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Another Look at Obama's Origins
American Thinker ^ | 2-7-2010 | Jack Cashill - Commentary

Posted on 02/06/2010 10:45:49 PM PST by smoothsailing


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February 07, 2010

Another Look at Obama's Origins

By Jack Cashill

The murky circumstances of Obama's birth invite attempts to make the known facts fit together. This article was prompted by two emails.  The first asked me why I had never weighed in on the birth certificate controversy surrounding President Barack Obama. 

I responded that although I was troubled by the lack of documentation regarding all phases of Obama's history -- I'd be content with his SAT scores -- I could not understand why any pregnant American woman would go anywhere near Kenya.

The second email was more interesting.  It came from a Michigan entrepreneur named Don Wilkie, with whom I had not previously communicated.  Knowing my interest in the authorship questions surrounding Obama's writing, he presumed that I was intrigued as he was by a cryptic poem the 19-year old Obama wrote called "Pop," the best thing that Obama himself has actually written.  He was right.

"Pop" relates an encounter between Obama and a man most reviewers presume to be Obama's maternal grandfather, Stanley Dunham.  Dunham would have been in his early 60's at the time.  In the poem, Obama has "Pop" wondering drunkenly about the boy, "What to do with me, a green young man." 

The Obama of the poem is cynical, even a little bitter.  He makes several allusions to the fact that he and the old man look and even smell alike, a fact that strikes Obama as more ironic than reassuring.  The poem ends, however, with reconciliation when Pop stands and asks for a hug.  Writes Obama:

I see my face, framed within


Pop's black-framed glasses


And know he's laughing too.

Wilkie offers a novel interpretation of "Pop." Says Wilkie, "I think the poem zeros in on that poignant moment when Obama was told that his grandfather was in reality his father."

Wilkie concedes his theory is "off-the-wall," but he also offers photographic evidence to show that Obama much more closely resembles Dunham -- especially the telltale ears --than he does Barack Obama, Sr. 

Intriguing as the theory is, I t hought it would be easy to disprove.  I was wrong.  For starters, in his 1995 memoir Dreams From My Father, Obama refers to his grandfather not as "Pop," but as "Gramps." If he were writing about his grandfather in this poem, the title "Pop" may very well be suggestive of a more direct kinship.

For another, there is little known about the marriage between Stanley Ann Dunham, Obama's presumed mother, and Barack Obama Sr.  According to most accounts, Dunham and Barack Sr. were married on the Hawaiian island of Maui -- in some reports on February 2, 1961, in others on February 21.

Obama knows little about the wedding.  He writes in Dreams, "In fact, how and when the marriage occurred remains a bit murky, a bill of particulars that I've never quite had the courage to explore. There's no record of a real wedding, a cake, a ring, a giving away of the bride."

In his fair-minded biography, Barack and Michelle: Portrait of an American Marriage, Christopher Andersen concedes, "There were certainly no witnesses -- no family members were present; and none of their friends at the university had the slightest inkling they were even engaged."

Another conflicting bit of evidence is that at the time of his alleged marriage to Ann Dunham, Barack Sr. had a pregnant wife and a son back in Kenya.  There is more.  In July 2008, speaking at a university roundtable, Michelle Obama said of Barack's mother that she was "very young and very single when she had him."  This could well have been a slip of the tongue, but it may not have been.

Obama was reportedly born roughly six months after the February wedding date on August 4, 1961.  Andersen reports that Barack Sr. drove Ann to Honolulu's Kapiloani Hospital for Women and Children to have the baby.

Andersen's account, however, suffers from chronology problems.  He relates that Ann told the Dunhams of her pregnancy in "late October."  Even if she had she been impregnated in early October -- it probably would have been earlier -- Obama's official birth date came ten months later.

In any scenario, Obama had at least one black parent, and if it is not Obama Sr., who then is it?  Obama offers a possible clue in Dreams

I was intrigued by old Frank, with his books and whiskey breath and the hint of hard-earned knowledge behind the hooded eyes. The visits to his house always left me feeling vaguely uncomfortable, though, as if I were witnessing some complicated, unspoken transaction between the two men, a transaction I couldn't fully understand. The same thing I felt whenever Gramps took me downtown to one of his favorite bars, in Honolulu's red-light district.

The "Frank" in question is Frank Marshall Davis, a black communist, pornographer and poet who had abandoned Chicago for Hawaii.  In "Pop," it should be noted, the Pop character "recites an old poem just before the reconciliation and reeks of whiskey.  Davis would have been in his mid-70's at the time.  Some have theorized that Davis, in fact, is Obama's father and the "Pop" of the poem.  This theory, though tenuous, cannot be ruled out.  A grandson can look more like his maternal grandfather than his father. That happens.  And then too there is Davis's Chicago connection.

The "Frank" passage and the ones that follow, however, tell us something suggestive about Stanley Dunham, namely that he frequented otherwise all-black bars in an area rife with prostitution.  That a black woman -- perhaps a friend of Davis's -- gave birth to a child of Dunham's may explain "the complicated, unspoken transaction between the two men."  If this were the case, it would have caused far less societal stress for Ann Dunham to assume maternity of her little brother than for Stanley Dunham to assume paternity of his son. 

