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Lieberman: 'Land for Peace' is Dead
INN ^ | 2/8/10 | Hillel Fendel

Posted on 02/08/2010 9:20:35 AM PST by Nachum

(IsraelNN.com) Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, head of the Israel Our Home party, says, "It's time to forget our obsession of "territory in exchange for peace; all future agreements must be based on 'peace in exchange for peace.'"

Speaking at a party faction meeting on Monday, Lieberman said, "Peace is in fact our heart's desire, but it is not more important than Israel's existence as the state of the Jewish people or than lasting security for its citizens. We extend our hand in peace to enemies, but as long as they choose the path of war, we must be firm, return battle, and defeat the enemy. We must strive for victory instead of talking about possible compromise, interpreted as weakness by our enemies.

(Excerpt) Read more at israelnationalnews.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Israel; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: avigdorlieberman; bhomiddleeast; dead; land; lieberman; peace

1 posted on 02/08/2010 9:20:35 AM PST by Nachum
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To: Nachum

Good move. The Islamists will never give peace for land. Those ideas are delusional.


2 posted on 02/08/2010 9:23:16 AM PST by originalbuckeye
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To: Nachum

Actually, “land for peace” is the right policy. Its just that they have the wires reversed.

Every breach of the peace should result in land being annexed by Israel. Every rocket that makes it over the fence, every deluded teen-aged suicide bomber that makes it through the checkpoint should be answered by moving the border fence forward, permanently.

They won’t have to do it many times before the lesson is learned.


3 posted on 02/08/2010 9:27:17 AM PST by marron
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To: Nachum

For a moment, I thought this might be US Senator Joe Lieberman, and I was shocked that he spoke so sensibly. Still, I’m glad to hear an Israeli leader who finally gets it.


4 posted on 02/08/2010 9:32:38 AM PST by Pollster1 (Natural born citizen of the USA, with the birth certificate to prove it)
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To: originalbuckeye

Isn’t any wonder? Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit. The poison of vipers is on their lips. Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness. Their feet are swift to shed blood; ruin and misery mark their ways, and the way of peace they do not know.

All of this is because there is no fear of God before their eyes.


5 posted on 02/08/2010 9:32:51 AM PST by naturalized
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To: marron

They must hold Golan and the Jordan River valley.

Only the last stand of a handful of Israeli armor
kept Syria from sweeping into the Galilee in 1973;
without the Golan buffer the State would have been lost.


6 posted on 02/08/2010 9:33:55 AM PST by rahbert
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To: Nachum

Makes perfect sense. Let’s hope Israel’s leaders have finally, finally learned that lesson - each time they give away part of their tiny state, they get greater terrorism, not less. Israel has taken apart the homes and communities and transferred populations of so many in an elusive pipe dream that predictably turned into a pipe bomb.

If the Palestinian Arab leaders and their Muslim and Communist and useful idiot financial backers ever realize that Israel has the right and the obligation by international law and God’s law - even Allah’s law and Karl Marx’s law- to live and thrive in the world’s one, universally recognized Jewish homeland..Palestine/Israel. there will true peace for all.

Muslims have full civil rights, including medical, educational and legal rights and services in tiny Israel, but, in stark contrast, the Muslim countries refuse Jews the right to live in their vast Muslim countries.

Is there outrage for injustice against Jews? Where is the world’s voice on Muslim racism and violation of human rights and its cancerous incitement and production of terrorism? Instead voices that can be called nothing short of evil join with a rehearsed useful idiot chorus in an attempt to destroy the world’s Jewish country.


7 posted on 02/08/2010 10:00:49 AM PST by Seeing More Clearly Now
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To: AdmSmith; Berosus; bigheadfred; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Fred Nerks; ...
"Peace is in fact our heart's desire, but it is not more important than Israel's existence as the state of the Jewish people or than lasting security for its citizens. We extend our hand in peace to enemies, but as long as they choose the path of war, we must be firm, return battle, and defeat the enemy. We must strive for victory instead of talking about possible compromise, interpreted as weakness by our enemies."
Israel should withdraw to the pre-war 1967 borders -- then when the Arabs inevitably attack, completely annihilate their armies, expel all Arabs from Israel, Gaza, and "the West Bank", clean out the Hizzies in Lebanon with whatever level of force and explosives is necessary, and leave a greasy spot where Damascus is now -- then take Sinai back if Egypt participated in the war. Thanks Nachum, I needed a good rant today.
8 posted on 02/08/2010 10:10:26 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Happy New Year! Freedom is Priceless.)
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To: Nachum

I know my view isn’t popular here but Lieberman isn’t right about this. In a very few years the majority of the population between the Jordan River and the sea will be Arab. Unless you can slow down the reproduction rate among the Palestinians you’d have minority rule in Israel. That is a recipe for disaster.

