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Ford to build its own diesel engines
Oakland Press ^ | 3-11-10 | JOSEPH SZCZESNY

Posted on 03/11/2010 8:03:09 PM PST by smokingfrog

Ford Motor Co. is hoping to keep its product revolution rolling by introducing for the first time its own diesel engine into the heavy-duty pickup truck segment.

The new diesel engine, powering the new F-Series Super Duty truck, resulted from a development program that began as Ford’s longtime relationship with Navistar broke down amid recriminations and lawsuits over pricing, specifications, quality standards and warranty costs.

Navistar had supplied Ford with the big-diesel engines used in the heavy-duty pickup trucks for more than two decades.

Ford elected almost three years ago to build its own diesel engine for its North American trucks, which are used extensively in construction, farming and ranching. Ford has declined to say how much it spent on the new heavy-duty F-150 and the new engines.

“It was a real gamble for us,” said one Ford official who was familiar with the project.

It was also in keeping with Ford’s ongoing effort to develop vehicles that will stand up to the best cars and trucks in each segment in which the company competes.

Ford already owned the rights to the “Power Stroke” name used on the Navistar engine, and it brought in engineers from its European operations to work on the project alongside engineers in the U.S. familiar with diesel engines.

Chris Brewer, the chief engineer for the heavy-duty truck, said the changes are already paying dividends. By bringing the production of the diesel engine inhouse, Ford was able to hold the line on prices.

In addition, the new Ford-built diesel engine delivers best-in-class fuel economy and towing capability. Indeed, recent tests showed heavy-duty trucks carrying 1,000 pounds, getting better than 26 miles per gallon in fuel-economy-challenges staged by Ford, with some drivers getting 34 miles per gallon, Ford officials said.

(Excerpt) Read more at theoaklandpress.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: automakers; diesel; fordmotor; powerstroke; superduty
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1 posted on 03/11/2010 8:03:09 PM PST by smokingfrog
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To: smokingfrog

This was announced many, many, many months ago.


2 posted on 03/11/2010 8:04:59 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Red Badger

diesel ping


3 posted on 03/11/2010 8:05:26 PM PST by smokingfrog (You can't ignore your boss and expect to keep your job... WWW.filipthishouse2010.com)
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To: smokingfrog

When they gonna build a nice diesel for the average car/SUV?


4 posted on 03/11/2010 8:08:50 PM PST by mylife (Opinions...$1 Halfbaked...50c)
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To: Spktyr

Yes, it was. I’ll give the Ford engine a couple of years of real world testing before I pass judgment. From what I have read, the 7.3L was a great workhorse and the 6.0L that replaced it showed promise but has been plagued by electronic problems and bad fuel injectors.


5 posted on 03/11/2010 8:09:28 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Truth - Reality through the eyes of God.)
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To: Spktyr

Yes, it was. I’ll give the Ford engine a couple of years of real world testing before I pass judgment. From what I have read, the 7.3L was a great workhorse and the 6.0L that replaced it showed promise but has been plagued by electronic problems and bad fuel injectors.


6 posted on 03/11/2010 8:09:44 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Truth - Reality through the eyes of God.)
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To: Spktyr

Well, it’s news to me!


7 posted on 03/11/2010 8:10:24 PM PST by smokingfrog (You can't ignore your boss and expect to keep your job... WWW.filipthishouse2010.com)
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To: smokingfrog
Why doesn't Ford offer diesel cars in this country? They sell them in Europe....lots of them,in fact.I'd rather buy an American diesel and not be forced to buy German.
8 posted on 03/11/2010 8:14:07 PM PST by Gay State Conservative (Host The Beer Summit-->Win The Nobel Peace Prize!)
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To: smokingfrog; Red Badger

Dear Ford.....

Produce a Ford 350 with a compound turbo cummins 5.9L and a allison transmission and I will buy one !

If you don’t I will build one for myself........:o)


9 posted on 03/11/2010 8:15:22 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: Gay State Conservative

They’re illegal in CA and sales numbers for diesel cars just don’t really add up in the US, despite people claiming they’d pay any price for one.

Strangely, the state that buys the most diesel cars is... Texas.


10 posted on 03/11/2010 8:17:37 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: smokingfrog

Inline sixes are better.


