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Using Psychology To Save You From Yourself {0bamas plan for you "Behavioral Economics"}
NPR ^ | June 8, 2009 | Alix Spiegel

Posted on 03/18/2010 3:22:45 AM PDT by Tigen

This is the story of how obscure psychological research into human decision-making first revolutionized economics and now appears poised to remake the relationship between the government and its citizens.

Cass Sunstein, President Obama's pick to head the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, was a vocal supporter of the program, because it was an economic policy that shaped itself around human psychology. Sunstein is just one of a number of high-level appointees now working in the Obama administration who favors this kind of approach.

All are devotees of behavioral economics — a school of economic thought greatly influenced by psychological research — which argues that the human animal is hard-wired to make errors when it comes to decision-making, and therefore people need a little "nudge" to make decisions that are in their own best interests.

And that is exactly what Obama administration officials plan to do: By taking account of human psychology, they hope to save you from yourself.

(Excerpt) Read more at npr.org ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bhofascism; casssunstein; economy; islam; liberalfascism; nannystate; obama; sunstein

1 posted on 03/18/2010 3:22:45 AM PDT by Tigen
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To: Tigen

Who will protect us from Obama?


2 posted on 03/18/2010 3:30:54 AM PDT by DrC
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To: Tigen

“the human animal is hard-wired to make errors when it comes to decision-making, and therefore people need a little “nudge” to make decisions that are in their own best interests.”

Now I understand, the Obamaites are not human and therefore their decisions are infallible, even if the facts say different?????


3 posted on 03/18/2010 3:32:17 AM PDT by PORD (People...Of Right Do!)
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To: Tigen
The main point of contention, says Thaler, was the suggestion that humans are less than perfectly rational when it comes to decision-making. For the majority of the 20th century, and for the most part even today, the human beings imagined by economists and placed at the center of their economic models have had a Spock-like rationality.

I believe it. If I had been perfectly rational all my life I'd be a wealthy man by now - if I hadn't died of boredom. I spent a lot of money on wine, women and song. I don't regret a dime of it.

4 posted on 03/18/2010 3:36:34 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
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To: Tigen
Fascinating stuff, in the sense that NPR spells out another variant in a long line of agenda-driven rationalizations for totalitarianism wearing the cloak of "economics". One of the most annoying misdirections this school of thought employs is the following:

For the majority of the 20th century, and for the most part even today, the human beings imagined by economists and placed at the center of their economic models have had a Spock-like rationality.

Never. No real economist has ever imagined any such thing. There is a difference between irrationality and not having perfect information which neither the NPR author or the subjects of this article mention or even demonstrate awareness of, and might just provide an explanation for why people (gasp!) sometimes make bad decisions.

5 posted on 03/18/2010 3:44:23 AM PDT by TimSkalaBim
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To: R. Scott

Too much wisdom will drive a man insane — Solomon.

We don’t want a nanny state controlling our decisions.

Wasting money has consequences. Simple. And when it comes to spending cash on riotous living — Obama [smoker] and his pizza chef, Pelosi and her squadron of jetsetting junkets. HYPOCRITES!


6 posted on 03/18/2010 3:53:15 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (Weakening McCain strengthens our borders, weakens guest worker aka amnesty)
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To: PORD

Obama: “Half of my letters brand me an idiot”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2468312/posts

Filing this in ...

Obama-nomics link-list
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2464021/posts


7 posted on 03/18/2010 3:54:26 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (Weakening McCain strengthens our borders, weakens guest worker aka amnesty)
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To: R. Scott
a Spock-like rationality

Would that be the rationality that suggests people will continue to produce at their maximum level of efficiency even as they retain less and less of the fruits of their labor???

8 posted on 03/18/2010 3:59:53 AM PDT by gov_bean_ counter (Sarah Palin - For such a time as this...)
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
We don’t want a nanny state controlling our decisions.

