Skip to comments.Gay men's evolutionary advantage: being 'super uncles'
Posted on 02/05/2010 5:28:20 AM PST by Loyalist
It's a question which has troubled science since Darwin: if homosexuality is, at least in part, inherited, how are those genes being passed down to new generations?
Canadian researchers say they have found the first evidence to back up the theory that gay men have the evolutionary advantage of being "super uncles", a way of enhancing the survival prospects of close relatives and -- indirectly, at least -- making it more likely their genes are passed on.
Paul Vasey, associate professor in the University of Lethbridge's department of psychology, said his research found evidence that gay men may be more willing to support their nieces and nephews financially and emotionally.
The idea is that homosexuals are helping their close relatives reproduce more successfully and at a higher rate by being helpful: babysitting more, tutoring their nieces and nephews in art and music, and helping out financially with things like medical care and education.
(Excerpt) Read more at nationalpost.com ...
Like the uncle nobody talks about except to tell the kids to stay away from him?
And look! Another gullible Western academic being played for a fool by the Samoans just like Margaret Mead!
Is “super uncles” psychobabble code for child molesters?
This article stipulates a non-biological cause for homosexuality.
IMO, that’s the only truth here.
This is not just crap. This is stupid crap.
IE, either a choice or an acquired mental illness.
Man, what a bunch of ‘rationalization’ crap!
Yeah, like Uncle Ernie whom deaf, dumb and blind Tommy was introduced to.
“Hey, nephew. Want to see where the horse bit me?”
You, sir, identify subtext exceedingly well! ;-P
When I was a kid, we called them “funny Uncles”. We avoided them and their friends as we knew they were predators.
No, it’s not stupid crap. It’s the most stupid crap I’ve read in a long time.
It merits a “WTF?”
The current term among the kids is to call them “Creepers.” Whatever the term, most well adjusted kids can instinctively spot them. They make fun of them, but also know to stay the hell away from them.
That looks like an excellent article. Thanks!
What they're really supporting is that homosexuality isn't genetic.
My degree is in psychology, and I recall reading studies that higher population densities had a higher incidence of homosexual behavior (the test subjects were rats that had population density adjusted). Of course that couldn't have an effect...now could it?
Gee, another thing Darwinism can’t explain. Wonder when someone will start to notice theory doesn’t work? Shoosh.
So kids now don’t buy the PC crap. We didn’t have PC crap being taught to us in the 50’s.
how does being a helpfull uncle lead to you having children which pass on your genes if you only have sex with the same sex?
Evolutionary philosophy combined with the “gay gene” mythology; throw in global warming and you have a trifecta of unproven ideologies.
Wow.... That’s a lot to words to say: “They Can’t Reproduce, So They Have to Recruit”.
I don’t understand what would be proved if there is a genetic component. Let’s say there is something in biology that makes one gay. Huntington’s chorea is genetic; but the dementia that often accompanies it is not something we make concessions for...schizophrenia has a genetic component, but you don’t hear anyone arguing that we should any alternate realities that arise from the disease as valid...as far as I know, no schizophrenics have filed a suit alleging violation of their civil rights because during their last break they really were Abraham Lincoln (in their personal world).
I’d be happy to say, FINE, you have a gay gene. And? You need help and treatment, not extra special rights to maintain your ‘alternate lifestyle’. What’s next, ‘alternate reality’ lobbyists?
“Celebrating” or giving rights based on this “alternative lifestyle” is simply enabling people to continue their destructive behavior, even if you stay out of the God given moral realm.
It’s like making special allowances for alcoholics and drug addicts so that they can continue destroying themselves with their chemical dependency.
You won’t shout as I fiddle about . . . .
I coached my kids baseball teams for 13 years. I figured out really quick that kids can see through crap. No, they don’t buy the PC nonsense. Two examples:
1. There is a “minority” of “minority” kids at my son’s high school, but last year they hung out at the intersection of two hallways and intimidated the white kids who would pass through. What was the term the white kids used for that location? They called it “42nd & Post” which is an intersection in the city known for drugs, gangs and shootings. So much for “diversity training.”
2. My older son and his friends were filling out college applications. Some of them wanted scholarships. They advised each other that if you wanted one, you had to say you were African-American or you could forget it.
When it comes to rubber meeting the road in the real world, kids are not fooled by PC garbage.
