I am beginning to think America will become like urban China, everyone will be forced to travel by bicycle.
That mind pic is out of date.
Posted on 02/23/2010 8:28:01 AM PST by Lorianne
Just over a year ago, and spurred by an article in Time, I wrote a post on the possible global supply of lithium, which is used in renewable batteries, and a major choice for use in the batteries of electric vehicles, such as the Chevy Volt. Since the story has acquired more recent interest this week, and with new information, it is worth re-visiting the topic.
Since we also look at processing, I became curious about where and how the lithium is mined. Recently, however, h/t to JoulesBurn, there was an article by Jack Lifton explaining some additional production issues. So what I thought I’d do is to integrate some of this additional information into a more up-to-date post.
It turns out that most lithium comes from salt lake deposits such as those in Chile and Bolivia.
The biggest deposit in the world lies in the Salar de Uyini, Bolivia, which is also the world’s largest salt flat. A quick look through Google Earth gives the location, with the white in the picture being the salt flat, and not snow. La Paz, the capital of Bolivia is at the top.
(Excerpt) Read more at oilprice.com ...
So we’de trade oil shortages and price spikes for lithium shortages and price spikes, even though EV’s are a small percentage of manufactured cars, shortages are already occuring.
Sounds like trouble in Obamaville’s green universe.
So we build nuclear plants so the energy is available.
And we continue to do battery research with other kinds of materials. And continue to research hydrogen power too.
We should have conversion kits for the most popular cars, designed and ready to go into production in case of another oil price shock.
Horses on treadmills!
I am beginning to think America will become like urban China, everyone will be forced to travel by bicycle.
the BBC of all people did an excellent report on how if you break down the manufacturing process for each of the components (like batteries), the production of a so-called “green” car is far more damaging to the environment than a traditional combustion engine model.
Bolivia is also controlled by a commie friend of Hugo Chavez. Supply can be whatever they want it to be. Bolivia should be a good lab experiment between greed and dogma.
That will be true globally in a few decades unless nuclear fusion is harnessed in the meantime. The bicycle is the most efficient transportation ever invented.
Electric cars are bogus anyway.
I am beginning to think America will become like urban China, everyone will be forced to travel by bicycle.
That mind pic is out of date.
We’ve hit “peak lithium”?
Environmentalism is a religion not a science. It is based on your belief system of the world. You can’t convince someone through logic.
Do you happen to have a link for that BBC report?
My normally rational daughter has been pushing me to watch "Who Killed the Electric Car". Now I have my own answer to that question: NOBODY, it was done in by the Law of Supply and Demand since the GM electric car was simply too expensive to manufacture. But of course I could be wrong. It happens rarely but it is not entirely impossible.
So if there are any Freepers out there who really know Who Killed The Electric Car I would be very in interested their views on the subject.
The reason we don't yet have them is that either they don't work, or they are unwanted.
So we build nuclear plants so the energy is available.We?And we continue to do battery research with other kinds of materials. And continue to research hydrogen power too.
We should have conversion kits for the most popular cars, designed and ready to go into production in case of another oil price shock.
"We" are broke.
Who are you and who is "we"?
Note: What produces the electricity electric cars run on?
Most electricity in the USA is still produced by the combustion of fossil fuels (coal, oil). So electric cars are STILL run on fossil fuels.
Until we get most electric capacity from hydro, geo, nuclear, wind, etc., electric cars are not “green”.
I saw it and I’d be interested in knowing the other side of the story, too.
The people who had these cars all wanted to keep them, and GM forced them to give them up (part of the terms of the original agreement). The cars were then subsequently destroyed, even though their “owners” (actually leasors) were begging to keep them.
Which was another odd thing; they would only lease the cars even though the people were begging to buy them.
Odd.
Some are probably designed already. But they aren't cost justified yet. Notice I didn't say "produce", I said "ready to go into production in case".
We've known the dangers of an oil price shock since the early 70's. And what have we done about it? Nothing. We shut down the building of new nuclear plants. We made it unprofitable to drill our own oil. And we've done nothing to prepare for another price shock.
Well another oil price shock hit two years ago and is THE major factor in this economic crisis. People didn't buy homes they couldn't afford. They bought homes they could no longer afford once gas prices doubled on them.
