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The Education of John Jay - America’s indispensable diplomat (MUST READ AMERICAN HISTORY!)
City Journal ^ | Winter 2010 | Myron Magnet

Posted on 02/08/2010 12:37:57 AM PST by neverdem

Few could fathom why 55-year-old John Jay turned down President Adams’s nomination to rejoin the Supreme Court when his two terms as New York’s governor ended. What would lead him, in the hale prime of life, to retire instead to the plain yellow house he’d just built on a hilltop at the remote northern edge of Westchester County, two days’ ride from Manhattan, where visitors were few and the mail and newspapers came but once a week? After 27 years at the forge of the new nation’s founding, why would so lavishly talented a man give up his vital role on the world stage for the quiet life of a gentleman farmer?...

(Excerpt) Read more at city-journal.org ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Politics/Elections; US: New York
KEYWORDS: americanhistory; americanrevolution; founders; foundingfathers; godsgravesglyphs; johnadams; johnjay
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It's long, but worth the effort, IMHO.
1 posted on 02/08/2010 12:37:58 AM PST by neverdem
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To: Pharmboy

This is a gem, IMHO.


2 posted on 02/08/2010 12:40:16 AM PST by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: neverdem
Yes, a great article. I got about half-way through reading it and will finish it tomorrow.
3 posted on 02/08/2010 12:54:55 AM PST by stripes1776 ("That if gold rust, what shall iron do?" --Chaucer)
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To: All

BUMP for later reading...


4 posted on 02/08/2010 1:16:10 AM PST by MplsSteve
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To: neverdem

great article, thank you!!

I’d never known nearly so much about John Jay, beyond the main outline of his achievements and offices

A truly incredible member of our founding fathers

I had not at all realized how crucial a role he played in the treaty negotiations with France and in protecting US interests therin — that is often presented as a Franklin-dominated effort, but this certainly makes it seem that the new USA would have been greatly disadvantaged had Jay not engaged in such subtle and determined negotiations.


5 posted on 02/08/2010 1:31:32 AM PST by Enchante (Obamanation: are you really concerned about "foreign" campaign donations? Let's see all of yours!!)
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To: neverdem

Thanks for posting...great read.


6 posted on 02/08/2010 1:32:26 AM PST by kalee (The offences we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: neverdem

One thought which I’ve had many times before, but which this article impresses upon me even more strongly (because Jay is relatively neglected as one of the key “founders”) is that if one takes a list of the key members of that generation, each one individually and most certainly all of them together are greater, wiser, more moral, more admirable than virtually ANY political leaders ever produced in the Muslim world!

Really, where in the entire history of the Islamic world is there even one leader of such admirable qualities and ideas??? Sure one can point to “great” warriors and “great” tyrants in the Islamic world, but where has there ever been a “great” leader for freedom, constitutional government, and citizens’ rights?

Well, of course, those principles and achievements are virtually non-existent in the entire Islamic world, since “Sharia” law and Muslim beliefs, customs, etc are so much at odds with the principles of a free republic.

Thinking about John Jay, George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Ben Franklin et al.... and of course one can continue the list and also argue the relative merits and order of priority for each one..... truly an amazing generation for all of world history.... but Muslims cannot produce even ONE such figure, or else he/she would be quickly put to death!


7 posted on 02/08/2010 1:43:06 AM PST by Enchante (Obamanation: are you really concerned about "foreign" campaign donations? Let's see all of yours!!)
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To: All

oops, I would certainly include John Adams in any such list!!!

and, of course, the list can be considerably expanded with those who had at least one major achievement and/or contribution during that era.... John Paul Jones and quite a variety of early military leaders etc.


8 posted on 02/08/2010 1:55:09 AM PST by Enchante (Obamanation: are you really concerned about "foreign" campaign donations? Let's see all of yours!!)
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To: neverdem

All American students should be required to take a biography course featuring the patriots of the American Revolution every year. Just reading the Founding Fathers’ quotations is quite illuminating of their thought processes, education and moral values.


9 posted on 02/08/2010 2:04:21 AM PST by skr (May God confound the enemy)
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To: Enchante; neverdem
Very good piece showing the time and Jays place in the sequence of events.
It would make for an interesting series to focus on Jay, and his wife, such as was done in the excellent John Adams series.

I especially enjoyed how Jay matured into his position and learned how to deal with Euro intrigue and falsehoods...very good reading!
10 posted on 02/08/2010 2:07:43 AM PST by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus)
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To: neverdem

What an incredibly impressive man! Thank you for posting this article, it is a real treat.


11 posted on 02/08/2010 2:24:38 AM PST by Wpin (I do not regret my admiration for W)
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To: skr

Even in the ‘70s at what was considered a good suburban public school, the level of education in US history was rather poor. I tried to read and study up a lot more on my own, out of interest and also out of a sense that citizens ought to know a lot more than what was being offered in my high school.

With all the rabid liberalism and political correctness since then, I’d guess that few students learn even what was typical in my high school of that era. Yet, even then it was a rather weak coverage of the founders and the whole revolutionary period.