Yes, perhaps it’s simple as the “Survival of the Fittest” where as a homosexual gene is produced due to a poor genetic profil that ‘nature’ sees as not worthy enough to breed or pass along as a human. In other terms; “To stop this ingrate from making humans like him, we’ll make him like males only and eventually his type will fade away.”
Homosexuality is an Evolutionary dead-end!
Time for another exciting episode of Gay Super Uncle and Chief Chickenhawk. Their advantage is access.
Kids must end up buying the garbage in high school. By the time they get to college they are on their way to being good little PC soldiers. Too bad they don’t stay as savvy as when they were young.
Proceeding from a false premise, makes all that follows faulty reasoning.
Homosexuality is no more inherited than is being a thief, rapist, pedophile, adulterer, etc.
um, no, what is going on with the uncle phenom., is simply old fashioned molestation...the number one recruitment tool of homos
Evolution, the omni-theory, strikes again. Even explains my wife’s shopping habits. At least this “study” was on the Canadians’ dime this time.
“...higher population densities had a higher incidence of homosexual behavior...”
If that were true, New York would be full of them. Oh, wait...
Wait a minute... I thought there was no such thing as a gay gene...LOL
How does a man get sex in such a culture? By giving presents to the family of the girl you're interested in. Given a choice between a handsome man with no gifts, and an ugly man who brings food or other valuable gifts, the girl's family will give her to the guy with the stuff. It becomes a brothel society.
In a brothel society, it is to the advantage of the tribe that a number of their sons do not spend tribal money chasing after girls of other tribes, and get their sexual satisfaction more cheaply.
So....homosexuals are really enablers of heterosexuals? Well, I guess that’s alright then.
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These social students, let’s not call them “scientists”, missed a major participant in the game. “Heterosexual but not reproductive.”
Unlike some cherry picked society, in all societies, there are men and women who do not reproduce, but are not homosexuals. While they usually *want* to reproduce, it “just doesn’t happen for them.”
In western cultures, these were the “maiden aunts” who remained with the family, and “bachelor uncles”, who went off on physical, or at least intellectual adventures. Lots of variation to this.
In China, respectable women who could not be married due to lack of dowry, or other reasons, to survive had a social alternative to prostitution, of becoming “Amah”. They would be adopted, in a way, by another household, not as servants, but treated much like a “maiden aunt”. They would perform some household chores, such as being a nanny, some light cooking and cleaning, in exchange for room, board and a stipend. They would have their own quarters, apart from the servants quarters, and were expected to neither date nor marry.
Granted, there is some overlap among heterosexual but not reproducing, and homosexuals, since they both find themselves outside of the mainstream of family oriented society.
But instead of the “super uncle” concept, either group can apply itself to creativity denied to adults with children. That is, children take an enormous amount of time and energy, leaving most parents with little extra to create and develop new ideas.
In the absence of children, adults are free to advance society in other ways. Importantly, this is probably not oriented to their family, but to their own interests, so looking for “super uncles” will probably not have much luck.
As an aside, grandparents fill the role of “extra parents” in many cultures, and are clearly interested in helping to raise their grandchildren. This has even been documented in what is called the “grandmother mortality phenomenon”. When grandchildren reach a particular cultural age, in which they are accepted as adults, there is a sudden spike of mortality among their grandmothers.
That is, when the kids graduate high school, grandmother dies. It happens far too often to not be statistically noted. Yet there doesn’t seem to be an equivalent effect with grandfathers. Such a powerful relationship does not carry over to other members of the family, either, such as aunts and uncles.
This isn’t the first time they’ve come out with this crap.
That is one of the most fascinating and well-written articles I have read in a long time.
Thanks for posting the link.
Those researchers who know most about genes and SSA say Your genes did not make you do it.
Lets review the evidence bearing in mind that many of the following arguments apply to all human
Science has not yet discovered any genetically dictated behavior in humans. So far, genetically
dictated behaviors of the one-gene-one-trait variety have been found only in very simple
organisms. (Ch 1)
From an understanding of gene structure and function
there are no plausible means by which
genes could inescapably force SSA or other behaviors on a person (Ch 1)
No genetically determined human behavior has yet been found. The most closely geneticallyrelated
behavior yet discovered (mono-amine oxidase deficiency leading to aggression) has
shown itself remarkably responsive
to counselling. (Ch 1)
If (exclusive) SSA were genetically inherited, it would have bred itself out of the population in
only several generations, and wouldn’t be around today. (ie. gays with no children would not be
able to reproduce their genes.) (Ch 1)
Generally, geneticists settle for some genetic influence
of rather undefined degree, most
agreeing that many genes (from at least five or six to many hundreds) contribute to any
particular human behavior. (Ch 1)
If SSA were caused by many genes it could not suddenly appear and disappear
in families the way it does. It would stay around for many (eg. at least 30)
generations because it would take that long for that many genes to be bred out.