We also know that Stanley Dunham so desperately wanted a boy that he named his only child "Stanley Ann." That he chose to raise the young Barack would not have been out of character.

Is it possible that Barack Sr. obliged the Dunhams and went along with the charade?  If so, as Andrew Young attests in The Politician, he would not have been the last good friend to claim false paternity for a larger cause.

As a Kenyan, Barack Sr. would have given the boy more than a name. He would give him a distinctive identity as an "African," a more respected ethnicity in the America of the 1960's than "Negro." Indeed, Obama has built his career around his exotic identity.  Were he named after an American father, say "Darnell Johnson," he may never have been elected president.

This hypothetical extended charade would help explain why Barack Sr. blithely blew off his new family when he headed for Harvard a year later, rejecting a reported opportunity to take both wife and child to New York, and began dating as soon as he arrived at Harvard. It would explain too why Ann Dunham felt free to leave young Barack with her parents for years at a time when her career beckoned.

Barack Sr.'s cooperation would also put Stanley Dunham's fondness for him in perspective.  In Dreams, Gramps speaks so respectfully of his prodigal son-in-law that the whole opening sequence rings false to anyone who knows the larger story.  A man, a black man at that, has knocked up Dunham's daughter.  Ann and Barack Sr. marry despite reported opposition from both families. The man then abandons wife and child, and the grandfather can only sing his praises to the man's son.  This makes no sense at all and would have made even less sense in the racially charged 1960s.

Jerome Corsi of WorldNetDaily has found additional evidence that argues against Obama's birth to Ann Dunham in August 1961.  As the records clearly show, "Stanley Ann Dunham" enrolled for classes at the University of Washington at Seattle on August 19, 1961, fifteen days after Obama's presumed birth. It defies all logic--and logistics as well--that Dunham would have flown her newborn across the Pacific, found an apartment and a job and enrolled at class all within two weeks of the birth.

Most accounts put young Barack with Dunham in Seattle when she was attending college, but the sourcing on these accounts is suspect.  One person cited often is Dunham's good childhood friend, Maxine Box.  In February 2008, Box told the Seattle Times that the last time she saw Dunham was "in 1961," when, says Times reporter Nicole Brodeur, "[Dunham] visited Seattle on her way from Honolulu to Massachusetts, where her then-husband was attending Harvard." 

"She seemed very happy and very proud," Box tells the Times of Dunham." She had this beautiful, healthy baby. I can see them right now."

There are any number of problems with this account beginning with the fact that Barack Sr. did not attend Harvard until the fall of 1962.  Box also gives no sense that Dunham lived in Seattle or attended classes there through the winter and spring sessions of 1962 as records show she did.  Whether Dunham was actually heading for Harvard, we have no real way of knowing. 

A seeming hole in Andersen's account is that he missed the Washington adventure and has Ann remaining in Hawaii through Obama's first few years.  He makes no mention of any trip to Harvard by Ann.

One other scenario makes sense out of a falsely assumed paternity by Barack Sr.  This begins with the abrupt departure of the Dunham family from the Seattle area in the late summer 1960.  In Dreams, Obama tells how pleased the senior Dunhams were with the success of Ann in high school, but Stanley forbade her to go to the University of Chicago, "deciding that she was still too young to be living on her own."


Soon thereafter, however, the family decamped for Hawaii. 

"Something must have still been gnawing at my grandfather's heart," writes Obama.  He attributes the move to his wanderlust and the "limitless" prospects offered by a new furniture store in Honolulu.   Adds Obama, "He would rush home that same day and talk my grandmother into selling their house and packing up yet again."

What Obama does not mention is that even at this time his grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, likely earned more than her furniture salesman husband.  To move, she had to give up her job as a bank officer in Seattle.  Arriving in Honolulu, she worked as a by-the-hour bank teller.  This job would, however, have given her the opportunity to tend to the young Barack. 

It seems altogether possible that the progressive and adventurous 17 year-old Dunham was impregnated by a black man while the family was still living in the Seattle area. If so, this pregnancy could have prompted the family to uproot to Hawaii where no one knew them and where mixed-race babies were more accepted.  According to the Andersen account, whose source was Maxine Box, "There were loud arguments between father and daughter -- fights that sometimes turned violent."  Ann did not want to go.

Both the "Dunham as father" and the "anonymous black father" scenarios would make the Obama camp wary of sharing Obama's actual birth certificate, either because Dunham was not Obama's mother or, if she were, because Obama was born much earlier than August 4, 1961. 

If Obama were born, say, in February or March 1961, it would clarify why, as documented, Dunham attended the University of Hawaii at Manoa in the fall semester of 1960 but not in the spring semester of 1961.  This timetable would have also allowed Dunham enough time to recover and prepare for a return to college in Seattle in August with or without the baby.  Dunham would not return to the University of Hawaii until 1963.  She filed for divorce in 1964, and little was heard from Barack Sr. ever again.

Scientists use the phrase "inference to the best explanation" to illuminate an unproven phenomenon. Given the available evidence, including the fact that some evidence has been strategically withheld, one can infer that Obama likely was born in Hawaii but that Ann Dunham did not give birth to Barack Obama Sr.'s child on August 4, 1961.