I'm not saying do something stupid like the ethanol program and put it into large scale production before it's viable. But I am saying get ready, build the designs if they don't exist already, so that you can ramp production at a moments notice.
No, we are not broke. We are far from broke. You might be broke, but the nation still has a fantastic amount of wealth, despite Obama and the porkocrats.
We are the nation. We can do things that make sense. We can use the national credit to provide loans to build nuclear plants. And we can recoup those funds from the revenue streams produced and all the labor taxes that will be produced.
And we can fund research, just like we always have. Heck, if we killed the stupid ethanol program that's not saving any gasoline but is just burning up our corn, we could fund a lot of research, with the money saved.
Stimulus plans aren't always evil. There are infrastructure projects out there like nuclear plants, and improving the electrical grid, that makes sense to do now. That would put people back to work and help the economy.
The problem we have is that the current congress has no credibility. They squander stimulus funds on things like condoms and starting unfunded programs that need more funds in the future and generate zero payback, instead of building infrastructure that will pay for itself in the long run.
*WE* don't need to do anything of the sort.
All *WE* need to do is ensure that our government frees up business of onerous regulation, whether they do it via scientific fraud or any other means.
Additionally, *WE* need to ensure that the taxes and spending are low and the business climate favorable to the best and brightest around the world to want to come and set-up shop here.
If *WE* do these things there will be few problems that we won't be able to overcome. And if we fail we will have failed with the knowledge that there was nothing else we could have done.
I will submit to you that if you think *WE* should do this and that to solve some problem, you are already down the slippery slope of a centralized government taking over your life.
And if there is anything I know with the certainty of 1+1=2, it is that centralized government will absolutely not be able to solve any of the problems facing us in the future.
It's not odd at all. Because of the litigious climate we live in, companies cannot do things that are normal anymore. Of course GM could have released the cars to the owners and relinqushed all responsibility, but that is meaningless nowadays. Here are some of the things that would have happened:
- The batteries would have eventually worn out and some of them would have sued GM for a free replacement.
- One of them would have gotten into an accident and some EMT person would have been electrocuted by the hundreds of volts running through the wrecked chassis. His family would have sued.
- The lithium, lead, cadmium, mercury, you name it, in use in these experimental vehicles would have leaked out over time. All manner of ailments related or totally unrelated to the leaks would have been blamed on GM.
Who killed the electric car? The market place who abhored the concept. Who killed those prototypes? The lack of common sense in our judicial system brought about by the millions of Americans who have been voting morons, criminals, childish dreamers, and communists in office for decades.
Where would our nation be without the road infrastructure built by government? or the pony express? Or NASA? Or the technological achievements produced as a result of military funding? Or university research?
There is a proper role for government. It includes defining the roles of the marketplace. It also includes building large infrastructure, funding primary research, and funding long term strategic initiatives that are not profitable short term and therefore of no interest to the financial markets.
Heck it would probably be faster to bike in China today.
Pretty much......if you can stand to breathe uncontrolled exhaust fumes...........
We're doomed!
"We're doomed!"
I meant "Rules" not "roles". Those rules include prosecuting fraud, civil procedures to right wrongs, etc. They are the rules, the legal framework, that we all play by. And are absolutely necessary to any civilized society.
The reason the military is in the hands of the government is a constitutional requirement for them to provide for the common defense. What are you saying we should spend a trillion dollars on global warming remedies, because surely we will have some technological benefit at the end of it all?
The pony express is a REALLY bad example. Not only is the USPS a sorry example of government efficiency but the Pony Express was a private enterprise.
University research? Really? However did Universities survive before the government got involved? You know what I think of when I think of government sponsored stuff? Piss Christ in the arts and Global Warming research at NASA and East Anglia.
That's why I want you busybodies to stop making rules. You make one slight typo or mistake in judgement and BOOM! The pleasure boat industry is bankrupt and moving to Europe. ;-)
Joking aside though, prosecuting crime and fraud is a FAR CRY from mandating what alternative technologies companies should pre-design or have ready to produce, in case of an oil crisis!
The legal framework we all live by is a societal requirement and is not limited to the marketplace.
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