Therefore SSA cannot be caused by many genes. (Ch 1)
The occurrence of SSA (2.6%) in the population is too frequent to be caused by a chance
mutation in a single gene. Therefore SSA cannot be caused by a single gene. (Ch 1)
Researchers trying to find homosexual sequences of genes on the recently mapped
human genome have not found any such sequences although they have found them for
schizophrenia, alcoholism etc. (Ch 9)
The occurrence of SSA is about five time too high to be caused by a faulty (non-genetic)
pre-natal developmental process, so it is not innate in that sense either. (Ch 1)
First same-sex attraction occurs over a very long time span, unlike pre-programmed genetic
events eg puberty, menopause. This argues that first same-sex attraction is not a genetically
programmed event. (Ch 1)
The human race shares most of its genes - something between 99.7 percent and 99.9 percent.
That means all ethnic groups will have most of them. This has the following three implications.
If homosexuality is genetically dictated, homosexual practices will be identical or
extremely similar in all cultures. But there is an enormous range and diversity of
homosexual practice and customs among different cultures (and within cultures)
There would be a similar incidence of homosexuality in all cultures. But
homosexuality has been unknown in some cultures and mandatory in others.
Changes in homosexual practice and behavior in different cultures would take
place very slowly, over many centuries. But this is not what history shows. The
decline of whole models of homosexuality (the Greek, over a couple of centuries,
and the Melanesian, within a century); the relatively sudden [in genetic terms]
emergence of the present Western model over a couple of centuries; and abrupt
changes of practice within an ethnic group, even over a single generation, are not
consistent with anything genetic. Even less so the swiftly changing sexual practices
within the current Western model. (Ch 6)
The drop in SSA attraction and practice over the lifespan is too great to attribute to genetic
change or for that matter, deaths from AIDS. It could indicate some change in sexual
orientation. (Ch 2)
Recent increases in the percentage of those experimenting with same-sex behaviour suggest
social influence rather than genetic change. (Ch 2)
Dean Hamer, one of the strongest advocates of a genetically-based homosexuality, has
remarked that he doesn’t think a gene exists for sexual orientation. (Ch 9)
Twin studies: These very complex comparisons of identical twins and non-identical twins
definitively rule out genetic determinism. If homosexuality were genetic, identical co-twins of
homosexual men and women would also be homosexual 100% of the time, but they arent.
The genetic influence is indirect, certainly lower than 30% for men and 50% for women
and may be as low as 10%. This is illustrated further by the fact that identical twins with
identical genes are at most 11 and 14% concordant for SSA (ie. if one twin is SSA the cotwin
will be gay only 11 % of the time (males), 14% (females.) (Other studies have even lower
And remember this: everyone has at least a 10% genetic influence in his or
her behaviour - simply because without genes there can be no bodily activity of any kind, or
human behaviour. (Ch 10)
Much sexology literature shows huge amounts of change from a homosexual orientation
toward a heterosexual orientation
and vice versa. This could not happen at all if homosexuality
were genetically dictated it would be fixed and unalterable. Contrary to popular impressions
SSA is much less stable than OSA and changes more frequently. (Ch 12)
About 90 percent of Western intersex children (those born with ambiguous genitalia) choose
to remain in their gender of upbringing when puberty reveals their true genetic gender and
surgical interventions are offered. Often, this choice is made in the face of very contrary
physical and hormonal characteristics. It argues that environmental influences predominate in
the formation of gender orientation and behavior. This percentage has remained approximately
constant over the last 40 years. (Ch 5)
The stages of psycho-social development toward adult heterosexuality are clearly defined and
understood by developmental psychologists, and so obviously learned that heterosexuality is
clearly not genetically mandated. Surveys of adult homosexuals show conspicuous deficits
in several of these developmental stages - strongly suggesting homosexuality is cultural and
environmental rather than genetic. (Ch 3)
There is a much higher incidence of homosexuality among those who have been raised in
large cities, rather than in rural areas, arguing that the environment is much more powerful
than genes in the development of homosexuality. (Ch 2)
A scientific/sociological tool, Path Analysis, has been argued to show that there is no social
or familial basis to homosexuality, but rather a biological one. However, the researchers did
discover social and family paths leading to homosexuality, but chose, for some reason, to say
they were not significant, even though, in terms of the methodology, they were. (Ch 11 )
Hormones and brain structure
There have been many studies, none of which has shown any convincing relationship between
homosexuality and exposure to pre-natal hormones in dictating adult behaviour. Studies
examining effects of very high doses of female hormones to pregnant mothers show no effect
on males and a dubious effect on women. Therapy changing levels of adult male and female
sex hormones has been shown to affect sex drive but never orientation. (Ch 7)
The idea that homosexuality results from immune attack on male brain characteristics by
the mother during pregnancy is poorly supported. If so male testes and genitalia would be
attacked, because they also contain predominant clusters of male proteins. But they are not.