So much depends on Obama's fabled "story," however, that the mainstream media have chosen not investigate.  When Christopher Andersen tried, he found himself immersed in a swamp of conflicting and concocted stories that tested the savvy of even a veteran biographer. 

And so Obama's birth remains a mystery a year after his inauguration.  The mainstream media meanwhile have paid more attention to the origins of Trig Palin than to those of the president, and have spent their excess energy mocking those who do the reporting they once did. 

If my humble efforts to clarify matters make me a "birther," so be it.


Page Printed from: http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/02/another_look_at_obamas_origins.html at February 07, 2010 - 12:34:58 AM CST


TOPICS: Editorial; Extended News; News/Current Events; US: Hawaii
KEYWORDS: birthcertificate; cashill; certifigate; dunham; february; frankdavis; frankmarshalldavis; jeffcashill; naturalborncitizen; obama; obamafamily; origins; stanleyanndunham; stanleydunham; steve; stevedunham; whosyourdaddy; whosyourmommy
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To: bushpilot1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EMdQm8Mguw Obama child pics


51 posted on 02/07/2010 3:13:08 AM PST by bushpilot1
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To: smoothsailing

Is there anyone in Washington DC that can sneak a glass from a table that O vacates so we can have his DNA on file. Then we can sneak or get others supposedly in the family and compare it. I think that this would be worth the trouble.


52 posted on 02/07/2010 3:22:46 AM PST by Bellflower (If you are left DO NOT take the mark of the beast and be damned forever.)
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To: smoothsailing

Wouldn’t it be more beneficial to the conservative cause to spread the word on the things that ObaMAO has done throughout his life, instead of continuing to harp on where he might have been born?

Or pehaps this birth certificate thing really ISN’T about Obama and his communist connections throughout his life; maybe it’s a on-going “distraction”?


53 posted on 02/07/2010 3:33:53 AM PST by aSeattleConservative
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To: DoctorBulldog

The theory is that Pop played around with a black woman, Obama came out of Pop’s need to play. Now doubt, Cashill has some rather complicated theories, but the question that must still be asked is, “WHO IS BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA”?


54 posted on 02/07/2010 4:05:16 AM PST by Paige ("All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing," Edmund Burke)
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To: DoctorBulldog

You are missing the point of the theory- that Pop Dunham indulged in sex at the black bars he frequented while Madeline worked her butt off supporting the entire clan

and Barry was his bastard with a black hooker - raised by the Dunhams as Ann’s son, not her brother.

This still wouldn’t explain why Barry got a rich Saudi sponsor who paid his tuition ot Harvard

One bet- the Russians know the truth and are using it to get what they want from Barry. Possibly the Chinese and the Saudis, too


55 posted on 02/07/2010 4:11:04 AM PST by silverleaf (My Proposed Federal Budget is $29.99)
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To: aSeattleConservative

If the president of the US is spending almost $2 million to keep his birth certificate a secret, there is no greater threat to national security

He is eminently blackmailable by foreign (or domestic) enemies

Of all the “things he has done throughout his life”, building his current “persona” and political career based on a plausibly fictional autobiography, is the most basic one worth investigating


56 posted on 02/07/2010 4:17:46 AM PST by silverleaf (My Proposed Federal Budget is $29.99)
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To: silverleaf
One bet- the Russians know the truth and are using it to get what they want from Barry.

According to this, you are over the target.

57 posted on 02/07/2010 4:43:36 AM PST by Just A Nobody ( (Better Dead than RED! NEVER AGAIN...Support our Troops! Beware the ENEMEDIA))
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To: aSeattleConservative
Wouldn’t it be more beneficial to the conservative cause ...

If the constitution is no longer a "conservative" cause, then I may have to rethink the cause.

58 posted on 02/07/2010 4:45:54 AM PST by Just A Nobody ( (Better Dead than RED! NEVER AGAIN...Support our Troops! Beware the ENEMEDIA))
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To: Paleo Conservative
Also bear in mind that we are looking at an inter-racial impregnation from the viewpoint of 2010, not 1960. That was FIFTY years ago, eons ago in terms of racial relations. Inter-racial marriage was illegal in many states, and even "liberals" of the day used the terms "Negro" or "colored" with a bit of trepidation, as though they were being polite and hiding a larger truth about blacks. The degree of racial separation literally cannot be over stated.

Stanley Ann Dunham would have literally had to be a nut case to have let herself get pregnant by a black man in that era. If she got pregnant by a black man in 1960, her obvious complete unconcern for the morals and norms of contemporary America would mark her as someone completely outside the mainstream of thought, personality, and culture of the era.

It would also explain much of Barack 0bama's psyche. I'll leave that divination to the reader. I have too much else to do on this Sunday morning. A full psycho-history of Barack 0bama, properly performed by a professional, will be, I suspect, a frightening thing for all who care about America.

59 posted on 02/07/2010 5:15:38 AM PST by Hardastarboard (Note to self: Never post in a thread about religion again.)
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To: Yaelle

That is plausible. I have known several families in my life who foisted an illegitimate child on one of the daughters after the father had an affair and knocked up his secretary or girlfriend. On the other hand I have also know several where the daughter got knocked up and the child was passed off as a sibling


60 posted on 02/07/2010 5:28:27 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (usff.com)
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To: DoctorBulldog

I picked up on this....So pops Dunham frequented black bars picking up prostitutes? m m m m m m m m m...................


