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The End of Intelligent Design?
First Things ^ | February 9, 2010 | Stephen Barr

Posted on 02/09/2010 3:15:53 PM PST by cornelis

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Derbyshire linked this at NRO
1 posted on 02/09/2010 3:15:53 PM PST by cornelis
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There is an eager discussion at the original site.


2 posted on 02/09/2010 3:16:51 PM PST by cornelis
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To: cornelis
The goal of science is to increase our understanding of the natural world, and there is not a single phenomenon that we understand better today or are likely to understand better in the future through the efforts of ID theorists.

If it turns out life is designed rather than come about via a series of impossible coincidences, I'd say ID has increased the understanding of nature quite a bit.

Or if design was involved in the occurrence of biodiversity rather all being explained by random genomic changes fixed by natural selection, that would be another big benefit of ID.

ID does not reject evolution. It rejects pointlessness.

3 posted on 02/09/2010 3:20:30 PM PST by Tribune7 (Obama Is An Obstructionist)
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To: cornelis

“Very few religious skeptics have been made more open to religious belief because of ID arguments.”

Really? Maybe in the scientific community, but there are thousands of people who find faith in Christianity and therefore believe in ID. I don’t think the scientific community is the arbitor of truth. There are many that do good work, but just look at the so called fear mongers in the GW movement. I will keep my faith in what the good book says.


4 posted on 02/09/2010 3:20:34 PM PST by Bruinator (People are.............Stupid)
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To: cornelis
Hey look, the atmospheric pressure just created a hamburger wrapper!
5 posted on 02/09/2010 3:21:46 PM PST by Mark was here (The earth is bipolar. ---- "OBAMA: THE GREAT MISTAKE OF 2008")
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To: Bruinator

Amen!


6 posted on 02/09/2010 3:28:15 PM PST by doc1019 (To call Obama a bumbling idiot would be an insult to bumbling idiots worldwide.)
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To: cornelis
It is time to take stock: What has the intelligent design movement achieved? As science, nothing. The goal of science is

I was hesitant to respond to this thread, since the straw man is so clumsily (and shamelessly) constructed.

I do, however, note with amusement that the retard didn't take the obvious next step of asserting that evolution was also a science.

7 posted on 02/09/2010 3:28:54 PM PST by Publius6961 (You can't build a reputation on what you are going to do)
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To: Mark was here
The atheist have no idea where or how life originated. They rule out God but not magic crystals or aliens spreading seeds.
8 posted on 02/09/2010 3:32:38 PM PST by peeps36 (Democrats Don't Need No Stinking Input From You Little People)
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To: cornelis

Don’t look for an end to the ID movement because Philip Anschutz, and others, will continue to funnel big, big bucks into the Discovery Institute.


9 posted on 02/09/2010 3:33:56 PM PST by Ben Ficklin
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To: cornelis

I think we’re at the end of intelligence.

Look around.


10 posted on 02/09/2010 3:34:36 PM PST by Uncle Miltie (Liberal Massachussetts says: "FUBO!")
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To: cornelis

I am an evolutionist and also a believer in intelligent design. I have yet to see how they are incompatible.
In fact one can argue that the universe has an obvious evoltionary attractor as its future driven by the second law.
I guess I r stupid.


11 posted on 02/09/2010 3:40:38 PM PST by FastCoyote (I am intolerant of the intolerable.)
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To: Publius6961

You’re not allowed to use the word “retard” anymore. Or maybe it’s “f***ing retard”, it’s hard to keep up.


12 posted on 02/09/2010 3:41:01 PM PST by Eagles6 ( Typical White Guy: Christian, Constitutionalist, Heterosexual, Redneck.)
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To: Bruinator
"faith in Christianity"

Faith in fundamentalist Christianity.

13 posted on 02/09/2010 3:41:18 PM PST by Ben Ficklin
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To: cornelis

This is a pretty dumb article. There’s nothing “scientific” about Darwin’s General Theory of Evolution. Intelligent Design theory has been chiefly valuable in identifying the problems with nailing down Darwinist theory as fact.

