Posted on 02/04/2010 1:16:04 PM PST by AstroTurf _Queen
What if it wasn’t a silver star per se but some medal that looked like one, maybe a foreign medal, is he in violation of the law?
So long as cops & politicians are Constitutionally allowed to lie to achieve the ends they seek, everyone else is too.
Depends on the kind of lie. Slander, libel and fraud are all legally actionable forms of lies, all long established in legal principle.
Claiming a false badge of honor is usually not an actionable fraud, as no one bears a direct harm from it. Hurt feelings are not legally actionable of themselves.
If some one uses a claim of a badge of honor to gain some direct benefit — a job, a position, a share in some enterprise, and that claim is false there may be an actionable harm.
Do you really want to add to the burden of law and regulation? Let social scorn be the cure.
>Mildred Gillars, known popularly as “Axis Sally” (although she did not use that name on the air), was convicted of treason in WWII for a radio broadcast (a work of fiction no less). She wasn’t being charged for working for the Nazis in GENERAL or broadcasting on Nazi radio. It was the content of the broadcast.
Was it particularly easy for her to be convected thusly? The Wikipeda article on her says she was convicted on only one charge of treason, meaning that there were multiple charges.
Also, while not impossible, from the Constitutional definition.. it seems there is some elasticity in it; John Murtha pronounced on national television that our marines were murderers and war-criminals (this has been well recorded) and yet not only has no charge of treason been made of him, but the courts ruled that he was covered under a law protecting federal employees from civil-suits and thus protected/immunized from the charges of slander that said marines were/are making.
If you lie to someone, you are committing fraud.
Whether or not it is a criminal offense is up to whatever remains of our "justice" system.
Why stop there? Shouldn’t we add every little things that is wrong somehow to the law and force the police to enforce it? Picking noses -— that’s wrong. Let’s make it a felony!
A lie is not a fraud. To be a fraud there must be a transfer of real value gained or lost by the lie.
Way off topic but on your About Page you refer to the whack job Biden did on Clarence Thomas.
If you haven’t already, you might enjoy reading John Bolton’s “Surrender is not an Option”. He speaks of Biden’s activities as chair of the Judiciary Committee and observes with regard to the Bork hearing that even after receiving assurance from Biden to the contrary, “…the Democrats treated it as a political process and the Republicans treated it as a confirmation hearing, which is why they lost.”
The phrase “duplicitous weasel” immediately comes to mind.
As I understand the act (without going back and looking at the text) he's fine. I understand your point about enforcing existing fraud laws, but here's where I see a difference. US military awards and decorations are bestowed upon individuals in recognition of their individual service to the nation. In some cases the award may be of very direct and tangible value...i.e. a job application, where misrepresenting one's military awards would be tantamount to to misrepresenting academic degrees.
Above and beyond that, a service award is symbolic of the nation's gratitude and a recognition that the individual is entitled to a degree of that, albeit a non-tangible or unquantifiable entity. To allow others to partake in that credit without merit undermines the value to the one who earned, and "victimizes" the nation at large by lowering the value of gratitude or recognition. By enforcing against the misrepresentation, the level of esteem concomitant to the award is preserved.
If you lie, you are committing fraud. This is my OPINION based on my own personal PHILOSOPHY. Where that fraud crosses into civil or criminal statutes I would assume varies depending on which State you live in.
I'm sorry I have to spell that out like that. If I was quoting a legal statute, I would have posted references.
Can we get over it now? Please?
You're right....go wear all the medals you want and defend those who do likewise....and pick your nose while doing so; it's obvious you have no intention of honoring or defending those who actually earned them from those that would undermine the value of the awards.
“Whether or not it is a criminal offense is up to whatever remains of our “justice” system.”
That’s not what you said. You said it was a crime, which is incorrect.
That said, I have much sympathy for your position, as I despise these guys.
But I would rather have a bunch of fake heros than a Ministry of Truth run by Obama.
“it’s obvious you have no intention of honoring or defending those who actually earned them from those that would undermine the value of the awards”
The highest compliment to a soldier is to defend the Constitution for which he fought.
>Split another legal hair.
No! Definitions, and words, are important. Especially legal ones. Or does “No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed” mean that congress can make laws which are retroactive? What about tax laws? They are either laws, and thusly covered, or they are not and therefore cannot be punishable offenses because they would not be [legal] offenses.
>If you lie to someone, you are committing fraud.
Here’s the entry from dictionary.com:
Fraud –noun
1. deceit, trickery, sharp practice, or breach of confidence, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage.
2. a particular instance of such deceit or trickery: mail fraud; election frauds.
3. any deception, trickery, or humbug: That diet book is a fraud and a waste of time.
4. a person who makes deceitful pretenses; sham; poseur.
It looks like definition #3 matches what you are saying... but let’s take a look at a legal dictionary. http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=785
“the intentional use of deceit, a trick or some dishonest means to deprive another of his/her/its money, property or a legal right.”
>Whether or not it is a criminal offense is up to whatever remains of our “justice” system.
Not really, you’re blurring two different things here: the EFFECTIVENESS of our judicial system and the law itself. A law remains law regardless of whether it is observed and/or enforced or not; this is why it is INCREDIBLY important that people realize the scope/hierarchy of our law-system... any law contrary to a higher law is null-and-void, so if there’s a state law saying you cant keep-and-bear arms, it is null-and-void because the Constitution says that you DO have that right with its second amendment, which is not limited as some are with the prefix “congress shall.”
Which court found the Stolen Valor Act un-Constitutional?
Oh right. None.
>>“it’s obvious you have no intention of honoring or defending those who actually earned them from those that would undermine the value of the awards”
>
>The highest compliment to a soldier is to defend the Constitution for which he fought.
As a former enlisted I can say that it is indeed the highest complement; much like it is/was discouraging to come back from Iraq just in time to see the 2008 elections (and ACORN) and how... passive/undemanding-of-justice the citizenry seemed to be about it.
That reminds me of this doc I wrote back then:
https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATyjMtQJe7iWZHY2OTh0bV8yNWM3YjM1Y2M5&hl=en
“Which court found the Stolen Valor Act un-Constitutional?”
That’s actually what the story is about.
Multiples motions are pending claiming that it is unconstitutional because it violates the First Amendment.
That’s not true.
Simply lying is not fraud under any statute.
If someone uses fake medals to get government benefits, throw them in jail.
If someone uses fake medals to get attention at a Veterans Day parade....I don’t think that is anything that should be prosecuted.
Well, we are getting there.
What tangible damages does a person commit by playing dress up with fake medals? And are they great enough to warrant intrusion into the First Amendment?
“If someone uses fake medals to get attention at a Veterans Day parade....I don’t think that is anything that should be prosecuted.”
But we should feel free to kick their ass.
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