61 posted on 02/07/2010 5:37:50 AM PST by ronnie raygun (Cockblock the sock puppet in 2010)
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To: CaptainK

To understand why conservative leaders act so strangely about BO’s Certifigate scandal, you need to first understand history.

Did you ever hear the great uproar by the GOP over Clinton pardoning a crack dealer for cash?

Another Pardon, Another Controversy
http://speakout.com/activism/news/5653-1.html
Hugh Rodham [Hillary’s brother] received a contingency fee in connection with a pardon ... a scheme to distribute 800 pounds of crack cocaine

Imagine if Bush had pardoned a crack dealer for cash. How quiet would the DNC and the Drive-bys have been about it? The RNC is so issues-focused, they are obsessed about giving the DNC cover. It’s apparently been that way ever since Joe MacArthy. Conservative leaders have always held their punches. They rationalize away their fear.

Now for the nitty-gritty.

- - -

Excellent Certifigate Summary by Diogenesis [The thread starts off lame, but post 15 is a major link blast on the topic.]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2445716/posts?page=15#15

Poll — 58% of Repbulicans question Obama’s Constitutional Qualification
http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0709/58_of_GOP_not_suredont_beleive_Obama_born_in_US.html

Conventioneers cheer Obama-eligibility challenge
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=124336
Farah: ‘I say, if it’s been settled show us the birth certificate. Simple’

- - -

“New Coach” Comparison:

Such a question to remain festering is inexcusable in a leader. A team sees some guy walking into the locker room claiming to be their new coach. How much should they trust him? Is it their fault if they wonder?

The coach says, “I was sent here by the other team.” [Annenberg vetting Obama]. Such ‘leadership’.

The Hippies Who “Certified” Obama
http://www.theobamafile.com/_eligibility/AnnenbergFactCheckers.htm
[Obama was vetted by Annenberg. Does that ring a bell? Annenberg funded Obama AND unrepentent terrorist, Bill Ayers. Obama and the terrorist had offices near each other thanks to the fox who guarded the vetting henhouse.]

The coach’s assistant hands them a forgery:

ATLAS EXCLUSIVE: FINAL REPORT ON OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE FORGERY ...
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/07/atlas-exclusive.html

Blogger admits Hawaii birth certificate forgery, subverting Obama claims (Uh-oh)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2040486/posts

PROVEN: Barack Obama Presented Forged Certificate of Live Birth ...
http://conservativepolitics.today.com/2008/06/25/proven-barack-obama-presented-forged-certificate-of-live-birth/

Now we should REALLY trust him, right?

- - -

Obama law tab up to $1.4 million
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=106138

Obama birth certificate lawsuits - Conservapedia
http://www.conservapedia.com/Obama_birth_certificate_lawsuits

WHY DOESN’T HE JUST SHOW US HIS FRIGGING BIRTH CERTIFICATE? What kind of goofball would rather spend 1.5 million? Or does he WANT discord in the military? Is this LEADERSHIP?

There are too many snarky “dignity freaks” who are more worried about their image than the truth. They fear ridicule. They calculate. And they will never get along with hardworking conservative muckrakers.
Not knowing it, the sarcastic “Dignity Mossad” is like a coward in the foxhole who stabs his buddy in the back and surrenders. Either that, or he’s a hideous combination of mental laziness and self righteous judgmentality.

Maelstorm: “There is no need for Glenn Beck, Breitbart, or anyone to defend a President who refuses to release his education records, his medical records, and yes he still hasn’t released a long form birth certificate.”


62 posted on 02/07/2010 5:41:08 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March (2010 HOUSE RACES! Help everyone get the goods on their House Rats. See my profile.)
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To: mad_as_he$$

Certifigate Link Thread
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2114092/posts?page=160#160

KEY WORD:
http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/certifigate/index


The Obama Timeline: 1961-2008 [Mens News Daily]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2116758/posts

An extremely comprehensive timeline for Obama
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2116100/posts

Obama’s birth certificate sealed by Hawaii governor
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2116120/posts
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79174

Judge Surrick has some ’splainin’ to do… [Berg’s judge]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2115938/posts

Obama Citizenship Lawsuit Filed in Cincinnati-Now a Total of NINE Lawsuits
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2114681/posts
[posted by hecht]

Obama citizen question goes to U.S. Supreme Court
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2115494/posts

Judge Surrick “Received” the Decision He Issued [Fishy Fax]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2115420/posts?page=12
[Note Canedawg is looking into this carefully — post 12 and 39]

Berg Lawsuit - Fox News
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2115307/posts

Obama’s Birth Certificate Judge-Obama Linkage [Is Judge Surrick tainted?]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2115270/posts


[posted by Two Kids’ Dad]
Another thing that’s bugged me for a while is the time of birth posted on 0bama’s COLB. It shows as 7:24 PM and I was able to find a blank COLB on Google that also shows the time as 7:24 PM. What are the friggin’ odds of that?!? I believe it’s one in 1440. I’d bet my left leg that he wasn’t actually born at the exact time. See link:

http://inlinethumb31.webshots.com/18654/2615534710103381328S600x600Q85.jpg

Obama Birth Certificate Lawsuit Filed In Ohio
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2114584/posts

