Posted on 02/26/2010 12:26:40 AM PST by greeneyes
Prosecutors on Tuesday interrogated 51 Turkish military commanders, including former air force and navy chiefs, over alleged plans to destabilize the country by blowing up mosques to trigger a coup and topple the Islamic-rooted government.
Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/02/23/turkey-coup-commanders.html#ixzz0gd1zR6R6
(Excerpt) Read more at cbc.ca ...
Turkey has a history of its military overthrowing elected governments .
There was three coups in Turkey:1960,1971 and 1980
As the government continues to run into the arms of Iran and Syria, expect more terrorism on Turkish soil as a result. The government will be fanning the flames of Islamic terrorism even if secular movements are plotting to terrorize houses of worship. If there are unhappy military it is also because there are unhappy secular and industrial sectors that want more transparency, less religion and greater integration with Europe — and movement away from the warring nations of the Mid-East.
Those coups are what has kept Turkey tied to secular government instead of becoming like the Taliban.
I agree
I agree
Yes, I had read that before. Also had read that the military has always kind of guarded a more secular stance of government.
I figured a coup would eventually happen when Islam gained more control.
Its a saftey valve.
Exactly so. Thats one reason why I personally favor bringing Turkey into the EU.
All bringing Turkey into the EU will do is bring an overtly Islamist presence into the EU. Turkey is going to fall to sharia, and I think Obama will encourage this. In fact, he probably already has - I’m sure this alleged military plot was probably “discovered” by US sources in order to provide the Turkish Islamists with a sort of Reichstag Fire moment.
So letting Turkey into the EU would mean bringing in a teetering, massively unstable country which will very soon become a leading proponent of Islamicization. I’m not sure this is what the EU needs right now.
I read this wrong. I thought Turkey arrested them for plotting soup.
Interrogating eh, I wonder if they are using any “enhanced interrogation” techniques.
>>Those coups are what has kept Turkey tied to secular government instead of becoming like the Taliban.
Precisely so.
Pournelle has addressed this several times. Here’s a good short essay that briefly touches on the formation of modern Turkey by Kemal Ataturk, and how his forced modernization still affects actions being taken today. This from 2007, so what is going on now has been percolating for a good while.
The Crisis in Turkey
http://jerrypournelle.com/archives2/archives2view/view465.html#Turkey
Another more recent commentary by Pournelle on the issue of Turkey’s Kemalists vs. Islamists, with some very good regional geopolitical analysis. You will see that he does not have much good to say about Carter and the State Dept.
Crisis in Turkey (7/2008)
http://www.jerrypournelle.com/view/2008/Q3/view528.html#Turkey
I will comment that Pournelle is the *only* commentator who was against invading Iraq from before the invasion that I respect. Don’t stop reading because you think he’s not a conservative; his credentials are solid.
One could say the same for the United States, these days...
were they coups or the military upholding the turkish commitment to a secular government...
watch your semantics and do not be spun into believing that the coups were good or the military bad.
teeman
hopefully the end is near.
Britain, France and Germany are already Muslim countries and they run the EU. What’s the diff?
except it is not the military planing the coup...it is 2 of the branches of govt....
let see what happens when congress ‘flips’, hopefully in the 2010 elections
I check his website regularly. He had a very logical and substantiated reason for opposing both gulf wars.
Very interesting essays. Thanks for the links!
I have heard of chicken coups but never turkey coups! lol
We already HAVE an overtly islamist presence in the EU. We also have teetering massively unstable countries (eg Greece).
On the other hand, bringing Turkey in might forestall an islamist takeover of that nation. I dont think Turkey will fall to Sharia, certainly the chances of it doing so will be dramatically reduced if it is bound tighter to Europe than it is to the ME.
Jerry Pournelle gets it and gets history - There will be War.
Yep. The Iranian Islamic revolutionaries learned that lesson before the ousting the Shaw. This is why all the real military power is consolidated in the forces of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard. The regular Army is bigger, but the IRG has all the real firepower.
Was in Izmir, Turkey, during the 1980 coup. The only people allowed on the road were Turkish soldiers and the ones from NATO.
The coup was on a Sunday. When I drove to the NATO base Monday morning there were no people and motor vehicles on the streets.
The best part was no congested traffic.
I’ve been reading him for 30 years, going back to his Byte magazine column days. I try to read just about everything he writes. Like his fiction, too.
THAT IS REALLY FUNNY! THEY ARE ONE AND THE SAME AND THESE SHOW TRIALS ARE FOR GULLIBLE WESTERNERS ONLY.
Mustafa kemal was the first role model for 20th century GENOCIDE in the 20th century. Hitler learned how to destroy as many people as possible in the shortest time by following kemal’s procedures.
4 million Christians perished under kemal and his muzzzie boys.