Israel needs to divorce itself from Arab population centers. It needs to be done on terms that are beneficial to Israel’s security, not based on the 1949 armistice line, the so-called 1967 borders that were never recognized or agreed upon borders for anything.

Yes, Israel must keep control of the Jordan Valley until we have had at least a generation of peace. I don’t see that happening anytime soon. We must keep strategic high ground east of the green line, places like Gilboa and Alfe Menashe. We certainly should keep the Jewish suburbs of Jerusalem. We should keep areas that were Jewish prior to 1948 such as the Etzion bloc. Jerusalem should never be divided and we should never surrender the Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hebron or the Jewish enclave there. I would create a finger of land within the fence as has been done with Ariel to reach Hebron and the nearby Jewish communities like Kiryat Arba.

You can do all of that and still have a contiguous area encompassing perhaps 80% or even 85% of the West Bank that could be autonomous and have Arab self-rule in those areas, a disarmed state of sorts, such as Prime Minister Netanyahu envisions. Other than the Philadelphi Road, Israel should never reoccupy Gaza.

Do those things and you can claim a Palestinian state, albeit one with no power to attack Israel and no agreed upon borders, and maintain nearly the 80% Jewish majority Israel now enjoys.

Will the Arabs accept this? Of course not! I’m not saying we should give them much choice in the matter.


9 posted on 02/08/2010 1:19:35 PM PST by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know" -Klaus Schulze)
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
Middle East and terrorism, occasional political and Jewish issues Ping List. High Volume

If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.

..................

10 posted on 02/08/2010 3:46:39 PM PST by SJackson (In wine there is wisdom, In beer there is freedom, In water there is bacteria.)
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To: Nachum
We extend our hand in peace to enemies, but as long as they choose the path of war, we must be firm, return battle, and defeat the enemy. We must strive for victory instead of talking about possible compromise, interpreted as weakness by our enemies.

A concept lost on Obama.

Imagine; compromise being interpreted as weakness. . .

11 posted on 02/08/2010 5:49:32 PM PST by cricket
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To: naturalized

For a second there, I thought you were talking about somebody in Congress.


12 posted on 02/08/2010 9:03:38 PM PST by thulldud
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To: Nachum
Wow, some 30+ years after the Camp David Agreements, Israel gets it.

The Palestinians are pretty much irrelevant now.

13 posted on 02/08/2010 10:05:26 PM PST by happygrl (Continuing to predict that 0bama will resign)
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To: anotherview

> In a very few years the majority of the population between the Jordan River and the sea will be Arab.

You are either ignorant of the true population statistics for greater Israel, or you don’t mind repeating a known lie because it supports your vision for the future.

http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=46839

...
DEMOGRAPHIC ASSUMPTIONS have played an increasing role in shaping national security policy since 1992. But what if these assumptions are dramatically wrong? For example, since the beginning of annual aliya in 1882 - and in contradiction to demographic projections - the Jewish population between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean has grown 238-fold, while the Arab population increased only sixfold. Since 1948, the Jewish population has increased almost tenfold, and the Arab population has expanded threefold.

Israel’s demographers did not believe that a massive aliya would take place in the aftermath of the 1948/9 war. One million Jews arrived. They projected no substantial aliya from the communist bloc during the 1970s. Almost 300,000 Jews arrived. They dismissed the possibility of a massive aliya from the USSR, even if the gates were opened. One million olim relocated from the Soviet Union to the Jewish homeland during the 1990s.

Contrary to demographic assumptions, a rapid and drastic decline in Muslim fertility has been documented by the UN Population Division: Iran - 1.7 births per woman; Algeria - 1.8 births; Egypt - 2.5 births; Jordan - three births; and so on. The Arab fertility rate in pre-1967 Israel declined 20 years faster than projected, and Judea and Samaria Arab fertility has dropped below 4.5 births per woman, tending toward three births.

Precedents suggest that low fertility rates can rarely be reversed following a sustained period of significant reduction.

At the same time, the annual number of Jewish births increased by 45 percent between 1995 (80,400) and 2008 (117,000), mostly impacted by the demographic surge within the secular sector. The total annual Arab births in pre-1967 Israel stabilized around 39,000 during the same period, reflecting the successful Arab integration into the infrastructure of education, employment, health, trade, politics and sports.
...
The audit of Palestinian and Israeli documentation exposes a 66% bend in the current number of Judea and Samaria Arabs - 1.55 million and not 2.5 million, as claimed by the PA. It certifies a solid 67% Jewish majority over 98.5% of the land west of the Jordan River (without Gaza), compared with a 33% and an 8% Jewish minority in 1947 and 1900, respectively, west of the Jordan River. An 80% majority is attainable by 2035 with the proper demographic policy, highlighting aliya, returning expatriates, etc.