Obama Refuses to Answer Birth Certificate Lawsuit
http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_birth_certificate/2008/10/24/143882.html
A Pennsylvania lawsuit alleging that Barack Obama is not a “natural-born citizen” of the United States took an unusual twist this week, after a federally mandated deadline requiring Obama’s lawyers to produce a “vault” copy of his birth certificate expired with no response from Obama or his lawyers.
Discussion thread:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2114543/posts

Dem: Obama’s grandma confirms Kenyan birth
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2113780/posts
[Berg] has confirmed he has a recording of a telephone call from the senator’s paternal grandmother confirming his birth in Kenya.”
[related thread]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2113828/posts

Birth Certificate Legal Fight [Berg]
Due to Procedure, Obama and DNC Admit all Allegations
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2111080/posts
“According to Rule 36 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, a party upon whom requests for admissions have been served must respond, within 30 days, or else the matters in the requests will be automatically deemed conclusively admitted for purposes of the pending action.”

WND also ‘ax’ing — Obama ‘admits’ Kenyan birth?
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78671

Rush Brings Up Obama’s Birth Certificate (Text)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2113641/posts

NRO Examines Birth Certificate
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2113569/posts

Stop the ACLU researchers examine the birth certificate debate:
http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/2008/10/24/operation-aloha-obama%e2%80%9d-yields-up-truth-about-barack-obama/
[Is Frank Marshall Davis the real father? And why not end this debate by showing the copy from the vault?]

Blogger admits Hawaii birth certificate forgery, subverting Obama claims (Uh-oh)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2040486/posts

FEC joins call to throw out suit against Obama (Berg’s challenge of BHO’s citizenship)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2113134/posts

Originalism and the Natural Born Citizen Clause
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2112732/posts

Marquis V Reed - WA Sec Of State Wants Proof Of Obama’s US Citizenship
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2112693/posts

Obama’s Timeline [Bio Chronology]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2112616/posts

The Justiciability of Eligibility: May Courts Decide Who Can Be President?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2112733/posts

Berg on Mark Davis show [birth certificate]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2112601/posts

Obama Birth Certificate Suit Reach Hawaiian Supreme Court
[Request filed]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2113166/posts

Joining Birth Certificate Lawsuits, ANOTHER motion is filed; this time in Utah
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2106516/posts

Obama’s birth stirs legal action in Washington
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2105807/posts

In Depth Youtube on Birth Certificate[six minutes]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC54PXA0jG0&feature=related
[analysis of an anonymous COLB buff: Jr was adopted by Lolo Soetoro when Lolo married his mother, Ann, in 1966. At that time Indonesia was a police state and the only way jr could have gone to school was if he was an Indonesian citizen. Ann and jr followed Lolo to Indonesia in 1967 where he was enrolled in school by his adopted name(Barry Soetoro) and the religion of his step-father. (Islam) There are no records of Barry Soetoro legally changing his name back to Barack (pronounced Bear ick by his real father) if that ever was his name! There is also no record of him going before a judge for naturalization which he would have needed to have done because Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship!]

The Saga of the Missing Birth Certificate carries on...the plot thickens
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2104124/posts

American Thinker —
This could be the game changer (updated) [10 minute youtube about BO’s birth cert.]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2103980/posts?page=1

OBAMA BORN IN KENYA?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2103299/posts
“I have received information that certified copies of a Kenyan Birth Certificate (BC) for Obama were sent from Kenya, and have been received by three separate individuals. I am told that these documents are certified, with an embossed seal, and display the name of the hospital where Obama was born, as well as witness signatures.”

Berg Response in Oppostion to Obama / DNC protective Order
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2102105/posts
[Can’t anything about this man be straight forward? Even his birth certificate ...]

DEAD BY ELECTION DAY (from SLATE, not incendiary; what if president-elect cannot serve?)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2104279/posts
[Birth Certificate debate]

Ineligibility for the Presidency (Obama’s Birth Certificate)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2103327/posts?page=7
[Constitutional considerations — well thought out]


63 posted on 02/07/2010 5:42:22 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March (2010 HOUSE RACES! Help everyone get the goods on their House Rats. See my profile.)
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To: MeekOneGOP; Impy; TigersEye; editor-surveyor; manc; Cicero; Electric Graffiti; Maelstorm; ...

Jack Cashill’s brilliant mind wades in on this.


64 posted on 02/07/2010 5:44:18 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March (2010 HOUSE RACES! Help everyone get the goods on their House Rats. See my profile.)
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To: smoothsailing

It is getting stranger and stranger here. I will expect the author to be a guest on the George Noory’s Coast to Coast radio show.


65 posted on 02/07/2010 5:59:48 AM PST by BilLies
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To: smoothsailing
I could not understand why any pregnant American woman would go anywhere near Kenya.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

From my perspective as a woman, Jack Cashill’s theory makes NO NO NO sense whatsoever!

Why would a free-spirited 17 year old girl ( who is just about ready to enter the exciting world of university life) be willing to take on the responsibility of raising a brother as her own child?

And...Everything we know about Ann paints her as highly impulsive and scattered-brained air head.

66 posted on 02/07/2010 6:02:49 AM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid!)
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To: smoothsailing

And who better to clear things up than Jack Cashill of TWA 800 fame....