Lesbian finger length ratio studies are said to show an effect of prenatal hormones. However
any effect on sexual orientation is weak. (Ch 7)
Scientists have barely been able to distinguish between male and female adult brain
microstructure let alone male homosexual and female brains. Attempts to prove such a
similarity have been unconvincing, because they may arise from brain changes caused by
behaviour rather than being innate. Male and female brains appear identical at birth, and
from about age two or three the only main consistently replicable difference, is their size:
male brains are larger. Most of the development of the human brain takes place after birth
in response to stimuli, learning, and experience. The brain changes so much in response to
learning and repeated human behaviours that this could probably account for any differences
between homosexual and heterosexual brains which might be ultimately discovered. (Ch 8)
Our instincts, such as self-preservation, hunger, and reproduction, are among the most deeply
embedded and strongest impulses we have, but these are able to be controlled. If we want to argue homosexuality is also a deeply ingrained instinct, we must also
argue it should be malleable and responsive to training. (Ch 4)
Genetic content of homosexuality is minimal
Geneticists, anthropologists, developmental psychologists, sociologists, endocrinologists, neuroanatomists,
medical researchers into gender, and twin study researchers are in broad agreement about the role of
genetics in homosexuality. Genes dont make you do it. There is no genetic determinism, and genetic
influence at most is minor.
Sociobiologists, almost the only group of academics who argue seriously that all human behavior is
preordained by genes, have great difficulty accounting for the persistence of SSA in the population.
They try to argue that genes causing male SSA would also exist in the sisters of gays, and that the homosexual
male would help ensure those genes were passed on by helping his sister and her family - for example, babysitting,
and later helping with money and resources. But these arguments are unusually weak. Those with
SSA have much weaker ties with their biological families than average.
There’s also the phenomenon of maternal versus paternal uncles in a patriarchal society, e.g., medieval Europe (I assume to some degree true in ancient Rome): a woman brought to the marriage rights to her dowry—her husband administered it but it was hers and it was there to provide for and guarantee the future of her children if she died. Because the paternal uncles (brothers of her husband) could be tempted to try to weasel her out of her property so it could be absorbed into their family’s (hopefullly growing) assets, the maternal uncles had a moral/family obligation to look out for the interests of sister and her children (their nephews and nieces).
This is the origin of the word avuncular in English: avunculus was the Latin term for maternal uncle. A different word was used for paternal uncle—as a way of saying, “hey, the mother’s brothers are going to be avuncular, favorable, protective of their sister’s children, whereas one has to be on guard against her husband’s brothers—not that all of them always were predators but one had to at least be aware of a potential threat.”
And for those who are a bit clueless here's a useful lesson we need to start showing in our schools again:
So THAT’S where all those “rich uncles” come from who die and leave their fortune to the nieces and nephews!
I never had a rich uncle.
Its like making special allowances for alcoholics and drug addicts so that they can continue destroying themselves with their chemical dependency.
Exactly; I couldn’t agree more.
What a difference 50 years makes.Now they tell gay fairy tales in kindergarten;and if you object you get arrested!
David Parker — his arrest, court appearances, abuse by school officials, harrassment by pro-gay activists in town, and federal civil rights lawsuit!
Horror stories in the schools:
VIDEOS of elementary schools normalizing homosexual lifestyle to young children!
The “Little Black Book” - Hard-core pornographic homosexual “how-to” booklet given to kids at high school!
“King and King” - story book of homosexual romance read to second graders.
Elementary school teaching cross-dressing and transgenderism in 3rd grade.
Glad to. Thank you.