11 posted on 03/11/2010 8:20:52 PM PST by mamelukesabre (Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum (If you want peace prepare for war))
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To: Spktyr
They’re illegal in CA and sales numbers for diesel cars just don’t really add up in the US...

I own a (German made) diesel that's legal in all 50 states.If the Germans can do it,Ford and GM can.And while it's true that diesel sales here are weak that could very well change (gradually,perhaps) when Americans discover that diesels are no longer slow,noisy of smokey...and that it's easy to find one (even sporty ones) that get 40+ mpg on the highway.

12 posted on 03/11/2010 8:25:26 PM PST by Gay State Conservative (Host The Beer Summit-->Win The Nobel Peace Prize!)
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To: Gay State Conservative
The big problem is that to make Ford's passenger car diesel engines US-legal, it would require some quite expensive diesel exhaust emission controls to get the engine to EPA Tier 2 Bin 5 certification. Mind you, I'd like to see a 2011 Ford Fiesta with the Duratorq 1.6-liter 108 bhp turbodiesel getting around 50 mpg in highway driving!
13 posted on 03/11/2010 8:26:30 PM PST by RayChuang88 (FairTax: America's economic cure)
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To: Spktyr

Why strange? Makes perfect sense to me.


14 posted on 03/11/2010 8:27:01 PM PST by BenKenobi (And into this Ring he poured his cruelty, his malice and his will to dominate all life.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

The 7.3, 6.0 and 6.5 were all sourced from International. The 7.3 was just installed straight up with little to no Ford-specific mods, and it was a great motor.

The 6.0 is where it all went wrong. In order to compete with the then-new 600lb/ft 5.9L Cummins engine, Ford took the 6.0, stripped most of the International engine controls and injectors off it, fitted their own equivalents, tuned the hell out of it, and kicked it out the door with similar power numbers.

Unfortunately, they didn’t do their homework and all the Ford-sourced bits ended up being pretty much a nightmare. Ford blamed International, who pointed the finger (properly) back at Ford. The same 6.0 engine, when used in box trucks and similar vehicles with the International controls and fuelling, didn’t have any problems. The 6.5 was a similar story, though not nearly as bad.


15 posted on 03/11/2010 8:27:18 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

slow,noisy of smokey = slow,noisy or smokey


16 posted on 03/11/2010 8:28:26 PM PST by Gay State Conservative (Host The Beer Summit-->Win The Nobel Peace Prize!)
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To: Gay State Conservative

What year is it? Because it was only very recently that that became legal again.

Also, the California-legal current diesels require you to replace the Bluetec fluid at regular intervals - in other words, you have to refill your car with very expensive sheep urine or your car becomes illegal.


17 posted on 03/11/2010 8:29:24 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr
What year is it? Because it was only very recently that that became legal again.

'09

Also, the California-legal current diesels require you to replace the Bluetec fluid at regular intervals..

Not entirely true.Several of the diesels currently being sold here require diesel exhaust fluid but both VW and Audi sell at least one model (same engine,I believe) that doesn't require it.

18 posted on 03/11/2010 8:33:30 PM PST by Gay State Conservative (Host The Beer Summit-->Win The Nobel Peace Prize!)
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To: Gay State Conservative

Ha Ha! LOLOLO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPc8GKCYyJQ&NR=1


19 posted on 03/11/2010 8:36:50 PM PST by US_MilitaryRules (Become a monthly donor or FR won't be here for you!)
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To: Squantos
I don't know if Dodge has an exclusive contract with Cummins, but if Ford had the Cummins with either the 6 speed or the Allison that would be a winner.

In the meantime you can talk to these guys

20 posted on 03/11/2010 8:44:23 PM PST by Regulator (Welcome to Zimbabwe! Now hand over your property....)
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To: smokingfrog

That is impressive! go Ford.


21 posted on 03/11/2010 8:46:40 PM PST by Cheetahcat (Zero the Wright kind of Racist! We are in a state of War with Democrats)
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To: smokingfrog

The whole Navistar/Ford dispute comes down to a “simple error” on one side.

Navistar developed a fuel map that was “right on the edge” of the metallurgy and design of their engine. They maximized power and economy without overstressing any component in the engine.

