Are Green Power Programs a Scam?

Mother Jones News ^ | Jan/Feb 2010 issue | Laura McCandlish

[lowbuck]

Are you paying for renewable energy, or just a bunch of hot air?

snip . . .

Consumers need to understand that the electricity "is not going from the windmill on the ridge to your toaster," says Pacific Power spokesman Tom Gauntt. Michael Gillenwater, a Princeton researcher who codeveloped the EPA's carbon emissions tracking system, says it's more like donating to a cause. "What you are doing is subsidizing the market for renewable energy."

[lowbuck]

Excellent read to under the "shell game" that is global warming and how all the programs to save the world only result in your money going into the pocket of others!

[beebuster2000]

can save you the time: scam

[fatnotlazy]

If they could harness the snow and turn it into energy, I’d be ok with that. (snort)

[There You Go Again]

This woman is a joke....she moves from Baltimore to Oregon and buys some green credits that amount to saving emissions equivalent to 909 miles of driving a vehicle.....but the distance from Baltimore to Oregon is further than that....and know doubt she and her weenie husband will travel back and forth to Baltimore to see her liberal weenie friends and family a lot in the coming years....so, this commie lib. would have saved a lot more carbon by just keeping her butt in Baltimore....but no, these slime have to move out their cesspools and populate the rest of the country.....

[familyop]

There are fraudulent interests, for and against wind turbines and PV systems. In some areas, wind turbines with large, strong alternators (durable ones mostly home-built) work well as private power plants for residents. In other areas, they don’t (not enough wind). The same goes for PV (solar) systems. Solar heating systems that are properly built for their respective environments, work well in most places.

It’s not about how much wind a turbine uses. It’s about dollars spent per amp-hours of charging received. That also applies to PV systems and heating systems (BTUs).

Yes, the commercial parts of those industries are dishonest. For example, some locales (counties) require certifications from particular labs on equipment from particular companies (high efficiency collectors and turbines—not worth the money). And the tax credits for grid tie systems are ridiculous.

But there are people way out in the boonies who need those sources of energy, and some do very well with them. I’ve seen heating systems that use nothing more than 30 watts intermittently (less than 30 amp-hours per day) and electric systems that provide over 1,000 amp-hours per day for about $50 per month (over 25 years). But those efficient systems must be properly built by the studious and hard working residents for themselves or their family—some experience in several industrial/building trades required. Otherwise, with contractors doing it for you, double the costs (or more, depending on where you live).

[familyop]

BTW, also double the cost for PV systems, if you don’t spend at least a couple of days digging the Net for reasonably priced 220 amp-hour golf cart batteries. The big name brand batteries of the same quality and type are far more expensive.

[familyop]

Agreed.

[BigCinBigD]

Everything Green related is a scam. Even that little lizard on TV.

[qwertypie]

Using green energy is like spending $2,000 an ounce mining for gold. No sane person would do it.

[OldMissileer]

Are Green Power Programs a Scam?

Yes. Next question?

[FrankR]

"Are Green Power Programs a Scam?"

I believe they are; I am on REA, an electric co-op, and they have started all these "green" intitatives lately which I think are just an excuse to raise the rates.

I'm sure they started salivating when obama campaigned on "electricity rates will rise", and that opened the door for them. Since the Rural Electification Association is a "gub'min" program, it figures.

Twice, in the last six months, they have distributed "spaghetti bulbs" - the new CFL light bulbs to all their members, which I promptly returned to them in their night drop.

For months I've been buying up extra incandescent bulbs to have a stockpile when the "ban" kicks in...stupidest thing I've ever heard.

I'm on a campaign to actively avoid anything that is "going green", as a protest for the govenment and companies using a "hoax" to scare people into paying more taxes and bigger profits to companies. I won't even by laundry detergent that has "going green" on the lable...when that scam start losing money for them, they'll stop it, return to common sense, and the world will be more normal. If their product doesn't work better than their competitors, then putting "going green" on the label won't convince people to buy it...don't fall for the ruse.

The only thing I want to see "going green" are the leaves on my trees in the spring...WHICH NEED CARBON DIOXIDE TO GROW.

[Jacquerie]

Pure scam. Some of the comments to the article are quite humorous. Hand wringing liberals donate money to power companies or shady not for profit groups in order to save the earth when in actuality the $ just go to the companies’ bottom lines.

[Redleg Duke]

Do bears crap in the woods?

[pnh102]

Of course “green energy” is a scam. DUH.

[lowbuck]

Not if they live in the zoo!!

[mulligan]

Big time scam. What else would one expect from fools?

[steelyourfaith]

 

Beam me to Planet Gore !

[FreedomPoster]

Yes.

Next question?

As a longer reply, those of us who were around during Carter and paying attention to energy policy know that we threw $billions down the alternative energy rathole with very, very little to show for it today. Let’s not repeat that lunacy. Like Sarah said last night at the National Tea Party Convention, we need to be developing all types of energy. And the private sector can handle it just fine.