67 posted on 02/07/2010 6:05:21 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Yaelle

Occam can’t find his razor.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You bet!

Also...Why go through an expensive divorce if there was no marriage, and we do know that the divorce happened.


68 posted on 02/07/2010 6:08:16 AM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid!)
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To: Just A Nobody
I wonder if trolls are paid overtime on the weekend? ( Just wondering).

It is amazing the number of posters with “conservative” in their posting name who have soooooo much time for posting on this topic but counsel the rest of us that it is a waste of time to question Obama’s eligibility.

No disconnect there at all! None at all! ( sarc)

69 posted on 02/07/2010 6:14:52 AM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid!)
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To: smoothsailing

I still contend the poem relates an early sexual encounter with an older man. (ie a man who liked little boys)

Considering Obama’s past was scrubbed from the universe, I am surprised that poem survived.


70 posted on 02/07/2010 6:17:26 AM PST by Protect the Bill of Rights
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To: Doctor Don
Obama’s grandmother said Obama was born in Kenya. Grandmoms DO NOT LIE!

Except for my grandmother and probably yours .... that just isn't true for all others.

But, if the "grandpop" had a baby with a black woman and gave him to Ann to raise (sort of) why would the Kenyan Obamas accept him as a relative? I read that zero took Michelle to Kenya to meet his relatives - I think before they got married. You'd think that BO, SR would have told his Kenyan family if he was just a beard for the real father.

I think he probably was born in Hawaii but it ticks me off that he thinks protecting himself from embarrassment is more important than proving that he's not violating the constitutional requirements to hold the office.

71 posted on 02/07/2010 6:23:11 AM PST by Aria ( "The US republic will endure until Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the people's $.")
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To: silverleaf
and Barry was his bastard with a black hooker - raised by the Dunhams as Ann’s son, not her brother.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Does this make **SENSE**??? Of course it doesn't!

1) What wife would want her husband's bastard child in their home? I can't even picture it.

2) What mother would foist her husband's bastard child on **her** 17 year old daughter? UNBELIEVALBE!!!! Even the Dunham family is not that dysfunctional and cruel.

3) What fun loving 17 year old would be willing to **DO** that and take on that responsibility for a child that was not her’s???? Huh? And...Ann is reported to be a flighty air head of a teen as well.

Nothing about this theory makes any sense at all.

Also...Although somewhat embarrassing all the characters in this fairytale of a story are **DEAD**. So...

Reason #3: It make no sense whatsoever for Obama to spent soooooo much money hiding his birth records, or to tie up federal court time, or use DOJ taxpayer paid for attorneys even if they were embarrassing. The American people would not hold his being his father's child against him now that he is president. No, he would be painted as a hero who overcame a difficult past.

Mostly I am amazed that the “American Thinker” allowed this to be printed. I usually respect their work.

72 posted on 02/07/2010 6:26:51 AM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid!)
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To: smoothsailing

No doctors, nurses, aides or anyone else has come forward claiming to be at Obama’s birth. Why not? Seems to me that there are bragging rights and the purpose of clearing up nutty stories.


73 posted on 02/07/2010 6:27:57 AM PST by Jabba the Nutt (Are they insane, stupid or just evil?)
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To: Aria
Kenyan Obamas accept him as a relative?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That's another good point.

74 posted on 02/07/2010 6:28:17 AM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid!)
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To: kalee

place marker


75 posted on 02/07/2010 6:28:37 AM PST by kalee (The offences we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: Cheburashka
It was the early 60’s. There was no DNA testing. It was hard for a young, unmarried white woman to successfully sue for child support, much less a black mistress/prostitute. It would have been easy for Stan the man to walk away from that situation.

If he went through all of this trouble for an illegitimate child, it would suggest more than a casual sexual fling. Everything we know about Stan's personality suggests otherwise.

76 posted on 02/07/2010 6:33:08 AM PST by Protect the Bill of Rights
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To: wintertime

I doubt we even know how dysfunctional was the Dunham family- father cruising the honolulu red light district, taking the child with him to to visit as he drank with a pedophile marxist for a black mentor, teenage daughter posing for nudies and screwing anything of color in college, as BO Sr boasted

yes stanley ann was “fun loving”, lil barry was supposed to be her ticket to go live happily ever after in africa with a bona fide black marxist african and be one of his multiple muslim wives (as her friends remember her telling them)

remember Toot did not take lil’ Barry into her home until he was shipped back from Indonesia at age 10. Can’t figure out who was more fun loving, Toot or Stanley Ann. All the characters are not dead- Barry outlived them all, ignored his mother and grandmother on their death beds, said his grandmothers passing was a “joy”, burned their bodies and threw their ashes into the sea at a tourist pull off spot along the highway. Toot’s final disposal had to wait 2-3 months until he took Christmas vacation

what does “making sense” have to do with anything?


77 posted on 02/07/2010 6:43:16 AM PST by silverleaf (My Proposed Federal Budget is $29.99)
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To: TigersEye
After the Obamanation’s birth they both were rather quickly left to fend for themselves by Obama Sr. This makes her a single mother by anyone’s definition, whether or not the legal niceties of a divorce were observed immediately. Michelle Obama is playing fast and loose with the timelime by saying “when she had him”, of course. But she was making a political speech, and Democrats and politicians in general often play fast and loose with the facts and don't let them get in the way of what they want to say in their speech. Remember the popular leftist meme “May the Mother of Jesus was a single mother.” Not true, but they will try to get away with the slander.

