Posted on 02/15/2010 11:31:05 AM PST by Steelfish
Troops: Strict War Rules Slow Afghan Offensive Sign in to Recommend
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS February 15, 2010
MARJAH, Afghanistan (AP) -- Some American and Afghan troops say they're fighting the latest offensive in Afghanistan with a handicap -- strict rules that routinely force them to hold their fire.
Although details of the new guidelines are classified to keep insurgents from reading them, U.S. troops say the Taliban are keenly aware of the restrictions.
''I understand the reason behind it, but it's so hard to fight a war like this,'' said Lance Cpl. Travis Anderson, 20, of Altoona, Iowa. ''They're using our rules of engagement against us,'' he said, adding that his platoon had repeatedly seen men drop their guns into ditches and walk away to blend in with civilians.
If a man emerges from a Taliban hideout after shooting erupts, U.S. troops say they cannot fire at him if he is not seen carrying a weapon -- or if they did not personally watch him drop one.
What this means, some contend, is that a militant can fire at them, then set aside his weapon and walk freely out of a compound, possibly toward a weapons cache in another location. It was unclear how often this has happened. In another example, Marines pinned down by a barrage of insurgent bullets say they can't count on quick air support because it takes time to positively identify shooters.
''This is difficult,'' Lance Cpl. Michael Andrejczuk, 20, of Knoxville, Tenn., said Monday. ''We are trained like when we see something, we obliterate it. But here, we have to see them and when we do, they don't have guns.''
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
Added “roe” keyword to this thread. This issue seems to be gaining the political momentum it deserves.
The “Rules” are the only reason this is still ongoing.
A 21st century army with air support and all the high-tech doodads you can think of can’t beat a 19th century army with little more than Kalashnikovs and some C4?
It wouldn’t have been pretty, but given a free rein, Rommel and the Afrika Korps would’ve wiped the floor with the Taliban years ago.
War ain’t pretty. Your choice.
The “Rules” are the only reason this is still ongoing.Correct.
That begs the question: Who is the TRUE enemy?
Only when US soldiers get tired of dying for NOTHING, will things change.
BTTT!!!
A civilian who permits a terrorist killer to "blend in" with him is not an "innocent" civilian.
If the scheme is cordon, cleanse, control, it seems our command group wants to do A, and they want to get to C, but they’re unwilling to do B, the step that bridges the gap.
Exterminators know how to kill bugs. Keep them from escaping, kill them, control the environment to prevent re-infection.
Maybe we should put an exterminator in charge instead of a general. They seem to have lost their wits or their courage. I suspect the latter.
Truthfully, call a meeting, all the war lords, Kharzai even the Taliban. We are done, you want to live like civilized people, figure it out. However, we will be flying drones around your borders and if so much of a whisper of yall stirring any $hit comes from within this God forsaken hell hole we will bomb you to oblivion. Good Luck!!!
The mental checklist sounds like it was thought up by a kindergarten teacher!!!
Not ONE Dem on the National Stage EVER uses the word ‘VICTORY’!
This is a military disaster. We telegraphed our punch and now the damned taliban has opened up with hundreds of snipers and we are stuck in a booby trapped city of enemy moslems. We are going to take staggering casualties. Obama should be impeached and the generals who blew this should go to prison.
Sounds very workable.
We can’t gain support from the Afghans, especially those in the hinterlands, unless we convince them that we are serious about winning. One of bin Laden’s speeches is to remind peasants that the Americans threw the South Vietnamese to the wolves by withdrawing troops and funding, and warning them that Al Qaeda and the Taliban will still be around after we leave Afghanistan.
Questions to ponder while bullets are whizzing past one’s ear.
1. “Even if someone has shot in my general direction, am I still in danger?”
Only if he’s using real bullets.
2. “Will I make more enemies than I’ll kill by destroying property, or harming innocent civilians?”
That depends on whether the innocent civilian is shooting in your general direction.
3. “— What are my other options to resolve this without escalating the violence?”
When a U.S. Army general is asking you stupid questions like the first two, locate the nearest dune buggy and point it toward Khazakstan.
This ROE is just wrong. Can it get anymore insane under this administration?
These wars now : I've been told the ROE are worse than ever, and one difference is the apparent massive brainwashing undergone by the generals--McCrystal, for example. Remember that the USS Cole was unarmed! Look how long ago that was, yet Pres. Klinton made no changes, he was as scornful of the military as the faker in the WH today. Both Bush Sr and his son? Certainly not scornful, but something seriously lacking in either man or they would have demanded change.
Incidentally, Klinton's War (Kosovo) was absolute slaughter of Christians using our planes disguised as "NATO". Klinton should have been hanged for war crimes.
>>”A 21st century army with air support and all the high-tech doodads you can think of can’t beat a 19th century army with little more than Kalashnikovs and some C4?”
The Soviet Army couldn’t manage to do it.
>>”It wouldn’t have been pretty, but given a free rein, Rommel and the Afrika Korps would’ve wiped the floor with the Taliban years ago.”
The Soviets were utterly ruthless. Case in point: they sowed the ground with mines made to look like kids toys, with the intent that children would pick them up and lose life or limb.
DG
>>”...Americans threw the South Vietnamese to the wolves by withdrawing troops and funding...”
So, are you saying that we should do the same to the Afghans?
>>”...locate the nearest dune buggy and point it toward Khazakstan.”
Sounds almost like you are advocating Desertion.
DG
These ROEs and the JCS licking Obama’s boots are going to kill this country. It certainly is costing us our precious heroes.
I can imagine a murder charge being the result of these murky and impossible rules of engagement.
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