12 posted on 02/08/2010 2:49:44 AM PST by Enchante (Obamanation: are you really concerned about "foreign" campaign donations? Let's see all of yours!!)
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To: neverdem

later


13 posted on 02/08/2010 2:50:05 AM PST by I_be_tc
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To: neverdem

Thank you for posting. Very interesting reading.


14 posted on 02/08/2010 4:32:18 AM PST by Redhd2
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To: neverdem

ping for later


15 posted on 02/08/2010 4:34:53 AM PST by Wife of D28Man
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To: Enchante

“With all the rabid liberalism and political correctness since then, I’d guess that few students learn even what was typical in my high school of that era. “

This is the biggest danger to our Republic now. How can we have a good government elected by an ill-informed citizenry?


16 posted on 02/08/2010 4:42:43 AM PST by RoadTest (The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple. Ps. 119:130)
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To: neverdem
At the Virginia constitutional ratifying convention, Patrick Henry was deeply suspicious of the northeastern states. Since they were dependent on ship borne trade and not agriculture, he feared that they would purposely shut down Mississippi River access for southern farm goods in order to ensure a permanently weak south.

Your post filled in many blanks regarding this matter. Thanks.

17 posted on 02/08/2010 5:35:09 AM PST by Jacquerie (There is food value in beer. There is no beer value in food.)
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To: neverdem

bump for later...


18 posted on 02/08/2010 6:05:10 AM PST by BallparkBoys (Republicans spend $100,000 getting women into clothes while Democrats spend $100,000 getting women o)
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To: neverdem

bump for later


19 posted on 02/08/2010 6:17:53 AM PST by Auntie Mame (Fear not tomorrow. God is already there.)
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To: neverdem
Bump!


20 posted on 02/08/2010 7:56:14 AM PST by rdb3 (The mouth is the exhaust pipe of the heart. WHO DAT!)
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To: neverdem; rmlew

Columbia Ping needed.

Wonderful how so many of our Founding Fathers, Hamilton, Livingston and Jay were students at small King’s College and remained friends throughout their lives.


21 posted on 02/08/2010 8:37:21 AM PST by wildbill (You're just jealous because the Voices talk only to me.)
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To: Enchante

My high school years were in the 70s, and we only had the basic studies even in what was considered one of the better school systems in Florida. The available biographies were of the most simplistic type in the school library, but they still gave one an idea of the people who started America. That was my self-study, because I was never very good at learning dates.


22 posted on 02/08/2010 9:36:38 AM PST by skr (May God confound the enemy)
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To: wildbill

I’ll ping wehen I get home.
PS. Myron Magnet went to Columbia.


23 posted on 02/08/2010 9:52:59 AM PST by rmlew (Democracy tends to ignore..., threats to its existence because it loathes doing what is needed)
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To: wardaddy; Joe Brower; Cannoneer No. 4; Criminal Number 18F; Dan from Michigan; Eaker; Jeff Head; ...
Wear Levi's jeans, pioneer global 'gun control'

Another Look at Obama's Origins Jack Cashill

Irked, Wall St. Hedges Its Bet on Democrats

New Errors In IPCC Climate Change Report Even more baseless claims

Some noteworthy articles about politics, foreign or military affairs, IMHO, FReepmail me if you want on or off my list.

24 posted on 02/08/2010 10:50:55 AM PST by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; 31R1O; ...

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic · subscribe ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Nice one! Great find!
After 27 years at the forge of the new nation's founding, why would so lavishly talented a man give up his vital role on the world stage for the quiet life of a gentleman farmer?
Probably disgusted over the failure of Congress to vote in universal health care and embrace shariah law. ;') Thanks neverdem.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

·Dogpile · Archaeologica · LiveScience · Archaeology · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
· Discover · Nat Geographic · Texas AM Anthro News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo · Google ·
· The Archaeology Channel · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·


25 posted on 02/08/2010 11:02:04 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Happy New Year! Freedom is Priceless.)
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To: neverdem

BTT


26 posted on 02/08/2010 11:18:23 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: neverdem

Bump!


27 posted on 02/08/2010 3:21:16 PM PST by Paul Ross (Ronald Reagan-1987:"We are always willing to be trade partners but never trade patsies.")
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To: neverdem

Wonderful article. Read it though to the end.
Couldn’t stop.


28 posted on 02/08/2010 3:32:29 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: neverdem
Thanks for posting -- took me awhile to finish, but well worth it.

BFL, btw.

Cheers!

29 posted on 02/08/2010 5:17:27 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: neverdem

bookmark


30 posted on 02/08/2010 7:53:31 PM PST by Pelham (ObamaCare, it comes with a toe tag)
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To: neverdem

Thanks for the ping!


31 posted on 02/08/2010 9:10:03 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: neverdem

BUMP for later reading...


32 posted on 02/08/2010 11:35:38 PM PST by IYellAtMyTV (Workday Forecast--Increasing pressure towards afternoon. Rum likely by evening.)
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To: angel90210; pabianice; SlowBoat407; Grampa Dave; Harmless Teddy Bear; international american; ...