By no means!
But I doubt 0bama will have much luck using psychology. First, he'd have to find something that actually worked. As noted in the article, tossing a telephone pole didn't indicate the best leaders. It would take years of research to find a working ploy, and one size does not fit all. He'd need a separate ploy for every subset of every subculture. What might work on a wall street broker would not work on a construction worker - and even at that all brokers and workers don't think alike.

9 posted on 03/18/2010 4:06:05 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
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To: gov_bean_ counter

That would only seem rational to true believer dedicated Marxists.


10 posted on 03/18/2010 4:08:48 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
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To: R. Scott

And with your post we close the loop.


11 posted on 03/18/2010 4:11:24 AM PDT by gov_bean_ counter (Sarah Palin - For such a time as this...)
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To: Tigen
Mw thinks Cass Sunstein and his 'mentor', Daniel Kahneman, the 'inventor' of behavioral economic, need to go play with Schrödinger's cat.

That'll keep em busy for a while.

12 posted on 03/18/2010 4:12:52 AM PDT by Condor51 (A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new. [A. Einstein])
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To: R. Scott

“But I doubt 0bama will have much luck using psychology.”

Not even on himself.


13 posted on 03/18/2010 4:13:16 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (Weakening McCain strengthens our borders, weakens guest worker aka amnesty)
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To: Tigen
"Merely accepting the fact that people do not necessarily make the best decisions for themselves is politically very explosive. The moment that you admit that, you have to start protecting people," Kahneman says.

In other words, if the human brain is hard-wired to make serious errors, that implies all kinds of things about the need for regulation and protection.

This article makes me want to punch somebody from the Obama Administration in the mouth.

Seriously, these pompous arrogant asses make me sick.

14 posted on 03/18/2010 4:15:14 AM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: Tigen
The city of Greensboro, N.C., has experimented with a program designed for teenage mothers. To prevent these teens from having another child, the city offered each of them $1 a day for every day they were not pregnant. It turns out that the psychological power of that small daily payment is huge. A single dollar a day was enough to push the rate of teen pregnancy down, saving all the incredible costs — human and financial — that go with teen parenting.

I'm convinced we're looking at that one the wrong way and have been for the past 80 years. Germany and Russia are presently in danger of collapse due to staggeringly low birth rates and the only thing keeping our own birth rate above water at present is immigrants, many if not most of whom are detrimental to the economic health of the country.

None of them are terribly worried about birth rates or teen pregnancies. In real life, the only choice we seem to have is WHOSE teens will be having kids, theirs or ours, and under what conditions and circumstances. The conclusion I'm coming to is that we actually need some sort of a conservative welfare system which would again make it both economically feasible and respectable for our own people to marry and start families at 17 or 20 as we are biologically programmed to do, and not at 35 or 40 when careers stand in the way and it's basically too late to have any more than 1.4 children.

15 posted on 03/18/2010 4:32:23 AM PDT by wendy1946
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To: Tigen

Behavior psych as taught by BF Skinner was hot stuff in the 1970’s & pretty much deemed useless shortly after that.

It works fine when teaching a chicken to play the piano but gets a bit more complex with humans as it’s impossible to control enough extraneous variables.

Of course, Obamanutz aren’t much brighter than chickens & they can at least be taught a job.


16 posted on 03/18/2010 4:36:05 AM PDT by jazminerose
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To: Tigen
Behavioural Econ does have some very good insights, as people do have certain innate tendencies that violate the traditional conception of the rational decision-maker (funny, however, that no-one's noticed, least of all the liberals, that this is the same thing as an inborn, fixed human character, which is something conservatives have always argued existed).

However, that cannot logically be the grounds on which one group of people decides to take over making decisions for another group of people because the group that would attempt the takeover suffers from precisely the same decision-making flaws and would therefore be unable, in general, to make decisions for someone any better than that person could make for themselves.

