Posted on 03/14/2010 12:04:10 PM PDT by etraveler13
4 Cases have been decided by the Supreme Court of the United States that define the status of Natural Born Citizen.
(Excerpt) Read more at thepostemail.com ...
http://www.thepostemail.com/2009/10/18/4-supreme-court-cases-define-natural-born-citizen/ Reference links at bottom of page....
Emmerich de Vattel, c/o Online Library of Liberty (Oct. 18, 2009) — The Post & Email has in several articles mentioned that the Supreme Court of the United States has
given the definition of what a “natural born citizen” is. Since being a natural born citizen is an objective
qualification and requirement of office for the U.S. President, it is important for all U.S. Citizens to undertsand what
this term means.
Let’s cut through all the opinion and speculation, all the “he says”, “she says”, fluff, and go right to the
irrefutable, constitutional authority on all terms and phrases mentioned in the U.S. Constitution: the Supreme Court of
the United States.
First, let me note that there are 4 such cases which speak of the notion of “natural born citizenship”.
Each of these cases will cite or apply the definition of this term, as given in a book entitled, The Law of Nations,
written by Emmerich de Vattel, a Swiss-German philosopher of law. In that book, the following definition of a “natural
born citizen” appears, in Book I, Chapter 19, § 212, of the English translation of 1797 (p. 110):
§ 212. Citizens and natives.
The citizens are the members of the civil society: bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its
authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the
country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children
of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. . . .
The French original of 1757, on that same passage read thus:
Les naturels, ou indigenes, sont ceux qui sont nes dans le pays de parents citoyens, . . .
The terms “natives” and “natural born citizens” are obviously English terms; used to render the idea convyed by the
French phrase “les naturels, ou indigenes”: but both refered to the same category of citizen: one born in the country,
of parents who were citizens of that country.
In the political philosophy of Vattel, the term “naturels” refers to citizens who are such by the Law of Nature, that is
by the natural cirumstances of their birth — which they did not choose; the term “indigenes” is from the Latin,
indigenes, which like the English, “indigenous”, means “begotten from within” (inde-genes), as in the phrase “the
indigenous natives are the peoples who have been born and lived there for generations.” Hence the meaning the the term,
“natural born citizen”, or “naturels ou indigenes” is the same: born in the country of two parents who are citizens of
that country.
Vattel did not invent the notion “natural born citizen”; he was merely applying the Law of Nature to questions of
citizenship. In fact the term first appears in a letter of the future Supreme Court Justice, John Jay, to George
Washington during the Constitutional Convention, where the Framers were consulting 3 copies Vattel’s book to complete
their work (according to the testimony of Benjamin Franklin).
Let take a brief look, now, at each case. For each case I include the link to the full text of the ruling.
The Venus, 12 U.S. 8 Cranch 253 253 (1814) The first was decided in A.D. 1814, at the beginning of the republic, by men who were intimately associated with the
American Revolution. In that year the following men sat on the Supreme Court:
Bushrod Washington, (b. June 5, 1762 — d. Nov. 26, 1829), served Feb. 4, 1799 til Nov. 26, 1829.
John Marshall (b. Sept. 24, 1755 — d. July 6, 1835), served Feb. 4, 1891 til July 6, 1835.
William Johnson (b. Dec. 27, 1771 — d. Aug. 4, 1834), served May 7, 1804, til Aug. 4, 1834.
Henry Brockholst Livingston (b. Nov. 25, 1757 — d. Mar. 18, 1823), served Jan. 20, 1807 til March 18, 1823
Thomas Todd (b. Jan. 23, 1765 — d. Feb. 7, 1826), served May 4, 1807 til Feb. 7, 1826.
Gabriel Duvall (b. Dec. 6, 1752 — d. Mar. 6, 1844), served Nov. 23, 1811 til Jany 14, 1835.
Joseph Story (b. Sept. 18, 1779 — d. Sept. 10, 1845), served Feb. 3, 1812 til Sept. 10, 1845
Nearly all these men either participated in the American Revolution, or their fathers did. Joseph Story’s father took
part in the original Boston Tea Party. Thomas Todd served 6 months in the army against the British; and participated in
5 Constitutional Conventions from 1784-1792. During the Revolutionary War, Henry Brockholst Livingston was a Lieutenant
Colonel in the New York Line and an aide-de-camp to General Benedict Arnold, before the latter’s defection to the
British. William Johnson’s father, mother, and elder brother were revolutionaries, who served as statesman, rebel, or
nurse/assistant to the line troops, respectively. John Marshall was First Lieutenant of the Culpeper Minutement of
Virginia, and then Lieutenant in the Eleventh Virginian Continental Regiment, and a personal friend of General George
Washington; and debated for ratification of the U.S. Constitution by the Virginian General Assembly. Bushrod Washington
was George Washington’s nephew and heir.
