Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Long, strange trip (Did the CIA test LSD in the New York City subway system?)
New York Post ^ | Philip Messing

Posted on 03/14/2010 1:28:30 AM PST by nickcarraway

A declassified FBI report from the Baltimore field office dated Aug. 25, 1950 provides some tantalizing support for the claim. "The BW [biological weapon] experiments to be conducted by representatives of the Department of the Army in the New York Subway System in September 1950, have been indefinitely postponed," states the memo, a copy of which the author provided to The Post.

An Olson colleague, Dr. Henry Eigelsbach, confirmed to Albarelli that the LSD subway test did, in fact, occur in November 1950, albeit on a smaller scale than first planned. Little, however, is known about the test — what line, how many people and what happened.

The purported experiment occurred nearly a year before a more infamous August 1951 incident in the small town of Pont St. Esprit, in the south of France, when the citizens were hit by a case of mass insanity.

(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: New York
KEYWORDS: cia; drugs; fbi; lsd; mindcontrol; nyc; subway; usarmy

1 posted on 03/14/2010 1:28:30 AM PST by nickcarraway
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

I think it was tested in the Capital Building in D.C. early last year. Mass insanity ensued.


2 posted on 03/14/2010 1:34:16 AM PST by Rocky (Obama's policy: A thousand points of lies.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway


3 posted on 03/14/2010 1:36:51 AM PST by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

This guy Albarelli is also claiming the CIA dosed dozens of people in France with LSD. Nutty claims about the CIA are still selling books, apparently.


4 posted on 03/14/2010 1:36:58 AM PST by AnotherUnixGeek
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AnotherUnixGeek

I’ve heard too much to simply dismiss such reports as nuttiness.


5 posted on 03/14/2010 1:40:49 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (I am in America but not of America (per bible: am in the world but not of it))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Rocky

I think the Capital Building test has been continually verified by identical concurrent parallel testing at the White House since Jan’09.


6 posted on 03/14/2010 1:45:14 AM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Rocky
Correction: Capitol Building
7 posted on 03/14/2010 1:58:23 AM PST by Rocky (Obama's policy: A thousand points of lies.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Rocky

Based on the money being printed I believe your first spelling is MORE correct, it is the “destruction of capital” building.


8 posted on 03/14/2010 3:06:32 AM PDT by Neidermeyer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
[. . .a more infamous August 1951 incident in the small town of Pont St. Esprit, in the south of France, when the citizens were hit by a case of mass insanity.]

This could result from contamination of the local grain supply by ergot fungus which when consumed by humans results in bizarre behaviors. According to Wikipedia:

[Ergotism is the name for sometimes severe pathological syndromes affecting humans or animals that have ingested ergot alkaloid-containing plant material, such as ergot-contaminated grains. . .Ergot contains ergotamine, which is used to synthesize lysergic acid, an analog of and precursor for synthesis of LSD. . .]

Ergotism was blamed by one historian for the Salem Witch trials but this is a stretch.

If LSD was used as a weapon by the military it likely would be referenced as a “chemical” weapon—a debilitating agent—rather than “biological.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergot

9 posted on 03/14/2010 3:15:28 AM PDT by Brad from Tennessee (A politician can't give you anything he hasn't first stolen from you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rocky

Thanks. I was thinking the same thing, but referenced the previous post thinking I was mistaken, resulting in my mistaken thinking.


10 posted on 03/14/2010 3:18:28 AM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

An LSD aerosol in the subways... I doubt anyone would breath in enough to get high


11 posted on 03/14/2010 3:24:34 AM PDT by dennisw (It all comes 'round again --Fairport)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dennisw
An LSD aerosol in the subways... I doubt anyone would breath in enough to get high

A threshold dose of LSD can be as little as 20 micrograms. That's micrograms, not milligrams.

As to whether the CIA experimented on the US public or not, I have not seen hard evidence, but would not put it past them either. Lots of loose cannons there.

12 posted on 03/14/2010 4:08:54 AM PDT by ARepublicanForAllReasons (Give 'em hell, Sarah!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: ARepublicanForAllReasons
An LSD aerosol in the subways... I doubt anyone would breath in enough to get high

A threshold dose of LSD can be as little as 20 micrograms. That's micrograms, not milligrams.

As to whether the CIA experimented on the US public or not, I have not seen hard evidence, but would not put it past them either. Lots of loose cannons there.

Agreed. A microgram is an incredibilly small abount.

At the time, there was a legitimate red scare. If the Russians had aersolized LSD, you can rest assured they would certainly have tried it. I feel certain the CIA or its counterpart would have tried it also.

