Posted on 02/08/2010 2:06:18 PM PST by SeekAndFind
Even with its centuries-old roots throughout the continent, is Christianity history in the West?
In a speech at the Catholic University of America in Washington, D.C., the visiting archbishop of Vienna, Christoph Cardinal Schönborn, warned that “trends questioning the Christian foundation of Europe, and aggressively opposing it, are becoming stronger in several countries and in the European political arena in general.”
He explained that “Christianity is for many a foreign element in a world determined by reason, Enlightenment and democratic principles.” He contends that “this Europe, and the Western world as a whole, will not survive without the foreignness Christianity brings. In other words: Europe can only play its role in the concert of world cultures when it retains Christianity, this foreign body, as a part of its identity.”
Almost simultaneously across the pond, the British seemed to get the message, putting aside negotiations that would have placed unprecedented restrictions on religious freedom in the name of a faux freedom. Mandates proposed by the so-called “equality bill” would have removed existing exemptions for religious organizations regarding whom they can employ and to whom they must provide services. Catholic officials in Britain believed that the legislation would force them to ordain women to the priesthood — both an untenable position for the Church and one that the government certainly had no business forcing them into.
The bill was referred to as “an existential threat” to Christian churches in Europe. Sir Jonathan Sacks, the chief rabbi in England, said: “When Christians, Jews, and others feel that the ideology of human rights is threatening their freedoms of association and religious practice, a tension is set in motion that is not healthy for society, freedom, or Britain.”
Britain appears to have put a stop to this — for now. It probably helped that lawmakers were shepherded by the pope himself: During a gathering of bishops from England and Wales in Rome, Pope Benedict XVI heralded Britain’s “firm commitment to equality of opportunity for all members of society.” But he had critical words for the pending legislation. “The effect of some of the legislation designed to achieve this goal has been to impose unjust limitations on the freedom of religious communities to act in accordance with their beliefs,” he said. “In some respects it actually violates the natural law upon which the equality of all human beings is grounded and by which it is guaranteed.”
Demonstrating his familiarity with the tyranny of not-so-tolerant tolerance, the Holy Father proclaims that “fidelity to the Gospel in no way restricts the freedom of others — on the contrary, it serves their freedom by offering them the truth.” He reminded the bishops there that their participation in the debate is in the best “traditions” of Britain — “freedom of expression and honest exchange of opinion” while “giving voice to the convictions of many people who lack the means to express them: when so many of the population claim to be Christian, how could anyone dispute the Gospel’s right to be heard?”
The attitudes expressed in the bill are not foreign to us here in America. Pres. Barack Obama’s nominee for the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, a Georgetown University professor named Chai Feldblum, wrote in 2006 that “just as we do not tolerate private racial beliefs that adversely affect African-Americans in the commercial arena, even if such beliefs are based on religious views, we should similarly not tolerate private beliefs about sexual orientation and gender identity that adversely affect LGBT [lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender] people.” Feldblum believes that there is a “zero-sum game” being played between religious freedom and the homosexual activists, in which “a gain for one side necessarily entails a corresponding loss for the other side.” Religious liberty, in Feldblum’s estimation, must give.
This conversation about religious liberty, homosexuality, and rights will be a prominent one this term as the U.S. Supreme Court takes up Christian Legal Society v. Martinez, in which it will decide whether religious groups on college campuses must be open to members and leaders who do not share their beliefs. The Court will decide, in other words, whether we’re still free to associate or not.
Religious liberty and LGBT activists simply shouldn’t be at odds. Christian churches don’t seek to eliminate LGBT groups, and LGBT groups needn’t threaten the existence of religious congregations that can’t in their moral consciences do as that British equality law — and some laws we’ve seen proposed in the United States (and even passed by the U.S. Senate!) — would have them do.
As David French, a lawyer for the Alliance Defense Fund, which specializes in religious-liberty litigation, recently put it: “If your idea of law is that it is an instrument of domination and exclusion, then, yes, legal disputes between ideological opposites are ‘zero-sum games.’ But if your idea of the Constitution is that it protects the fundamental liberties of all citizens (which happens to be the way the document is written), then — quite literally — everyone wins when those liberties are vindicated.”
Christianity will be history if we cut ourselves off from our roots — moral, yes, but legal, ethical, and political, too. And while more of us need to have a heightened awareness that this threat exists throughout the West — mercifully, it’s not only a pope and a cardinal and even a rabbi who get that.
— Kathryn Jean Lopez is editor-at-large of National Review Online. She can be contacted at klopez@nationalreview.com.
Losing Our Religion (Christianity will be history if we cut ourselves off from our roots)
LOL.... now that's a real big laugh....
I don't care how bad things get, Christianity is never going to be "history"... :-) I hope someone doesn't actually believe that kind of garbage.
I'm not saying how bad the world can get, because it will get worse, but I'm saying that this won't affect Christianity in the least, because it's the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who has all the say and control over all things in this world...