14 posted on 02/09/2010 3:07:04 AM PST by Mr170IQ
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To: Mr170IQ

Recommended Reading:

ISRAEL, THAT DEADLY PIECE OF DIRT

(Pro-Israel)

Author: Peter S. Ruckman, Ph.D.
Bible Baptist Bookstore
Pensacola, Florida

You can Google that.

Great read.


15 posted on 02/09/2010 3:20:45 AM PST by John Leland 1789 (But then, I'm accused of just being a troll, so . . . .)
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To: anotherview
Lieberman said:

Any future agreement will be based on peace for peace, and on the conception of maximum separation of the Jewish and Arab populaces

It is his position that is unpopular in Israel and the world, not yours.

16 posted on 02/09/2010 8:06:43 AM PST by dervish (I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself)
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To: Nachum

You killed her! You killed the wicked piece. Hail, Lieberman. The wicked piece process is dead.


17 posted on 02/09/2010 11:54:02 AM PST by Eleutheria5 ( Two-state solution: A bad idea whose time has gone.)
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To: Mr170IQ

The article you quote has been widely disputed in the Israeli press. The government doesn’t see it the way this writer does, including Prime Minister Netanyahu and Defense Minister Barak. The Yesha Council and others in the settler movement as well as their supporters on the far right of Israeli politics (as in we’re not talking about Likud or mainstream conservatives) has been trying to minimize the Arab population for years. Their numbers cannot be verified and are not generally accepted.

I suspect I am more in touch with Israeli demographics and the Hebrew media than you are considering where I live.


18 posted on 02/11/2010 10:43:02 AM PST by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know" -Klaus Schulze)
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To: Mr170IQ

Oh, and my “vision of the future” is a secure, safe and Jewish Israel. Nothing else will do and any other considerations, including the idea of peace someday. are secondary.


19 posted on 02/11/2010 10:45:55 AM PST by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know" -Klaus Schulze)
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To: Eleutheria5
You killed her! You killed the wicked piece. Hail, Lieberman. The wicked piece process is dead

Wishful thinking on your part. The Foreign Minister is not that powerful and, in this case, was not speaking for the government as a whole.

The peace process has been dead for a very long time. When it comes to the Palestinians it never really was alive. Unfortunately Israel's friends in the West haven't figured that out yet.

Right now I am far more worried about the Iranian nuclear threat than anything else. I see my government dithering. I see the American government ready to accept a nuclear Iran without saying so. This worries me immensely.

20 posted on 02/11/2010 10:49:03 AM PST by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know" -Klaus Schulze)
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To: anotherview

Yes, all true. But he’s just informed everyone that the emperor is butt nekkid, and perhaps thereby thrown a healthy bucket of cold water on the piece process, that can then melt into the puddle of brown “sugar” (something else that starts with “S”) it always was. Foreign Ministers are not that powerful, but they’re hardly irrelevant, either. It can only be a good thing that he finally said it out loud and in public.


21 posted on 02/11/2010 1:26:37 PM PST by Eleutheria5 ( Two-state solution: A bad idea whose time has gone.)
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To: Eleutheria5

I’m still not at all sure it’s a good thing. Sometimes it really is helpful for diplomats to be diplomatic. Lieberman isn’t.


22 posted on 02/12/2010 8:41:08 AM PST by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know" -Klaus Schulze)
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To: Nachum

Gee Joe, all you had to do was ask any palestinian,
they would have told you that.


23 posted on 02/12/2010 8:44:08 AM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: Nachum

Ah, sorry , not joe. My mistake.


24 posted on 02/12/2010 8:44:37 AM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: rahbert
Only the last stand of a handful of Israeli armor kept Syria from sweeping into the Galilee in 1973; without the Golan buffer the State would have been lost.

More to the point, the Golan Heights control an important water source.

25 posted on 02/12/2010 8:47:13 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (Public healthcare looks like it will work as well as public housing did.)
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To: anotherview

Since Oslo, we’ve had hundreds of civilians killed and two major wars that accomplished absolutely nothing. Diplomats being diplomatic has not worked at all. I don’t know much about high level diplomacy, but I know the difference between peace and piece. Enough already.


26 posted on 02/13/2010 9:10:30 AM PST by Eleutheria5 ( Two-state solution: A bad idea whose time has gone.)
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