Furthermore, behavioural econ doesn't say that the traditional conception is totally invalid, just that it needs tweaking, which means that most of the theories based on that traditional conception are still valid, including the fact that the closer one is to the facts and circumstances, the better a decision-maker one is, and that one has to have some skin in the game to make a really economically efficient decision. As such, any group of strangers, no matter how much they may have deluded themselves into thinking they can make decisions for us better than we could for ourselves, is simply wrong. Period.

That is the essential conceit of socialism, and the basic, fundamental, unalterable reason why it cannot logically work. Given that, it is, in essence, nothing more than thievery and fraud, no matter how much nice altruistic-sounding rhetoric its proponents dress it up in. To paraphrase our most infamous socialist right now, no matter how much lipstick you put on that pig, it's still just a pig, and an ugly one at that.


17 posted on 03/18/2010 4:41:13 AM PDT by Oceander (The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance -- Thos. Jefferson)
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To: PORD

the human animal is hard-wired to make errors when it comes to decision-making<<<<< That’s for sure, electing this muzzie POS is primary evidence!


18 posted on 03/18/2010 4:57:06 AM PDT by timetostand (Ya say ya wanna revolution -- OK!)
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To: Tigen

Explains alot...just damn.


19 posted on 03/18/2010 5:06:50 AM PDT by dubyagee (Thrilled to be here...)
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To: Oceander

Good points. They group of people are still people and can’t exempt themselves from the rule about what they say people do.

Also, the “right” decision is subjective and often unknowable except in hindsight. What seems like a bad decision offers an individual valuable opportunities to fail and then learn from the failure. Who has not seen bad decisions which somehow turned out to be right for the person or seemingly good decisions that went wrong. The outcome of any decision depends on future unknown events.


20 posted on 03/18/2010 5:40:20 AM PDT by Anima Mundi (You can take a donkey travellin', but it won't come back a horse.)
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To: TimSkalaBim
There is a difference between irrationality and not having perfect information which neither the NPR author or the subjects of this article mention or even demonstrate awareness of

That's what has driven a lot of my purchases. Not having sufficient information to understand that that cool car or motorcycle I want was produced in such small numbers that it will be hard to get parts for, hard to get worked on, and was produced in small numbers for a REASON (the design basically sucked). I had a Taurus SHO based on that lack of knowledge. NEVER AGAIN. I buy Mustangs, Jeeps, 1911 model .45 autos, commonly produced models of bikes. No more "rare", few produced of anything, unless I'm just looking for a collectible.

For just a few concrete examples. I bought a bunch of gun related stuff during the Clinton administration that I've never used as another example. None of it's gone bad, but I haven't used it in 10 years, and I'll never get my money back. I did it because I thought he was going to get his agenda passed to disarm all of us. Again, incomplete information.

21 posted on 03/18/2010 5:46:52 AM PDT by Hardastarboard (Note to self: Never post in a thread about religion again.)
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To: Tigen
And that is exactly what Obama administration officials plan to do: By taking account of human psychology, they hope to save you from yourself.

This is likely the most terrifying sentence that I'll read all day today.

"I'm from the government and I'm here to save you from yourself!"

(shudder)

22 posted on 03/18/2010 5:58:40 AM PDT by wbill
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To: R. Scott
What might work on a wall street broker would not work on a construction worker - and even at that all brokers and workers don't think alike.

The democrat politicians are in sinc with democrat voters. The democrat base - unwed mothers, druggies, homos, commies/socialists, the lazy, race baiters, pro-aborts....etc. This is all they know. The democrat politicians don't understand the moral, the productive, the accountable, etc., because they never have contact with them. The democrat politicians think like their base, because like minds attract each other.
That's why none of the social programs or laws in America are designed for the normal American. The democrats don't even know there's such a thing as a normal American.

23 posted on 03/18/2010 5:59:05 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: R. Scott
Actually, homo oeconomicus is a kind of self-executing concept of circular reasoning. IE, when human beings make decisions, they believe these decisions are in their own self-interest. We know that by the fact of the decisions people actually make.