This is what those in the world who think Christianity will ever be "history" -- should be aware of....
Psalms Chapter 2 1 Why do the nations rage, And the people plot a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, And the rulers take counsel together, Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying, 3 "Let us break Their bonds in pieces And cast away Their cords from us." 4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; The Lord shall hold them in derision. 5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath, And distress them in His deep displeasure: 6 "Yet I have set My King On My holy hill of Zion." 7 "I will declare the decree: The Lord has said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You. 8 Ask of Me, and I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession. 9 You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel.' " 10 Now therefore, be wise, O kings; Be instructed, you judges of the earth. 11 Serve the Lord with fear, And rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, And you perish in the way, When His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.
1 Cor 1
Christ the Wisdom and Power of God
18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”[c]
Galatians 6:14 (New International Version)
14May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which[a] the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
Christianity will never be lost.
I don’t think the author expressed herself very well. The Cardinal said that Western culture would be history if cut off from Christianity, and I think she was trying to say that rejection of Western culture, particularly as it relates to law and the individual, would lead to repression or possibly suppression of the Christian Church in Western society and an attempt to eliminate it.
It might go underground, it’s certainly not going to disappear! We have God’s promise on that issue.
Nothing guarantees that Christianity will be dominant in the West forever. Sure, the Church will always be in existence for eternity, but it could lose its dominant status in the West just like it did, for example, in Turkey when Islam invaded.
Of course, we hope and pray that spiritual forces in the West would kindle into a revival, but warnings should be heeded.
Christianity certainly could be lost (as the speaker said) in the West, just like it was lost in major parts of Asia Minor, the Middle East and North Africa.
Christianity will always remain in some part of the world.
The Apostle Peter’s theology:
1 Peter 1
1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
13Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
22Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
We are losing Christianity because we are abandoning Christ. When Christians begin to follow Jesus and his teachings again, Christianity will return to our culture and our government. It can’t be fixed on the government side.
And we won't be able to, because the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has already decreed that it will happen (and He has allowed it). And what comes out of this -- the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will judge and utterly destory (these governments and this "MOTHER OF HARLOTS" religion -- both...
What will come out of it, will be the new one-world government that Jesus, the Messiah of Israel, sets up on this earth, with Him ruling and reigning from Jerusalem, over all the nations of the world.
The nations of the world will no longer be in control of their governments or countries but Jesus the Messiah of Israel will be -- and that will be the one-world government that we look forward to coming...
Revelation Chapter 17 1 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me, "Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication." 3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication. 5 And on her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement. 7 But the angel said to me, "Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. 8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9 Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. 10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition. 12 The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast. 14 These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful." 15 Then he said to me, "The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. 18 And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth."
Revelation Chapter 18 1 After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illuminated with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a loud voice, saying, "Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird! 3 For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury." 4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. 6 Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her. 7 In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart, 'I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.' 8 Therefore her plagues will come in one day--death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her. 9 "The kings of the earth who committed fornication and lived luxuriously with her will weep and lament for her, when they see the smoke of her burning, 10 standing at a distance for fear of her torment, saying, 'Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour your judgment has come.' 11 And the merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her, for no one buys their merchandise anymore: 12 merchandise of gold and silver, precious stones and pearls, fine linen and purple, silk and scarlet, every kind of citron wood, every kind of object of ivory, every kind of object of most precious wood, bronze, iron, and marble; 13 and cinnamon and incense, fragrant oil and frankincense, wine and oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and bodies and souls of men. 14 The fruit that your soul longed for has gone from you, and all the things which are rich and splendid have gone from you, and you shall find them no more at all. 15 The merchants of these things, who became rich by her, will stand at a distance for fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, 16 and saying, 'Alas, alas, that great city that was clothed in fine linen, purple, and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls! 17 For in one hour such great riches came to nothing.' Every shipmaster, all who travel by ship, sailors, and as many as trade on the sea, stood at a distance 18 and cried out when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, 'What is like this great city?' 19 They threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and wailing, and saying, 'Alas, alas, that great city, in which all who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth! For in one hour she is made desolate.' 20 Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you holy apostles and prophets, for God has avenged you on her!" 21 Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, "Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore. 22 The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters shall not be heard in you anymore. No craftsman of any craft shall be found in you anymore, and the sound of a millstone shall not be heard in you anymore. 23 The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth."
Christianity certainly could be lost (as the speaker said) in the West, just like it was lost in major parts of Asia Minor, the Middle East and North Africa. Christianity will always remain in some part of the world.
Christianity will never be lost, because nothing will prevail against Christianity. God is the one who preserves it.
Various countries and cultures, themselves may lose their connection to Christianity and thus not have it as the foundation and basis for their culture or government, but that's not losing Christianity. That is the culture abandoning God. And even so, when the culture abandons God, Christianity still remains, nonetheless.
So, nothing is going to happen to Christianity, but a lot may happen to the countries and the people and the culture who decide to abandon what God has provided by way of His Son, Jesus, the Messiah of Israel.