Barr must be aware that “young earth” theology is not the same as ID, but he seems to confuse the two.

Father Neuhaus, the founding editor of First Things, is dead. I have been wondering how it would survive in his absense. It’s still a bit early to tell, but this article, and a couple of others, leave me rather doubtful.

I’m disappointed in Stephen Barr and First Things, frankly.


14 posted on 02/09/2010 3:41:51 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: cornelis

Simply put, science is based on the scientific method and reproducible statistical analysis. It is a closed system, in which, if you play by the rules of science, *all* you have done is just that, played by the rules.

An analogy is the game of chess. If you play by the rules, you have played a game. That is all. How the game was played, and who won and lost cannot be interpolated or extrapolated, as if they were magical.

Science, however, can be interpolated and extrapolated. But the further away from the original experiment and analysis, the less likely that the interpolation or extrapolation are correct.

But Intelligent Design has no place in this, because it is neither a control nor variable to the experiment, and it is statistically irreproducible.

Therefore, even if it exists, it has to be ignored, because it cannot be integrated into the system. Again, using the chess analogy, the white knight has put the black king into check, and at this point, some intelligence other than the players intervenes and does something to determine if the king escapes or is mated.

Both players can just sit there for an hour, yet even if they both believe that some intelligence will intervene and complete the game, it will not do so reliably, every time. In fact, it probably won’t at all, ever.

So even taking it into account as part of game play accomplishes nothing. And even if a waiter stumbles into the table and the black king falls over, the players disregard that action, because it is not part of official, recognized game play.

Science has tremendous credibility precisely because it follows rules, is statistically verifiable, and can be reproduced. If something else is integrated into that, in an effort to capitalize on its credibility, its credibility is lost.

Look what harm Al Gore and his company of scoundrels has done to science, in the effort to glom on to its credibility for their own sordid purposes. The study of our climate has been set back decades because of this corruption.

And no matter what its motivation, Intelligent Design would have the same effect.


15 posted on 02/09/2010 3:42:25 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
Science has tremendous credibility precisely because it follows rules, is statistically verifiable

Like the surety of the Science of Anthropogenic Global Warming.

16 posted on 02/09/2010 3:56:02 PM PST by arthurus ("If you don't believe in shooting abortionists, don't shoot an abortionist." -Ann C.)
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To: arthurus

then there is the tale of Noah


17 posted on 02/09/2010 3:58:52 PM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Tax the poor. Taxes will give them a stake in society)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
Science has tremendous credibility precisely because it follows rules, is statistically verifiable, and can be reproduced.

How does Geology and Paleontology fit into this? Yes, certain rules are followed, but how is it statistically verifiable and reproduceable?

I agree that the natural world should be studied as a closed system even though I don't believe it is, however, if scientists are going to refrain from drawing conclusions of ID, they should also refrain from drawing conclusions of not ID, based on these studies. ID exists precisely because of the latter. Also, science needs to admit that it knows very little, compared to all that there is to know, and it will always be that way. A little humility would help credibility.

18 posted on 02/09/2010 3:59:56 PM PST by HerrBlucher (Jail Al Gore and the Climate Frauds!)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

So if I come upon a beautiful house, built next to a desert oasis .. It just ‘happened’ to build itself .. by accident?

Wait .. a human being Must be much simpler to ‘accidentally’ come together. (I understand now) /sarc


19 posted on 02/09/2010 4:00:05 PM PST by plinyelder ("I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born." -- Ronald Reagan)
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To: arthurus
Like the surety of the Science of Anthropogenic Global Warming.

Disingenuous for you to link science with AGW. Nay, dishonest.

20 posted on 02/09/2010 4:00:09 PM PST by Misterioso (To deal with men by force is as impractical as to deal with nature by persuasion. -- Ayn Rand)
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