Being witnesses and heirs of the Revolution, they understood what the Framers of the Constitution had intended.
The Venus case regarded the question whether the cargo of a merchantman, named the Venus, belonging to an American
citizen, and being shipped from British territory to America during the War of 1812, could be seized and taken as a
prize by an American privateer. But what the case said about citizenship, is what matters here.
WHAT THE VENUS CASE SAYS ON CITIZENSHIP
In the Venus Case, Justice Livingston, who wrote the unanimous decision, quoted the entire §212nd paragraph from the
French edition, using his own English, on p. 12 of the ruling:
Vattel, who, though not very full to this point, is more explicit and more satisfactory on it than any other whose work
has fallen into my hands, says:
“The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its
authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives or indigenes are those born in the country of parents
who are citizens. Society not being able to subsist and to perpetuate itself but by the children of the citizens, those
children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights.
“The inhabitants, as distinguished from citizens, are strangers who are permitted to settle and stay in the country.
Bound by their residence to the society, they are subject to the laws of the state while they reside there, and they are
obliged to defend it…
Shanks v. Dupont, 28 U.S. 3 Pet. 242 242 (1830) In 16 years later the Supreme Court heard the case regarding the dispute over the inheritance received by two daughters
of an American colonist, from South Carolina; one of whom went to England and remained a British subject, the other of
whom remained in South Carolina and became an American citizen. At the beginning of the case, Justice Story, who gave
the ruling, does not cite Vattel per se, but cites the principle of citizenship enshrined in his definition of a
“natural born citizen”:
Ann Scott was born in South Carolina before the American revolution, and her father adhered to the American cause and
remained and was at his death a citizen of South Carolina. There is no dispute that his daughter Ann, at the time of the
Revolution and afterwards, remained in South Carolina until December, 1782. Whether she was of age during this time does
not appear. If she was, then her birth and residence might be deemed to constitute her by election a citizen of South
Carolina. If she was not of age, then she might well be deemed under the circumstances of this case to hold the
citizenship of her father, for children born in a country, continuing while under age in the family of the father,
partake of his national character as a citizen of that country. Her citizenship, then, being prima facie established,
and indeed this is admitted in the pleadings, has it ever been lost, or was it lost before the death of her father, so
that the estate in question was, upon the descent cast, incapable of vesting in her? Upon the facts stated, it appears
to us that it was not lost and that she was capable of taking it at the time of the descent cast.
Minor v. Happersett , 88 U.S. 162 (1875) This case concerned Mrs. Happersett, an original suffragette, who in virtue of the 14th Amendment attempted to register
to vote in the State of Missouri, and was refused because she was not a man. The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court in
that year, wrote the majority opinion, in which he stated:
The Constitution does not in words say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain
that. At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted
that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also.
These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and
include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents.
United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898) In this case, Wong Kim Ark, the son of 2 resident Chinese aliens, claimed U.S. Citizenship and was vindicated by the
court on the basis of the 14th Amendment. In this case the Justice Gray gave the opinion of the court. On p. 168-9 of
the record, He cites approvingly the decision in Minor vs. Happersett:
At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that
all children, born in a country of parents who were its citizens, became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also.
These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners.
On the basis of the 14th Amendment, however, the majority opinion coined a new definition for “native citizen”, as
anyone who was born in the U.S.A., under the jurisdiction of the United States. The Court gave a novel interpretation
to jurisdiction, and thus extended citizenship to all born in the country (excepting those born of ambassadors and
foreign armies etc.); but it did not extend the meaning of the term “natural born citizen.”
CONCLUSION Finally it should be noted, that to define a term is to indicate the category or class of things which it signifies. In
this sense, the Supreme Court of the United States has never applied the term “natural born citizen” to any other
category than “those born in the country of parents who are citizens thereof”.