Homo oeconomicus is a concept of 'classical economics'. It's not part of other schools of economics. In Marxism, (arguably a school of economics) sets history and the stages of production as the moving forces of economics. In the Austrian school of economics (Hayek, von Mises, Rothbard + others), Human Action is the subject of this science. You observe how people actually act and behave. It studies what happens, when people are free to choose and what they do, when the State introduce coercion into economic activites. The Austrians don't believe, unlike Congress, that raising taxes has no effect on the economic behavior of human beings.

Basically, Cass Sunstein is using the flawed theory of economics and an arrogant view of human beings as an excuse to force people to behave in the way, he wants them to behave. Sunstein is tarting up his totalitarian impulses in science. Reminds me of "Scientific Socialism", which Karl Marx invented.

24 posted on 03/18/2010 6:21:09 AM PDT by Jabba the Nutt (Are they insane, stupid or just evil?)
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To: Oceander

Good post.
And yet the ‘progressives’ continue their plight even with all the historical evidence presented.


25 posted on 03/18/2010 6:51:36 AM PDT by griswold3 (You think health care is expensive now? Just wait till it's FREE!)
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To: griswold3
Of course they do. That is the surest sign that what liberals are really interested in is nothing more than a de-facto putsch, an illegal, unconstitutional, fascist seizure of power, precisely the same way that Hugo Chavez seized power in Venezuela, and the way that Manuel Zelaya attempted to seize power in Honduras. The Hondurans, God bless their souls, were blessed with sensible people who, when the push was on, did the right thing, and a military and supreme court that had the country's interests in mind, not their own personal interests, when they removed him from the office of president. Not to insult the brave Honduran people, but I am more than just a little dismayed that our own people are too blind and venal to do what the Hondurans saw as an absolute necessity.




26 posted on 03/18/2010 7:05:38 AM PDT by Oceander (The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance -- Thos. Jefferson)
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To: Tigen
Who the hell do these people think they are to make all our decisions for us ?

That's some kind of sick and twisted God complex.

The only hope I can see in it is that these type of programs always fail, because the foundation of them involves the coercion of another, and thus are spiritually bankrupt.

How is it that these supposedly so smart people have missed that part ?

Didn't they study Gandhi's nonviolence/ sarcasm.

27 posted on 03/18/2010 7:38:50 AM PDT by Red Boots
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To: Tigen

The only thing worse than stupid people making decisions for themselves is government bureaucrats making decisions for them.

At least the stupid people can learn from their mistakes, because they suffer the consequences.

The bureaucrat can persist in his mistakes, because he is not punished by the bad consequences of his decisions.


28 posted on 03/18/2010 7:47:20 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie (Call the local offices of Congresscritters. They are still answering the phone.)
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To: Tigen

This is from a 2007 contact list of congressional aides. Some might not be there any longer, but worth a try. The ones on the one post are senate aides, a few have bounced back, it’s worth the effort to clog up their email system along with the phones, and 1/3rd of these senators are up for re-election.

Contact congressional aides.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1857768/posts
U.S. Senate switchboard: (202) 224-3121
U.S. House switchboard: (202) 225-3121
White House comments: (202) 456-1111
Find your House Rep.: http://www.house.gov/writerep
Find your US Senators: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
Toll free to the US Senate:
1-800-882-2005. (Spanish number)
1-800-417-7666. (English number)

Courtesy of a pro-amnesty group, no less!!

Defeat Obamacare call list: List now contains the new MAYBES culled from FR posts. Be sure to call KNOWN RINOS too.THEY ARE ANSWERING THEIR LOCAL NUMBERS

Here is one of the ones Rush gave out on the radio that I’m calling. So far it’s been busy but I’m going to burn it up till I get to tell my congress critter to vote NO!
Join me?..... 1-877-762-8762

Good idea from the bloggers at Hillbuzz:
http://hillbuzz.org/2010/03/17/action-items-march-17th-2010/
They offer specifics and links on how to put pressure on Dem DONORS, who have private numbers for legislators who may have taken their phones off the hook.
Congress may not want to hear from us, but they’ll listen to the money men.