Stop believing the parastate of Turkey lies. Stop being so gullible and practitioners of wishful thinking—that there is such a creature as a “secular” Muslims -—LOL — an impossibility.
Turkey has a history of getting away with genocide whether it's by its military or its caliphs or its general muslim population.
Enough already - it's time for this rogue parastate to be torn asunder-— the descendants of the victims - some victims still alive - demand restitution for their properties and lands stolen by Turk Muslims.
LOL. I never heard of Turkey coup either.LOL
Nah. Enhanced interrogaion is just baby stuff to the Turks.
“4 million Christians perished under kemal and his muzzzie boys.” I believe you might be referring to the Armenians?
I’ve never understood why that happened, but I do know that Kemal HAD to kill almost every zealot and imam. You don’t ban the veil and polygamy, change the alphabet, change the curriculum from madrases to Western Civilization, let woman vote and attend university, without killing people who’s minds will never change.
Just got back from there and it is booming economically, even without oil, thanks to the great commander Kemal Attaturk.
I’m well aware of the Armenian Genocide.
There doesn’t seem to have been anything uniquely Islamic about it. See Stalin, Joseph, and Pot, Pol, among others.
Just because I recognize what the Ataturk did to attempt to secularize Turkey doesn’t mean I have to like the guy overall.
“it’s time for this rogue parastate to be torn asunder-— the descendants of the victims - some victims still alive - demand restitution for their properties and lands stolen by Turk Muslims.”
What you are proving is that the Ottoman sultans were smart to kill or sell 99% into slavery when they conquered. Nobody left to complain or even continue to procreate. Be grateful some you know survived and peace was accomplished in their lifetime by strangling Islam.
If the Turkish General Staff wants a Coup d’ etat, it is going to happen, they will be the ones doing the arresting.
Since Obama is pro Islam, the civilian government will be given a heads up on troop movements and communications intercepted.
Well, I am sending best wishes to the general staff then.
thanks to the great commander Kemal Attaturk.
That is sick. That is depraved.
That’s NO DIFFERENT from calling Hitler a great commander or stalin ...
Henry Morgenthau, American Ambassador stationed in Constantinople at the time said it best perhaps - he describes the savage Young Turk officers (Kemal’s thugs) and the Turkish population in general:
“Turkey resorts to an act of a barbarous Asiatic state; she has destroyed the Armenians to such an extent that they will not be able to manifest themselves as a political force for a considerable period. A horrible act, certainly, an act of political despair, shameful in its details, but still a piece of political history, in the Asiatic manner.”
He continues:
“This wild horde swept from the plains of Central Asia and, like a whirlwind, overwhelmed the nations of Mesopotamia and Asia Minor; it conquered Egypt, Arabia, and practically all of northern Africa and then poured into Europe, crushed the Balkan nations, occupied a large part of Hungary, and even established the outposts of the Ottoman Empire in the southern part of Russia...They were lacking in what we may call the fundamentals of a civilized community.”
They are still there causing problems for all civilized Christian people in the region and now Europe again
If you know anything about the islamic cultists you know that they do not necessarily kill all their victims - when they need them to serve as dhimmis or captured converted soldiers or slaves.
What Kemal mustafa the pedophile did was heinous even by turk standards-—he unleashed the forces of hell in order to completely wipe out all traces of Christianity in asia minor - Assyrians, Hellenes, and Armenians. He did this in the name of nation building—but he used muslim fanaticism and ferociousness to accomplish it.
Of course why would you or anyone “like” a monster like mustafa kemal who was described thusly by George Horton - the US Consul General at Smyrna at the time early 1920s:
“it is beyond any doubt that Kemal was a homosexual and pedophile based on historical evidence”
Horton
And yet this nation continues to support Turkey - a genocidal parastate an ally of Iran - which has repeatedly backstabbed this country’s interets in the region.
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eleni121: That is sick. That is depraved.
Eleni, Roosevelt came up with the saying "they may be thugs but they are our thugs..." Unfortunately we have had our share of thugs who, by their strategic position served a useful role as our "friends" (not out of love but out of opportunism of course), and Turkey is no exception.
It was our luck that Turks hated Russia more than the west, knowing how important they are in their geographic position. Turks know whose behind to kiss all too well, and how to butter up a prospective protagonist.
They made sure they are protected to the max. Turkey is the only Muslim country that has a defense pact with Israel and is a vital source of oil supply for Israel.
So, even when Turkey refused to allow American troops to cross its territory to launch a northern offensive during the Iraq invasion, we did nothing. Turkey is immune, just as Saudi Arabia is, and other thug countries whose thuggery is of our vital interest.
For these reasons, we will publicly always paint Turks as the "good" guys, even though they have been and will always be thugs. They may be thugs, but they are, after all, our thus.
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