Ford was told to leave this fuel mapping alone, it was wholly outside their experience and WOULD prove expensive if messed with.

Ford altered the fuel map.

Engines with the altered (by Ford) fuel map failed, engines left alone with the Navistar fuel map did NOT fail.

Ford blamed Navistar.

The fact that Ford owns Cummins and needed ANY excuse to get out of its contracts with Navistar AND Chrysler (pretty much taken care of by the illegal takeover) couldn’t have ANYTHING to do with this, could it?

You’ll see Cummins diesels with the “Powerstroke” label attached and on the valve cover(s) rather than the Cummins name. Parts will be interchangeable, but only AFTER the warranty runs out...

The sad thing is, I have been a fan of both Ford and International since the 1960’s. I currently drive 2 Fords and have 2 IHC’s “in process” right now!

This whole dispute is all due to pencil pushers, I’m sure.


22 posted on 03/11/2010 8:59:56 PM PST by Don W (I only keep certain folks' numbers in my 'phone so I know NOT to answer when they call)
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To: mylife
When they gonna build a nice diesel for the average car/SUV?

Yeah, and I want one for my lawn mower, too. Get going Ford!

23 posted on 03/11/2010 9:01:12 PM PST by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government)
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To: Mind-numbed Robot

Why is diesel so held back? I was great when it was invented and it’s way better now.


24 posted on 03/11/2010 9:04:04 PM PST by mylife (Opinions...$1 Halfbaked...50c)
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To: mylife

Gasoline is too cheap. If we had $8 gal gas like in europe, there would be plenty of diesels here.


25 posted on 03/11/2010 9:15:38 PM PST by smokingfrog (You can't ignore your boss and expect to keep your job... WWW.filipthishouse2010.com)
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To: Regulator

Agree 100 % Not sure what Chrysler Dodge has in mind for their truck engines cummins or not in the future but IF I were to buy new today....big if, ...... I would only buy a custom build of a used vehicle and customize it with a private builder .

Older used or classic era vehicle w/ new drive train, new paint and upolstry etc is IMO only way to go these days ......

Stay safe !


26 posted on 03/11/2010 9:16:04 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: smokingfrog

What I see them doing is working up the price of diesel and gasoline to get us to buy “green”


27 posted on 03/11/2010 9:20:13 PM PST by mylife (Opinions...$1 Halfbaked...50c)
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To: Gay State Conservative
Why doesn't Ford offer diesel cars in this country? They sell them in Europe....lots of them,in fact.I'd rather buy an American diesel and not be forced to buy German.

Bill Clinton's EPA caused us to lose 5 + years of Diesel cars in the US.

After Katrina, when gas went over 4 dollars, the big 3 could have flooded us with Diesel cars... but they all would have been Illegal a year later.

Liberals like to blame Corporations for stopping electric cars, but government and junk science is the only reason we aren't driving 30 mpg SUV's and 45 mpg sedan's today.

28 posted on 03/11/2010 9:31:45 PM PST by UNGN (I've been here since '98 but had nothing to say until now)
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To: Regulator
I don't know if Dodge has an exclusive contract with Cummins, but if Ford had the Cummins with either the 6 speed or the Allison that would be a winner.

Yes, and Allison is now free of its former GM entanglement. I do see GM heavy-duty pickups with "Allison Transmission" badges, so there might be an exclusive contract there, too.

Well, no matter - Ford is partnered with Getrag.

29 posted on 03/11/2010 9:32:34 PM PST by Charles Martel ("Endeavor to persevere...")
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To: mylife

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2462934/posts


30 posted on 03/11/2010 9:33:11 PM PST by smokingfrog (You can't ignore your boss and expect to keep your job... WWW.filipthishouse2010.com)
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To: Spktyr

Didn’t this finger pointing take place about the same time the Ferd Exploders were turning over and Ferd were blaming it on their nearly 100 year supplier of tires, Firestone? What stellar ethics. As I recall the company was run by a brit a the time wasn’t it?


31 posted on 03/11/2010 9:53:08 PM PST by Sequoyah101 (Half of the population is below average)
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To: Sequoyah101

Nope, Australian of Lebanese extraction.

Most famous for promoting ‘diversity uber alles’.