[ThePatriotsFlag]

Are Green Power Programs a Scam?

---

Yes.

[Blue Collar Christian]

“Using green energy is like spending $2,000 an ounce mining for gold. No sane person would do it.”

BUT, you are missing the point q, it’s all about (I just love this term I first saw here on FR about 2 weeks ago) the ECO-BLING!

[freekitty]

In other words you are paying to be scammed.

[Grampa Dave]

The Global Warmers/Alternative Energy pushers/scammers make Madoff look like a piker in comparison.

[Minn]

Anything that promotes wind or solar as some sort of significant solution to energy problems is a scam.

[BOBTHENAILER]

You got it. Here’ one of the best depictions of the Green Energy Scam I’ve ever read. I guarantee you will love it.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/02/cheap_natural_gas_and_its_demo.html

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Very good,...thanks.

[bitt]

good un, Bob

[Lancey Howard]

Are Green Power Programs a Scam?

"Do ya think, DiNozzo?"

[Lancey Howard]

That’s a great column.
Here is the link to the Free Republic thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2444083/posts

[Marine_Uncle]

Just puts things further in perspective as to who gains to benefit from green industries.

[BOBTHENAILER]

Thanks for the link——I spread it every day.

[SunkenCiv]

If Al Gore is involved, then yes. :') Thanks Ernest.

• The Bum Rap on Biofuels
• Campaign to vilify ethanol revealed

and from Alaska, Minnesota, Missouri, and North Dakota:

• US Reps from Mo. to propose blocking EPA gas rules
• Effort To Block EPA Greenhouse Ruling Now Bipartisan
• House Ag chairman co-sponsors bid to block EPA regs
• Democratic Climate Revolt

[SierraWasp]

Thank you for bring it to us. Emailed the link to all my friends!!!

[DTogo]

Yes, they are a scam.

Most utility scale wind/solar farms have a Power Purchase Agreement with a utility for a given price, and the utilities either bake this price into their rates or try to sell it on the open market for a profit. To ask consumers to "support green energy" with an adder to their rates is nothing more than double-dipping or a marketing ploy of firms like Community Energy in the Northeast.

There are better and more effective ways to support renewable energy development than these "green power" marketing scams.

[wolf78]

Using green energy is like spending $2,000 an ounce mining for gold. No sane person would do it.

There are "green" things that work. As the article says: Or instead, I could spend my premium on efficiency upgrades in my new home: sealing leaks, insulating, and replacing drafty windows. It would just take more time and elbow grease than checking a box.

Most things the state gets involved in are "scams". Even if you rode a bike or a horse you'd still have to pay taxes for road construction and maintenance (gas tax doesn't cover it).

It's because people believe that the state has the right to make such decisions for them, to tell them the right way to live, be it commuting by car or getting wind energy.

BUT, you are missing the point q, it’s all about (I just love this term I first saw here on FR about 2 weeks ago) the ECO-BLING!

The market doesn't care. To each his own bling. If people are free to buy such terrible, terrible (but bling) cars like the Escalade (You want a serious off-roader? Go for a Range Rover), they are also free to buy Priuses or solar panels. As long as it's your money, you are free to choose the way you are being bullsh*tted.

[Blue Collar Christian]

“As long as it’s your money, you are free to choose the way you are being bullsh*tted.”

I agree, as long as it’s your money, spend away and try to make an impression on whomever.

I have a customer who was proud to show me his solar battery charger for his electric P/U truck that was good for a 30 or 40 mile trip into town, shopping and back. The conversion on his truck and the charger cost him more than 8 years’ gas money, but by golly, he was proud of how he is reducing his carbon footprint. Same with his house, figures he’ll recoup the cost of his solar system in 11 years. Mind you, the guy is in his 70s. Bad investments IMHO, but if it blows his skirt up...

[wolf78]

Bad investments IMHO, but if it blows his skirt up...

The thing is: I can totally understand that: It's about men and toys (just like women and shoes). I got a few "projects" of my own(though nothing with solar), like I'm always fiddling around with my computer to make it perfectly silent.

Things are worth exactly as much as someone is willing to pay for them. Is a $2,000 suit a bad investment? Definitely! But humans aren't rational beings. Neither should we be forced to make rational choices - or politically correct irrational choices for that matter. If one pays himself for his solar panels, that's just fine with me.
What many conservatives don't understand: Within the marketplace the lunatic fringe is a good thing. Someone who pays $200,000 for a Mercedes SLS (or even a hydrogen fuel cell car) drives innovation. Early adopters drive down costs for the masses.

Personally, I love technology. I believe that realistically two things can "save the world": Access to free markets and technology. You just don't know which way both are heading, but that's what makes freedom fun.

[BOBTHENAILER]

thanks for the help in spreading the word.

[SierraWasp]

WORD to then liars and frauders!!!