But, no worries there, because God has already made it clear that He will judge all the nations in the world, including the United States (obviously included in "all" the nations) for its sins and that will happen during the 7-year Tribulation and during the time of the Great Harlot described above, that harlot of false religion, combining forces with the various governments of the world, to bring in the "one-world government" which will be destroyed by the coming of the Messiah of Israel.
Christianity is not a religion, it is a way to life everlasting.
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my words: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s who sent me.
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
As long as we have leaders that want to enslave the people of this world, God says different in His word.
Absent Christianity, the idea, the Natural Law basis of our Constitution and our country along with it will die.
Of course, we hope and pray that spiritual forces in the West would kindle into a revival, but warnings should be heeded.
The warnings here in this country have not been heeded for a century or more. It's been slipping and slipping for over a century and nothing has turned it back... so it does not look like it's going to turn around to me. There may be pockets here and there, on a small and local and limited basis, but nothing nationally-speaking.
And that's entirely "in synch" with the picture that the Bible paints, coming up on the coming 7-Year Tribulation and the judgment of God upon all the nations. Things will be getting worse and worse, so that God can judge all the nations, as He will.
The main thing for Christians to do is to speak the Gospel of Salvation to all who will listen, because it's the Gospel of Salvation, per the Scriptures which is what God wants Christians to be engaged in because no matter how "good" and "conservative" a government is -- it cannot save, only Jesus, the Messiah of Israel can save -- and that's God's main purpose before the Messiah of Israel comes back to set up His own one-world government upon this earth.
I don’t think the author expressed herself very well. The Cardinal said that Western culture would be history if cut off from Christianity, and I think she was trying to say that rejection of Western culture, particularly as it relates to law and the individual, would lead to repression or possibly suppression of the Christian Church in Western society and an attempt to eliminate it.
The other problem here, when going down this line of thought is that somehow, some people think that "salvation" can be achieved (in some manner) by the nation being more spiritual or conservative or Christian or something like that. The nation is never "Christian" -- as it's only an individual who is.
Therefore, the main goal is to spread the Gospel of Salvation to all individuals as the matter of primary importance and that can be done no matter what the condition of the government is -- conservative, or liberal, or falling apart and coming apart at the seams.
It's getting the Gospel of Salvation to all individuals for them to accept the salvation that comes from accepting Jesus, as the Messiah of Israel, per the Gospel, which is the primary goal for all Christians (and not what the government is doing, although that would be a commendable secondary goal). But, I fear that the primary goal is being let go of, in place of a secondary goal.
Oh, I don't know about that. Reagan got in with a pretty good majority and as a result the Berlin Wall fell which restored a huge amount of freedom of religion back to Eastern Europe.
The Repub Revolution of '94 happened and a bunch of good things happened as a result such as a lessening of abortion which has been continuing throughout the years. Slow, but sure.
And, now, this author and many, many others are giving warnings (this one you didn't quite get thinking she was saying christianity would be history) while Glenn Beck and Fox News numbers are in the stratosphere and Zero's numbers are plummeting. Somebody out there is obviously getting the message.
End-of-the-Worlders have come and gone. Sure, the end of the world will happen at some point and no one including you knows the date or time. But my suspicion is that the US is going to come back stronger after this current seige of socialism is over.
I believe that we are in agreement.
It is a matter of semantics.
I believe that we must act as if we didn’t know that Christ will prevail in the end. We have been delegated the role of the body of Christ on the earth, and will be judged on our performance in that role, regardless of the eventual outcome, which (we have been assured) is the victory of the Lord.
Oh, I don't know about that. Reagan got in with a pretty good majority and as a result the Berlin Wall fell which restored a huge amount of freedom of religion back to Eastern Europe.
Not in terms of politics and governments and freedom movements and democracy and "the West"... that's all secondary stuff and not very relevant in the scheme of things per the Bible.
It's like these things are "bit players" in the overall grand scheme that God is bringing about, as He says in the Bible. They are here today and gone tomorrow, but the Word of God goes on forever.
What I'm talking about in warnings not heeded is in terms of the Word of God and how it is accepted and used and adhered to in people's lives -- not whether there's a Republican or Democrat in office or whether the West gains advantage against its enemies and so on like that.
When it's all said and done, all the nations of the world will be as nothing compared to the coming Kingdom that Jesus, the Messiah of Israel will set up here on earth, when He sets His foot back on this planet.
That's all been progressing in a "straight line" without deviation for the last 100 years, too... and is building to that final point.
And we see the one-world government being pushed into place, piece by piece, over decades, actually. And it's still moving ahead without slowing down either. This is not an "East/West thing" or a "West against its enemies" thing, or "the have-nations against the have-not nations" thing...
This is about the one-world government that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob says will come into place (as we see it now) and He will judge it and then destroy it and replace it with His own one-world government. That's what Christians look forward to -- this coming one-world government ruled by Jesus, the Messiah of Israel. That's what is going to be the fun part... :-)
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