Hence every U.S. Citizen must accept this definition or categorical designation, and fulfil his constitutional duties
accordingly. No member of Congress, no judge of the Federal Judiciary, no elected or appointed official in Federal or
State government has the right to use any other definition; and if he does, he is acting unlawfully, because
unconstitutionally.
References:
About Emer de Vattel http://oll.libertyfund.org/index.php?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php%3Fperson=3987&Itemid=28
The law of Nations - Vattel http://books.google.com/books?id=z8b8rrzRc7AC&dq=Emmerich+de+Vattel+The+Law+of+Nations&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=
it&ei=tdfaSsH1HIuk4Qbb6pn1Bg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CBcQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=&f=false
SCOTUS before 1900 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Justices_of_the_Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States#Justices_appointed_before_1900
Venus Case http://supreme.justia.com/us/12/253/case.html
Shanks vs. Dupont http://supreme.justia.com/us/28/242/case.html
Minor v. Happersett , 88 U.S. 162 (1875) http://supreme.justia.com/us/88/162/case.html#162
United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898) http://supreme.justia.com/us/169/649/case.html#649
Geez... how about the one sentence version?
Which Supreme Court case establishes that we shouldn’t question the entire background of a candidate or an office holder, especially when there is overwhelming circumstantial evidence suggesting a coverup of his background?
Your begining attaches to the original article. You don’t have to cut and paste the ENTIRE article as well
Where's the Birth Certificate?
If you have followed the debate on Obama’s qualifications under the constitution of the United States, as a Natural Born Citizen, quite a bit of time has been spent on the seeming inablility of anyone to define what Natural Born Citizen means. Many have argued Vattels definition, but none that I have read showed actual Supreme Court decisions that quantify, in this case, 4 times, not only who, but why, and how SCOTUS defines NBC.
IMO this clearly shows that Obama is NOT a NBC by virtue of his Fathers citizenship in another country, and the requirement that Both Parents be citizens of the US for the child to qualify as a candidate for the highest office in the Land.
Many argued that Wong Kim Ark, did this, in fact, it only made him a citizen, not a Natural Born Citizen.
These decisions define who is and who is not a Natural Born Citizen.
IMO, every candidate for POTUS should be completely vetted, and it should be made clear to the voting public.
The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the
country, of parents who are citizens.
English terms; used to render the idea convyed by the
French phrase “les naturels, ou indigenes”: but both refered to the same category of citizen: one born in the country,
of parents who were citizens of that country.
“indigenous”, means “begotten from within” (inde-genes), as in the phrase “the
indigenous natives are the peoples who have been born and lived there for generations.” Hence the meaning the the term,
“natural born citizen”, or “naturels ou indigenes” is the same: born in the country of two parents who are citizens of
that country.
The natives or indigenes are those born in the country of parents who are citizens.
CONCLUSION Finally it should be noted, that to define a term is to indicate the category or class of things which it signifies. In this sense, the Supreme Court of the United States has never applied the term “natural born citizen” to any other category than “those born in the country of parents who are citizens thereof”.
I don’t post origonal articles that often, I did as they instructed.
However, it is always good to be able to cut and past from an article when replying. IF you look on the bottom, I listed the reference links. For some reason the title and the link ran together. But its there to cut and paste if you wish to study it further.
We need to defeat his policies and pass new laws so the next time he can be vetted.
/BC FReeper troll
NBC Ping!
EXACTLY!!!
Considering all the stupid BS we have to wade through with pitbull, devotionals, and loads of other crap - I wilol cut this guy/gal a break. This is a VERY important issue considering and usurper is destroying our economy/socity and bankrupting the nation.
SCOTUS needs to hear a case and I know the whole quo warranto stuff. Just rule that he is not eligible. Get it over with SCOTUS.
Sounds like a pretty good idea.
You are wrong on many levels...
Obama’s father was Obama Sr a kenyan, also a British Protectorate at the time. His stepfather was Indonesian. Neither one was ever a US Citizen.
Mom was not in the US long enough to confer citizenship to him in any Case
He, IMO needs to be removed per the Constitution.
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion as well.
You missed my /BC FReeper troll tag
What does that mean?
It is difficult for me to believe that the founders intended anyone to be president whose father was a british subject and who was born after the revolutionary war.
My impression is that although the Constitution requires American presidents to be NBCs, there is no formal mechanism in place to vet the candidates. In the past, I guess, candidates simply did not run who were not NBCs.