Columbia Ping
33 posted on 02/09/2010 10:49:30 AM PST by rmlew (Democracy tends to ignore..., threats to its existence because it loathes doing what is needed)
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To: neverdem; indcons; Chani; thefactor; blam; aculeus; ELS; Doctor Raoul; mainepatsfan; timpad; ...

The Honourable John Jay

Thanks, neverdem, for the post and ping...lots of terrific material in this.

The RevWar/Colonial History/General Washington ping list...

34 posted on 02/09/2010 11:24:30 AM PST by Pharmboy (The Stone Age did not end because they ran out of stones...)
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To: rmlew

Thank you, rm.


35 posted on 02/09/2010 12:00:27 PM PST by Piranha (Obama won like Bernie Madoff attracted investors: by lying about his values, policy and plans.)
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To: neverdem

bookmark


36 posted on 02/09/2010 12:05:28 PM PST by Godebert
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To: neverdem

“Oh! my dr. Mr. Jay,” Sally wrote, when all the kids had fevers, “shd. you too be unwell & absent from me, & I deprived of the satisfaction & consolation of attending you how wretched I shd. be!”

What a Lady, Mrs. Jay.


37 posted on 02/09/2010 12:16:17 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: neverdem

What a remarkable man. The Founders did not enrich themselves from the public trough or use their fame to build a personal fortune, unlike so many in our time. They wanted nothing more than to give of themselves to build a free, strong and great country. Their highest calling seems to have been to be a citizen of this country.


38 posted on 02/09/2010 1:08:46 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: Pharmboy

bump


39 posted on 02/09/2010 1:50:05 PM PST by NonValueAdded (Mass. elects Scott Brown. NVA:" for the first time in my adult life I am proud of my birth state")
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To: neverdem

Thank you !! I downloaded after getting roughly 1/3 way through. Seems we’ll have a few more snow days here in VA to complete the reading.

I grew up on the ‘outer fringes’ of Westchester (not quite so outer when I lived there, of course). The local school was named for local patriot John Jay. Ultimately he came to disfavor among certain of his peers and contemporaries, so not that much has been written about him, so this will be a fun exercise.


40 posted on 02/09/2010 3:10:59 PM PST by EDINVA (Sarchasm (n): The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.)
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To: Enchante

I was wondering how these men were educated. It’s wonderful learning about them, but who taught them and how?


41 posted on 02/09/2010 8:28:53 PM PST by huldah1776
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To: neverdem; Pharmboy

I am going to share this. Wonderful article.


42 posted on 02/11/2010 12:58:31 AM PST by AmericaUnite
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To: huldah1776
Many of them went to university, for instance, John Adams and John Hancock were Harvard graduates. Jefferson, William and Mary; Hamilton, Columbia; Madison, Princeton. Franklin and Washington never graduated college for varied reason. Men of wealth at that time also had extensive private libraries. Tutors were also common.

It was also not uncommon for the wealthier to send their children to England or France for education.

43 posted on 02/11/2010 5:13:46 AM PST by Pharmboy (The Stone Age did not end because they ran out of stones...)
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To: 14themunny; 21stCenturion; 300magnum; A Strict Constructionist; abigail2; AdvisorB; Aggie Mama; ...

Federalist/Anti-Federalist ping. Old article, but a great read.


44 posted on 02/12/2015 9:58:03 PM PST by Publius ("Who is John Galt?" by Billthedrill and Publius now available at Amazon.)
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To: wildbill
Columbia Ping needed

Now a bastion of Marxist thought with free speech blocked. How sad.

45 posted on 02/13/2015 3:34:49 AM PST by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: huldah1776; Pharmboy

Back in their day there were fewer diversions in a life that constantly reminded them of the necessity of doing work. I believe it was Jefferson who wrote that if one did not properly plan and work throughout the year they would eat oatmeal all winter.


46 posted on 02/13/2015 3:44:07 AM PST by Loud Mime (Keep the Commandments; it's better than gambling on forgiveness.)
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To: Loud Mime

I actually do have oatmeal almost every morning! But must thank you for the reminder of our great founding fathers on a morning when I worry about 300 Marines surrounded by the desert but only 15 minutes from daesh. Where are those who are taught principle and honor?

Also, love the author. Was shocked that a journal called “City” would have such an editor, but haven’t researched the magazine (just finished and will eventually subscribe). Will be reading the author’s articles and posting one to it’s own thread.


47 posted on 02/13/2015 5:32:48 AM PST by huldah1776
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To: Vaquero

I think Lew is the Freeper with a Columbia ping list. I don’t know how to find him.


48 posted on 02/13/2015 6:23:15 AM PST by wildbill (If you check behind the shower curtain for a murderer, and find one... what's your plan?)
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To: Pharmboy

Both Jay and Hamilton have buildings named after them in Columbia’s current location. In their day, Columbia was King’s College and located near Trinity Church in the financial district.


49 posted on 02/13/2015 6:55:34 AM PST by wildbill (If you check behind the shower curtain for a murderer, and find one... what's your plan?)
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To: Publius

Thank you for sharing. Excellent!


50 posted on 02/13/2015 10:26:08 AM PST by loveliberty2
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