KEEP THE CALLS UP! DC OFFICE LOCAL OFFICE

CODE RED Contact list http://www.nrcc.org/CodeRed/targets/
Remember they are all being offered BRIBES for their votes. Ask them how much their bribe price is.
The National Republican Congressional Committee has published a target list on health care. In addition to continuing to contact the five Tennessee Democrat Congressmen, you can go http://www.votervoice.net/link/clickthrough/ext/94697.aspx to contact some of these targets. Much of the talk following Obama’s announcement has focused on how to defeat this second bill through reconciliation, but that is misleading because the first step to defeating Obamacare is not by concentrating on defeating the “fixer” bill but by defeating the Senate bill in the House when it goes to the floor for an up-or-down vote on Thursday, March 18th.

New FLIPPERS
Dennis Kucinish, Lakewood 216)228-8850, Fax (216)228-6465,
Parma. 440)845-2707, Fax (440)845-2743, DC (202)225-5871
Dennis Cardoza DC (202) 225-6131, Fax: 225-0819, 800-356-6424, Merced, (209) 383-4455 Fax: 726-1065 Modesto 209) 527-1914 Fax: 527-5748 Modesto, (209) 527-1914
Fax: 527-5748
Jim Costa Fresno 559-495-1620, Fax:559-495-1027, Bakersfeld, 661-869-1620 Fax: 661-869-1027 DC Phone:202-225-3341 Fax: 202-225-9308
Fax (202)225-5745
James Oberstar (202) 225-6211, Duluth (218) 727-7474,

Chisholm (218) 254-5761, Brainerd (218) 828-4400, North Branch, (651) 277-1234
Gabrielle Giffords (202) 225-2542 (520) 881-3588 AZ 8th District
Rep. Lincoln Davis 202-225-6831 Columbia office: 931-490-8699
Rep. Jim Cooper 202-225-4311 Nashville office: 615-736-5295
Rep. Bart Gordon 202-225-4231 Murfreesboro office: 615-896-1986
John Tanner (202) 225-4714, Union City, (731) 885-7070, Jackson Phone: (731) 423-4848, Millington (901) 873-5690 TN (MAYBE)
Rep. Steve Cohen 202-225-3265 Memphis office: 901-544-4131
Harry Mitchell (202) 225-2190 (480) 946-2411 AZ 5th District
Ann Kirkpatrick (202) 225-2315 (928) 226-6914 AZ 1st District
Jerry McNerney (202) 225-1947 925-833-0643 CA 11th District
John Salazar 202-225-4761 970-245-7107 CO 3rd District
Jim Himes (202) 225-5541 (866) 453-0028 CT 4th District
Alan Grayson (202) 225-2176 (407) 841-1757 FL 8th District
Bill Foster (202) 225-2976 630-406-1114 IL 14th District
Baron Hill 202 225 5315 812 288 3999 IN 9th District
Mark Schauer (202) 225-6276 (517) 780-9075 MI 7th District
Gary Peters (202) 225-5802 (248) 273-4227 MI 9th District
Dina Titus (202) 225-3252 702-256-DINA (3462) NV 3rd District
Carol Shea-Porter (202) 225-5456 (603) 743-4813 NH 1st District
Tim Bishop (202) 225-3826 (631) 696-6500 NY 1st District
John Hall (202) 225-5441 (845) 225-3641 x49371 NY 19th District
Bill Owens (202) 225-4611 (315) 782-3150 NY 23rd District
James Matheson Toll-Free Number 1 (877) 677-9743 (202) 225-3011Mike Arcuri (202)225-3665 (315)793-8146 NY 24th District
Dan Maffei (202) 225-3701 (315) 423-5657 NY 25th District
Earl Pomeroy (202) 225-2611 (701) 224-0355 ND At-Large District
Steven Driehaus (202) 225-2216 (513) 684-2723 OH 1st District
Mary Jo Kilroy (202) 225-2015 (614) 294-2196 OH 15th District
Zach Space (202) 225-6265 (330) 364-4300 OH 18th District
Kathy Dahlkemper (202) 225-5406 (814) 456-2038 PA 3rd District
Patrick Murphy (202) 225-4276 (215) 826-1963 PA 8th District
Christopher Carney (202) 225-3731 (570) 585-9988 PA 10th District
Paul Kanjorski (202) 225-6511 (570) 825-2200 PA 11th District
John Spratt (202) 225-5501 (803)327-1114 SC 5th District
Tom Perriello (202) 225-4711 (276) 656-2291 VA 5th District
Alan Mollohan (202) 225-4172 (304) 623-4422 WVA 1st District
Nick Rahall (202) 225-3452 (304) 252-5000 WVA 3rd District
Steve Kagen (202) 225-5665 (920) 437-1954 WI 8th District
Bart Stupak (202) 225 4735 MI (MAYBE)
Brian Baird (202) 225-3536, Vancouver, (360) 695-6292. Olympia, (360) 352-9768, (MAYBE)
senator mark begich (202) 224-3004 toll free. (877) 501 - 6275 just became a MAYBE