Now as far as another major expose and media frenzy on how bad the US was and how many lives it ruined, lawsuits etc. and blame for all the bad things that happened to people who rode the subway from that day on out, please spare me.

13 posted on 03/14/2010 5:25:15 AM PDT by The_Media_never_lie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: ARepublicanForAllReasons

I remember reading in the US code several years back a provision allowing the US govt. to test BW on americans without their consent as long as certain local leaders were notified.

I am a ultra conservative. I have been on FR a long time. Trust me what the CIA and FBI did back in the day under “for the good of the country” would astound you.


14 posted on 03/14/2010 5:35:15 AM PDT by Walkingfeather
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
survivors


15 posted on 03/14/2010 5:39:14 AM PDT by Raycpa
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

This explains the beat poets.


16 posted on 03/14/2010 5:41:08 AM PDT by Oratam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
The purported experiment occurred nearly a year before a more infamous August 1951 incident

...and 19 years before Woodstock, which strangely enough had an endless line of volunteers. Most of whom today don't remember a thing........

17 posted on 03/14/2010 5:55:31 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco (My boomerang won't come back)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Walkingfeather
I remember reading in the US code several years back a provision allowing the US govt. to test BW on americans without their consent as long as certain local leaders were notified.

I'd bet they have a provision for anything and everything.

Back in my student days, when I was a Leftist, I believed the most outrageous things about the CIA. For example, there were rumored to be chambers deep beneath the Pentagon where they tortured student radicals, they dropped deadly chemicals on South American Indians to depopulate the area for (???) who knows why, or cares.

Now that I'm all grown up, I still can't dismiss what human nature can and will do with unchecked power. I do know that some Federal agency ran a brothel in South America, Peru I think, for 'information gathering purposes', LOL. Wish I had a nickel for every dollar wasted by our Federal overseers.

18 posted on 03/14/2010 6:15:23 AM PDT by ARepublicanForAllReasons (Give 'em hell, Sarah!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
This story has been around for over forty years. I believe it.

Long ago, in a different world, I knew a guy who was involved in the experiments of Leary and the other ahole, now Baba Ram Dass, on prisoners at MA's Concord State Prison. Took the Big "D" myself several times when it was still legal and hundreds of times when it was illegal.

Tough stuff for the uninformed and/or uninitiated.

19 posted on 03/14/2010 6:18:15 AM PDT by metesky (My retirement fund is holding steady @ $.05 a can.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ARepublicanForAllReasons

i wish it only cost a nickel for fed. overseers. : )


20 posted on 03/14/2010 6:21:56 AM PDT by Walkingfeather
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

Testing LSD on the subways would be an experiment with no purpose and no valid data.

Anyone who has ridden NYC subways knows that considering the normal behavior, there is no way you could tell that LSD had been introduced


21 posted on 03/14/2010 6:57:53 AM PDT by wildbill (You're just jealous because the Voices talk only to me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dennisw
" I doubt anyone would breath in enough to get high."

BS! No one has to breath it, it's easily absorbed through the skin.

Back in the early days of acid (when it was legal), there was a chemist named Owsley who made it all the time. His pad was very popular place to crash, as the hippies would get off big time just on what they absorbed from sleeping on his floor.

...What's there to live for?
Who needs the peace corps?
Think I'll just DROP OUT
I'll go to Frisco
Buy a wig & sleep
On Owsley's floor ...

FZ 1967

22 posted on 03/14/2010 8:35:34 AM PDT by Slump Tester (What if I'm pregnant Teddy? Errr-ahh -Calm down Mary Jo, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Slump Tester
That's crazy I've never heard of that before!


Pelosi's broken promises exposed...
23 posted on 03/14/2010 8:38:22 AM PDT by ConservativeMan55
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

The first five paragraphs of the article were plucked verbatim from this wikipedia listing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pont-Saint-Esprit


24 posted on 03/14/2010 8:48:20 AM PDT by Rebelbase
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rebelbase

Or was the wiki article taken from this NYPost article?


25 posted on 03/14/2010 8:50:32 AM PDT by Rebelbase
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

I know the free dope gang here will hate this notion but I grew up in it, I was there, I was a late Yippie even...yep...sad to say.

and I believe strongly that the counterculture was a consequence of the rise of LSD use...no doubt whatsoever in my mind

anyone else here who lived it and tripped in the 60s or early 70s feel free to challenge that notion


26 posted on 03/14/2010 8:51:22 AM PDT by wardaddy (women are crazy...girls too)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ConservativeMan55

I can remember talk of hippies putting doses in squirt guns and shooting it on unwary passers by. Haight Ashbury was probably a pretty good place to avoid!