I might note that she wasn't present and therefore has no personal knowledge of the truth of what she was saying.

As for the “legend”, once you call something a legend you pretty much are saying, “hey, I have no idea whether this is true or not.”

And I've never heard anyone among the Obama supporters claim a specific date for the marriage ceremony.

78 posted on 02/07/2010 6:45:01 AM PST by Cheburashka (It's a _happy_ Russian novel. Everybody still dies, but everybody dies happy.)
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To: wintertime

You had excellent points also - for me this is just another theory that doesn’t come close to proving out.

That said - I wonder what it is he doesn’t want us to know? Doesn’t seem like it’s worth 2M in attorney fees (or are We The People paying for this?) if it’s just that they weren’t married when he was born.


79 posted on 02/07/2010 6:45:30 AM PST by Aria ( "The US republic will endure until Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the people's $.")
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To: UCANSEE2

I have a cousin who looks like a clone of his mother’s father, I knew the man, he died when I was still a boy. The grandfather had six sons and none of them looked as much like him as his grandson (my cousin) looked.


80 posted on 02/07/2010 6:47:30 AM PST by RipSawyer (Trying to reason with a leftist is like trying to catch sunshine in a fish net at midnight.)
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To: sten
since when did seeing an id turn into something just for the little people?

That would make a great tag line.

81 posted on 02/07/2010 6:51:23 AM PST by Las Vegas Ron ("Because without America, there is no free world" - Canada Free Press - MSM where are you?)
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To: CaptainK

Me too.


82 posted on 02/07/2010 6:53:16 AM PST by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: Just A Nobody

That scares me!


83 posted on 02/07/2010 6:55:20 AM PST by tutstar (Baptist Ping list - freepmail me to get on or off.)
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To: smoothsailing

Very convoluted. Add to that the possibility that the step-father in Indonesia adopted Barry - and that would have resulted in a name change on the birth certificate - does make ones head spin. And I thought Bill Clinton’s life was complicated.


84 posted on 02/07/2010 6:55:56 AM PST by Mercat (Horizontal Fracking)
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To: UCANSEE2

I don’t think that this is an incest story. Jack is weaving two stories here and that makes the whole article more confusing. One is that Gramps is actually Pops and Barry’s father with the mother being a black prostitute. The other is that Stanley Ann was knocked up by a random black guy in Seattle and the family moved to Hawaii and concocted a story with BHO, Sr. to cover the illegitimacy part of it. It does sort of make my head hurt. I’ve always thought that the birth certificate would be embarrassing but not disqualify Barry.


85 posted on 02/07/2010 6:59:30 AM PST by Mercat (Horizontal Fracking)
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To: smoothsailing

Out of the murk two things are clear. BO had a presumed father who was an irresponsible drunk and he had a grandfather/father (whom he physically resembles)who also was a drunk and who frequented black bars where black prostitutes hung out.


86 posted on 02/07/2010 7:03:44 AM PST by Malesherbes (Sauve qui peut)
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To: line drive to right

Someone told me some of the more public talk about Obama’s origin was connected partially to the dems trying to get MCCain declared inelible because he was born in I think it was Panama.

I always thought it would have been good for the anti illegals campaigns if McCain was declared ineligible.

If someone was declared ineligible who was born outside the US because his father was serving our country but if his mother had skipped across the border and given birth illegally to him he would have it would have hit home.


87 posted on 02/07/2010 7:06:25 AM PST by rexgrossmansonlyfan (Brennan and Booth IT happens we have to wait til April because FOX is stupid)
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To: SatinDoll
"Her statements were recorded for posterity."

Yes... the entire conversation is recorded for posterity, and also transcribed. Unfortunately, she never says what you claim she says anywhere on them. Not only does she never once say Obama was born in Kenya anywhere on the tape, she and her grandson (Obama's cousin) repeatedly correct the questioner that Obama was born in Hawaii, not Kenya.

You can listen to the tape here: http://americasright.com/?p=310

"AND there is a videotape of Barack Obama saying he was born in Kenya. This occurred during a debate for the Senate seat of Illinois."

You have again been misinformed. there is no such videotape, and Alan Keyes (whom Obama was debating) is on the record as saying the exchange never took place.

You can see all three debates here: http://2004.keyesarchives.com/
88 posted on 02/07/2010 7:12:07 AM PST by EnderWiggins
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To: wintertime
"It is amazing the number of posters with “conservative” in their posting name who have soooooo much time for posting on this topic but counsel the rest of us that it is a waste of time to question Obama’s eligibility."

That's because this isn't a "conservative" issue. It's a "nutburger" issue, to use Michael Medved's term.

It's splitting the already dysfunctional Tea-Party convention even as we speak.
89 posted on 02/07/2010 7:17:51 AM PST by EnderWiggins
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To: Just A Nobody
From your story:

"He was from Hawaii. He went to school in California...."

Ooops. Story just blew up and sank. Now if the story said Indonesia...

90 posted on 02/07/2010 7:19:35 AM PST by Cheburashka (It's a _happy_ Russian novel. Everybody still dies, but everybody dies happy.)
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To: American Constitutionalist

What’s to explain?

Listen to the tape. You will never once hear her voice say Obama was born in Kenya. You will hear some guy say it, but then he is immediately corrected by Obama’s family (to include the grandmother) that he is wrong, and that Obama was born in Hawaii, not Kenya.


91 posted on 02/07/2010 7:21:10 AM PST by EnderWiggins
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To: null and void
Don’t step in the troll...

Thanks for the warning. Just looking for the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth from the first community organizer so-called POTUS before the country is completely ruined.

92 posted on 02/07/2010 7:23:22 AM PST by azishot (J.D. Hayworth...U.S. Senator FOR Arizona)
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To: smoothsailing
In Dreams, Gramps speaks so respectfully of his prodigal son-in-law that the whole opening sequence rings false to anyone who knows the larger story. A man, a black man at that, has knocked up Dunham's daughter. Ann and Barack Sr. marry despite reported opposition from both families. The man then abandons wife and child, and the grandfather can only sing his praises to the man's son. This makes no sense at all and would have made even less sense in the racially charged 1960s.

It makes perfect sense in Ayers' mind.

93 posted on 02/07/2010 7:27:52 AM PST by bgill (The framers of the US Constitution established an entire federal government in 18 pages.)
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To: EnderWiggins
It's a “nutburger” issue, to use Michael Medved’s term.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If it's such a “nutburger” issue why are you wasting your time?

94 posted on 02/07/2010 7:29:02 AM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid!)
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To: mad_as_he$$
On the other hand I have also know several where the daughter got knocked up and the child was passed off as a sibling.

Example: Clapton, Eric. Although according to Clapton everybody in his home town knew long before the young Eric Clapton found our.

Of course a mixed race child would be much harder to pass off. But if Stanley Dunham had tried to pass off the child as his daughter's child and thus blot her name (as that would have been seen in 1960), common sense would say that Madelyn Dunham would have been consulting a divorce attorney. And assuming that somehow the silver-tongued Stanley talked everyone into going along with this fraud and kept his marriage afloat, then Stanley Ann Dunham takes her father's bastard with her when she marries and moves to Indonesia with her new husband? Does not leave the kid behind with its real father?

Nah.

95 posted on 02/07/2010 7:32:07 AM PST by Cheburashka (It's a _happy_ Russian novel. Everybody still dies, but everybody dies happy.)
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To: EnderWiggins
It's a “nutburger” issue, to use Michael Medved’s term.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Are the 60% of Republicans “nutburgers” too? In some states 50% of the population do not believe Obama was born in the U.S. and/or have questions. In California ( a liberal state) 30% do.

**ALL** of these people are “nutburgers”? Is Medved soooooo much smarter that these “little people”.

What **is** nutty is for Obama not to release his documents. These are documents that I had to present recently just to renew my driver's license! These are documents and other information that many Americans have had to submit throughout their lifetimes.

The “nutburger” is Obama! Americans are NOT stupid. And...The information is now spreading widely throughout the nation, in spite of the media blackout.

Obama is in trouble and he knows it.

96 posted on 02/07/2010 7:37:20 AM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid!)
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To: EnderWiggins
It’s a “nutburger” issue, to use Michael Medved’s term.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

As for Medved, the last time I check Yale did not grant degrees in common sense.

97 posted on 02/07/2010 7:38:25 AM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid!)
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To: TigersEye
“The legend is that on February 2, 1961, against Madelyn's hopes, and against the desires of Obama’s father back in Kenya, Ann, three months pregnant, and Obama hopped a plane to Maui and got married. The wedding had no witnesses, not even her parents, and no record of the event has yet been found.”

HI DOH has released the vital record index for the Dunham-Obama marriage (no date or location included):

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2278969/posts?q=1&;page=485

98 posted on 02/07/2010 7:48:39 AM PST by Seizethecarp
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To: wintertime

I made the mistake of listening to Michael Medved one Friday. I believe he called it conspiracy friday or something along those lines. He was agreeing with callers about all this Marilyn Monroe stuff and UFO / alien abduction stuff and adding all sorts of additional details that he purported to believe. But he stearnly warned that he would accept no calls from anyone who believed that Obama had not proved he was a natural born citizen. He said that those people were the true nut cases.

I felt that it was outragious and realized that for some reason Medved was blatently engaging in Alynsky tactics on behalf of Obama. He lost me as a listener that day. There is nothing unreasonable about any citizen demanding that our Commander in Chief release the documents from his past that would prove that he was eligable and qualified to lead our great nation. It is wrong that any documents are being withheld and immoral that enormous sums of money and the power of the federal government are being used to keep these records sealed.


99 posted on 02/07/2010 7:55:16 AM PST by fireman15 (Check your facts before making ignorant statements.)
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To: Aria
Grandmoms DO NOT LIE!

Per Se Agreement here, too...but perhaps more importantly, grandmoms don't vote for ba$tards, and that would make him a 1 termer. Instead of 'loving daughters helping grandmom pull the lever' it would be 'grandmoms helping loving daughters pull the lever'!!!

100 posted on 02/07/2010 7:57:21 AM PST by CRBDeuce (here, while the internet is still free of the Fairness Doctrine)
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