32 posted on 03/11/2010 10:04:29 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: smokingfrog
Indeed, recent tests showed heavy-duty trucks carrying 1,000 pounds, getting better than 26 miles per gallon in fuel-economy-challenges staged by Ford, with some drivers getting 34 miles per gallon, Ford officials said.

I think the author is confused. First he keeps referring to the F-150, which currently has no diesel available. Ford was developing a small diesel (4.4L?) for the F-150 but last I heard they weren't going to go with it just yet. So that leaves us with the F-250, F-350, etc.

I have a hard time believing that the new 6.7L diesel in a 6,000lb vehicle carrying 1,000lb of cargo can get 26mpg let alone 34mpg. If they do, I'll be first in line :-)

I have a 2008 F-250 with the 6.4L. Haven't had any problems with it but the mileage is atrocious, even for a big truck.

33 posted on 03/11/2010 10:05:26 PM PST by VeniVidiVici (Democrats and Pelosi. The party of thieves, liars and tax cheats)
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To: Sequoyah101

Or, rather, Nasser was there to start this off, Bill Ford was left holding the bag on the diesels.

Neither was particularly good at the job, but Bill Ford gets everlasting credit for realizing he was in over his head and hiring in Alan Mullaly.


34 posted on 03/11/2010 10:06:05 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: VeniVidiVici

The F-150 diesel is on hold pending a more favorable fuel price climate (gas will have to go up in price.) The new F-150 was developed with that engine in mind, so it would be a fast transition if needed.

The 2010 F250 will actually get 26mpg highway.


35 posted on 03/11/2010 10:10:30 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Don W

Ford does not own Cummins. In fact, Cummins supplies Dodge diesels.


36 posted on 03/12/2010 1:19:04 AM PST by packrat35 (Democrat Healthcare is a 9-11 Attack on the Constitution)
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To: Spktyr
Also, the California-legal current diesels require you to replace the Bluetec fluid at regular intervals - in other words, you have to refill your car with very expensive sheep urine or your car becomes illegal.

That is pretty much a non-issue, as the urea tanks are usually big enough to last the interval between services. So when you do an oil change, you do an urea solution change as well. Bulk prices for AdBlue urea solution are approx. $2 per gallon which comes down to about $1 per thousand miles.

Yes, there have been rip-offs, but when you pay $40 for a gallon of AdBlue, that's because of a criminal repair shop, not because of the technology itself.
37 posted on 03/12/2010 4:05:13 AM PST by wolf78 (Inflation is a form of taxation, too. Cranky Libertarian - equal opportunity offender.)
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To: smokingfrog

Fuel mileage numbers are interesting and encouraging.

I have an ‘09 GMC with a Duramax and 6 speed Allison automatic. I just finished some modifications to it over the weekend. I drove 18 miles to work this very morning and the fuel economy for the run was 26.1 MPG from door to door. I was very easy on the go pedal. Kept boost at 0 and EGT’s below 600 (pre-turbo) the entire drive.

Before modification, stock as it were, I averaged 15.6 MPG on the same run, same driving style.


38 posted on 03/12/2010 4:16:13 AM PST by IamConservative (Liberty is all a good man needs to succeed.)
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To: Squantos

Is it true the Ford trucks (gasoline) use GM/Chev transmissions ?


39 posted on 03/12/2010 4:36:14 AM PST by Para-Ord.45
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To: Sequoyah101

“and Ferd were blaming it on their nearly 100 year supplier of tires,”

And the whole “story” was brought about by a driver that fell asleep and crashed the vehicle, but let’s not let facts get in the way of a good class action lawsuit.


40 posted on 03/12/2010 4:38:28 AM PST by bitterohiogunclinger (America held hostage - day 393)
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To: smokingfrog; sully777; vigl; Cagey; Abathar; A. Patriot; B Knotts; getsoutalive; muleskinner; ...

Rest In Peace, old friend, your work is finished.....

If you want ON or OFF the DIESEL ”KnOcK” LIST just FReepmail me.....

This is a fairly HIGH VOLUME ping list on some days.....

41 posted on 03/12/2010 5:18:27 AM PST by Red Badger (Education makes people easy to lead, difficult to drive; easy to govern, but impossible to enslave.)
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To: Spktyr

More specifically, Ford tried to make the HEUI injection system do something it wasn’t designed to do - split shot injection.