27 posted on 03/14/2010 8:56:24 AM PDT by Slump Tester (What if I'm pregnant Teddy? Errr-ahh -Calm down Mary Jo, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Slump Tester

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/07/12/MNGK0QV7HS1.DTL&hw=owsley&sn=001&sc=1000


28 posted on 03/14/2010 9:08:13 AM PDT by dennisw (It all comes 'round again --Fairport)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

This story has been around for a long, long time and is more or less an accepted fact among within the Bay Area counter-culture.


29 posted on 03/14/2010 10:17:30 AM PDT by GVnana ("Obama is incredibly naive and grossly egotistical." Sarkozy)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

Check out the new movie “Men Who Stare at Goats” and wonder how we managed to get through the Cold War with these jokers guarding the citadel. Then read this:

Acid Dreams is the complete social history of LSD and the counterculture it helped to define in the sixties. Martin Lee and Bruce Shlain’s exhaustively researched and astonishing account-part of it gleaned from secret government files-tells how the CIA became obsessed with LSD as an espionage weapon during the early l950s and launched a massive covert research program, in which countless unwitting citizens were used as guinea pigs. Though the CIA was intent on keeping the drug to itself, it ultimately couldn’t prevent it from spreading into the popular culture; here LSD had a profound impact and helped spawn a political and social upheaval that changed the face of America. From the clandestine operations of the government to the escapades of Timothy Leary, Abbie Hoffman, Ken Kesey and his Merry Pranksters, Allen Ginsberg, and many others, Acid Dreams provides an important and entertaining account that goes to the heart of a turbulent period in our history. “Engaging throughout . . . at once entertaining and disturbing.” - Andrew Weil, M.D., The Nation; “Marvelously detailed . . . loaded with startling revelations.” - Los Angeles Daily News; “An engrossing account of a period . . . when a tiny psychoactive molecule affected almost every aspect of Western life.” - William S. Burroughs; “An important historical synthesis of the spread and effects of a drug that served as a central metaphor for an era.” - John Sayles.


30 posted on 03/14/2010 10:19:47 AM PDT by Yollopoliuhqui (consciousness is a heads up display)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Yollopoliuhqui
“An important historical synthesis of the spread and effects of a drug that served as a central metaphor for an era.” - John Sayles.

If only modern liberal madness would have ended when the vogue of acid trips ebbed. It didn't. Those LSD mad days were scarcely our most foolish ones.

31 posted on 03/14/2010 11:41:17 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (I am in America but not of America (per bible: am in the world but not of it))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: gortklattu; central scrutinizer; uglybiker; Feckless; Colosis; Eric in the Ozarks; CholeraJoe; ...
PING!

It's not actually a thread about Zappa, but there's a link to an interesting story about Owsley.

Thanks Dennisw!

32 posted on 03/14/2010 12:17:20 PM PDT by Slump Tester (What if I'm pregnant Teddy? Errr-ahh -Calm down Mary Jo, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: dennisw

Thanks!


33 posted on 03/14/2010 12:18:58 PM PDT by Slump Tester (What if I'm pregnant Teddy? Errr-ahh -Calm down Mary Jo, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

How do they know it was just the once?


34 posted on 03/14/2010 12:21:17 PM PDT by RichInOC (No! BAD Rich! (What'd I say?))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AnotherUnixGeek; HiTech RedNeck
Nutty claims about the CIA are still selling books, apparently.

Oh sure...

Our government always looks out for our best interest.


35 posted on 03/14/2010 12:26:46 PM PDT by dragnet2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

Oral LSD Dosages
Threshold 20 ug
Light 25 - 75 ug
Common 50 - 150 ug
Strong 150 - 400 ug
Heavy 400 + ug
LD50 (Lethal Dose*) 12,000 ug

Onset : 30 - 120 minutes (usually about 1 hr)
Duration : 6 - 14 hours
Normal After Effects : up to 24 hours

36 posted on 03/14/2010 1:02:02 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Slump Tester
Thanks for the Zappa ping!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MsO1FLYee8(nsfw)...

37 posted on 03/14/2010 1:02:48 PM PDT by real saxophonist (The fact that you play tuba doesn't make you any less lethal. -USMC bandsman in Iraq)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Slump Tester

Quite a character!


38 posted on 03/14/2010 1:16:53 PM PDT by dennisw (It all comes 'round again --Fairport)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Chode
> Normal After Effects : up to 24 hours

Plus the occasional freebie flashback up to 10 years later, typically while giving a Marketing presentation in front of an important customer... :)

39 posted on 03/14/2010 2:04:46 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

I think the CIA was up to its old tricks on 4 November, 2008.


40 posted on 03/14/2010 2:37:51 PM PDT by Erasmus (Lying fallow in preparation for planting season)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson