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For those who, like myself, appreciate Kipling.
1 posted on 03/01/2010 7:55:39 AM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

One thing India has is diversity.


2 posted on 03/01/2010 8:07:44 AM PST by swain_forkbeard (Rationality may not be sufficient, but it is necessary.)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

The west had nothing in common with Islam. Why would anyone exect Muslims to understand Kipling. Who cares if they do? Their criticism of anything western is perfectly irrelevant.


3 posted on 03/01/2010 8:11:52 AM PST by DManA
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

Thanks — this was good — took me back to college when I got into trouble for interpreting “the White Man’s Burden” along similar lines.


4 posted on 03/01/2010 8:13:46 AM PST by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

Unless I’m confused, Said (the main critic the author is defending against) does not present a specifically Muslim critique of Kipling.

He instead presents an essentially leftist critique, based on Leninist anti-imperialism, of what he popularized referring to as “Orientalism.”

An Islamist or truly Muslim critique would be made on quite different grounds.

BTW, I enjoyed the article, but can’t absolve Kipling of racism quite as thoroughly as the author. Kipling wrote the most appalling things at times. While he is certainly not the white supremacist cartoon he is generally seen as, his attitudes are close enough to it to be unacceptable in polite society today. Even mine.

Kipling is much more complex than a short essay can really discuss.


5 posted on 03/01/2010 8:20:28 AM PST by Sherman Logan (Never confuse schooling with education.)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Kipling's penultimate stanza ends explicitly with the judgment of the colonised on the colonisers: 'The silent, sullen peoples / Shall weigh your Gods and you.' But Kipling waits until the last line of the poem to spring his surprise—a surprise marked by an exclamation mark. There he makes it clear that, in the end, the judgment of the colonised on the colonisers will be the judgment of equals, 'the judgment of your peers.' The aim, then, is not subjection and exploitation in perpetuity, but 'Freedom' with a capital 'F' and elevation to equality.”

He's absolutely right, and I missed that. The poem is more brilliant than I thought. But it's strong stuff—only safe for those who believe that truth exists.

Meanwhile, speaking of imperialists, if everyone's so special that no people can write about another, what was a @#$%&* Egyptian like Said doing pontificating about Indians? (Oh, I see, as a Marxist who thinks he is above it all.)

6 posted on 03/01/2010 8:27:30 AM PST by SamuraiScot
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

I used to think Kipling was a prophet for his poem “Gods of the Copybook Headings.” Then I listened to “Liberal Fascism” and realized he was simply describing what was happening back then; it only sounded prophetic because the Progressive/Fascists have been pursuing the same objectives with amazing consistency since before the beginning of the 20th Century.


7 posted on 03/01/2010 8:29:52 AM PST by Little Ray (The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
I am reminded of a reply to Kipling during America's attempt to pacify a reluctant Filipino people.

We took up the White Man's burden

Of ebony and brown.

Now can you tells us,Rudyard

How may we put it down?

8 posted on 03/01/2010 8:29:57 AM PST by xkaydet65
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

Mastering all the nuances of caste, creed and etiquette may make for a good novel, but a good cigar is a smoke.


9 posted on 03/01/2010 10:27:30 AM PST by caveat emptor
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