They were trying to compete with the quietness of the Chevy/Isuzu diesel.

Navistar told Ford that the HEUI injection system wasn’t meant for split-shot injection, but Ford thought they knew better and we got the horrible 6.0.

The 6.0L diesel fiasco cost both Ford and Navistar dearly - so much so that I’d suspect that when Ford announced that they were going to “do their own diesel,” there were many smiles and chuckles inside Navistar - something akin to “Well now, we’ll get to see how Ford does when they own the whole problem and can’t point fingers...”

For all of that, tho, I vastly prefer my 7.3L. It simply has better low-speed performance, especially with a manual transmission.


42 posted on 03/12/2010 5:20:30 AM PST by NVDave
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To: Squantos

“”Produce a Ford 350 with a compound turbo cummins 5.9L and a allison transmission and I will buy one !””

http://www.srdieselconcepts.com/

I helped program some of the parts they needed to do just that.


43 posted on 03/12/2010 5:48:12 AM PST by Abathar (Proudly posting without reading the article carefully since 2004)
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To: Abathar
“”Produce a Ford 350 with a compound turbo cummins 5.9L and a allison transmission and I will buy one !””

http://www.srdieselconcepts.com/

I helped program some of the parts they needed to do just that.

Something tells me that truck wouldn't meet the EPA particulate emissions test...


44 posted on 03/12/2010 6:06:02 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: smokingfrog

You just can’t beat an inline 6 cyl Cummins.

6.0 Power Strokes (Power Jokes as my husband affectionately refers to them) are junk. The older 7.3’s were way more dependable.

We’re faithful fans of truck pulling and the only Fords I’ve seen do well, place or win all have Cummins engines swapped in them...usually die-hard Ford guys with a lot of extra money to spend.

Hubby is only faithful to the Cummins so he will only purchase Dodge trucks. But if Cummins ever ended their contract with Chrysler, he’d go where the engine went.


45 posted on 03/12/2010 6:57:19 AM PST by JenB987 (under God's Spirit she flourishes)
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To: UNGN

the government isn’t interested in gas mileage and efficiency..

“.. the federal government profits approximately .59 cents per gallon through gasoline taxes, 7 ½ times or 750% that of the oil producers themselves and 20% of the price at the pumps. Pay attention here, Washington liberals are attacking oil companies for their 2.5% gross profit margin, while Washington is profiting 20% per gallon....”

http://www.jb-williams.com/4-25-06.htm


46 posted on 03/12/2010 7:09:32 AM PST by mo
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To: Gay State Conservative; tx_eggman
I'd rather buy an American diesel and not be forced to buy German.

I wholeheartedly agree... but I just broke down and bought the German.

Traded in my F-150 King-Ranch (11 mpg gasoline) for the Jetta TDI (45 mpg diesel). It's quite a culture shock, and I wanted to buy a Ford, but they have nothing that competes economically.

I do feel a bit emasculated, though.
47 posted on 03/12/2010 7:24:18 AM PST by SpinnerWebb (mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves)
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To: Spktyr

Cats? Yeah, I have cats! They’re at home eating.

Nothing that a good acetylene torch, some new exhaust piping, and an engine recalibrate wouldn’t take care off. Screw that urea injection crap!


48 posted on 03/12/2010 7:49:41 AM PST by fightinbluhen51 ("MOLON LABE")
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To: Gay State Conservative

All depends on how they do their engine / catalyst “regeneration.” Some engines were to be designed so they didn’t use the urea injection, but would then run at a higher exhaust gas temp to “burn out” the soot in the cat.

Explain to me why, to meet the emissions requirements you degrade fuel efficiency with EGR (which I’d get ride of in a heart beat) and the higher EGRs which means more fuel burned for a diesel since they throttle with the fuel.


49 posted on 03/12/2010 7:52:00 AM PST by fightinbluhen51 ("MOLON LABE")
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To: fightinbluhen51

All you need to know about this..

State and Federal Treasuries “Profit” More from Gasoline Sales than U.S. Oil Industry

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/1139.html


50 posted on 03/12/2010 7:55:05 AM PST by mo
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