 PM PST by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: yongin

Piss on Romney.


47 posted on 02/02/2010 12:24:39 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Join the TEA Party Rebellion!! Just vote them OUT!!)
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To: TChris

Bienvenido a la fiesta, amigo.

48 posted on 02/02/2010 12:24:50 PM PST by Diogenesis ( Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum)
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To: MarkAccord

When Brown first started, Romney cmapaigned with him, and held multiple public fundraising events.

However, after that, Brown worked at separating himself from conservatives, and instead invited in people like Rudy Giuliani, while asking groups like the RNC to keep out of his race, because he was running an “independent”, “down-home” race, not an “outsider” race.


49 posted on 02/02/2010 12:25:08 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: goldstategop

And you’re an effin troll.


50 posted on 02/02/2010 12:25:26 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Join the TEA Party Rebellion!! Just vote them OUT!!)
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