Expecting that kind of self-responsibility from Marxists is no different than expecting the immoral and amoral to have any respect for truth.
I agree, it is obvious to anyone who has studied this issue, or followed these threads. You look at the framers of the Constitution, the references they used (Vattel), and the reason that ONLY the POTUS is required to be an NBC, and its clear IMO
they're the BC trolls who come a long and argue that no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary, NBC has never been defined.
They will tell you that bammies in office and to concentrate on defeating his policies and this issue will go nowhere etc....
One thing is clear. You and I will never be on the USSC. Too simpleminded. LOL.
Meant to add, my post was pure sarcasm, I was mirroring the trolls that will more than likely show up here.
Ping!
The governing law is very simple: It is TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > § 1401
“The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
(b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property;
(c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;
(d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;
(e) a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person;
(f) a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States;
(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person
(A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or
(B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and
(h) a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States.”
IMPORTANT: Natural Born does not mean Native Born.
Natural Born means a citizen at the moment of birth by conditions or parentage and birth, not a persona who was made a citizen by application later, i.e. one who was “naturalized” i.e, made as if Natural
Actually, there are several mechanisms.
1. The DNC or the RNC must vet their candidates. I am sure that Independents or other parties must do the same.
2. Each Secretary of State must vet each candidate independently, before putting them on the individual State Ballots.
3. The Vice-President, before declaring the winning candidate in the Senate, must count Electoral Votes, verify that there are NO objections in the Senate. and THEN declare a victor.
Three requirements, all of them done incorrectly, leading to the problem we have today.
That’s not what we’re talking about.
Already posted and discussed, but it’s good to return sometimes.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2425480/posts
If he knew enough to do the research for this article, then he knew what the law is, and ignored it.
8 USC 1401 is governing law in this. Period.
That's huge. I had no idea that Ben Franklin testified to the fact that the Framers consulted Vattel's work while drafting the Constitution. That is very important.
And many are pigheaded or argue this just for the distraction value.
The problem is that FReepers will read it and use it to claim BO is not legally the president.
There are MANY questions about his legal status to serve. This is not one of them.
Correct, Naturalized and Natural Born, have two very different meanings.
Title 8 of the U.S. Code, Section 1401
I disagree, and think your confused.
We are talking about Natuaral Born Status, not Naturalized status, or those seeking definition of US Citizenship, which Title 8, section 1401 is referring to.
So True...distraction is a valuable tool in debate, unless you know the facts.
Wong Kim Ark was seeking US Citizenship, not natural born status.
Dead wrong.
He may be a "US Citizen" by virtue of having been born to a mother who was herself an American citizen, but he is NOT a "Natural Born Citizen" for all of the reasons cited above.
We patriots can fight Obama on several fronts at the same time. There's no need to abandon this, or any other legitimate grievance against him.
The “Law of Nations” is also referenced in Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution.
The law is the law is the lay
Curse it, the wind, or the gods, at your peril.
The writer should know this.
Feh.
The law is the law is the law
Curse it, the wind, or the gods, at your peril.
The writer should know this.
In Arkansas, the Secretary of State certified him a year before the form was sent to him by the RAT party. Either it was a mistake or Daniels knew the truth but was afraid to do anything, but either way, it makes the entire certification null and void.
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/15127
I’ll handle this one, Ron.
Windflyer, LVR’s post was sarcasm.
I saw his "/FReeper Troll" tag, but it didn't make sense to my until after I'd posted.
I got it, Ron.
True...I checked it out.
I added the linked references to my post at the bottom, it links:
Emer Vattle’s biography
Vattels Law of Nations
SCOTUS before 1900
The Cases:
Venus
Shanks vs. Dupont
Minor vs. Happersett
US vs. Wong Kim Ark
These are excellent quick references to much of what is being debated today...
I hope this addition helps everybody to better understand what has happened, and how to fix and prevent further abuses by those who purport to represent the citizens of the US.
LOL.....didn’t mean to cause a ruccus!
Yes, I've seen that. Too bad that the Framers didn't put quotation marks around the title and reference Vattel by name in parenthesis to drive it home.
It would have been even better if they'd simply stated their definition of NBC in the Constitution, but in their day, clear and simple words conveyed clear and simple meanings.
I'm sure they had no idea that the implied understandings expressed in their eloquent 18th century tongue would leave holes big enough to drive a Mack truck through in centuries hence.
</sarc>
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