Jason Altmire 202-225-2565, Aliquippa, 724-378-0928,
Natrona Heights, 724-226-1304 (MAYBE)
On the Bubble (Major developments from the “yes” and “no” columns in the House)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2467046/posts
Congressional Dems on Twitter
http://www.arrghpaine.com/congressional-dems-on-twitter
And here are toll-free numbers we can use to call any Senators or Reps.

At the first number below you must wait through a tape recording urging you to tell your Rep or Senator to vote “yes” for the health care bill. Just hang on and when the recording is over, you will get the Capitol operator. Just ask for your Rep or Senator’s office. Then you will either talk to an aid or have the chance to leave a message for him/her to vote NO on the health care bill.

When you use the second number and the Capitol operator comes on, just ask for your Rep or Senator’s office. Every time I use this number I get the Rep or Senator’s answer machine, so it may be set up that way all the time...to go to their answer machine. Either way you can leave a message to vote NO on the health care bill!

We need to use these toll free numbers that have been set up for the health care/ BO supporters and illegals to use! After all they are FREE!

1-866-220-0044, 1-866-338-1015, 877-851-6437, 877-210-5351


29 posted on 03/18/2010 7:52:05 AM PDT by GailA (obamacare paid for by cuts & taxes on most vulnerable Veterans, disabled,seniors & retired Military)
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To: concerned about politics

They think their base are the normal Americans.


30 posted on 03/18/2010 2:07:46 PM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
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To: Jabba the Nutt
... when human beings make decisions, they believe these decisions are in their own self-interest.

Yep, and Karl Marx has been proven wrong. People prefer to act in their own self interest, not in the best interest of the collective.

31 posted on 03/18/2010 2:19:54 PM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
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To: Oceander

Oceander writes - “that cannot logically be, the grounds on which one group of people decides to take over making decisions for another group of people, because the group that would attempt the takeover suffers from precisely the same decision-making flaws and would therefore be unable, in general, to make decisions for someone any better than that person could make for themselves. “

Ding! Ding! Ding! Folks, we have a winner!


32 posted on 03/18/2010 8:24:16 PM PDT by thesearethetimes... ("Courage, is fear that has said its prayers." DorothyBernard)
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To: Uncle Miltie

Uncle Miltie writes - “The bureaucrat can persist in his mistakes, because he is not punished by the bad consequences of his decisions.”

Also very well said, but it is my fondest hope, that we can remedy that, and soon.

Tatt


33 posted on 03/18/2010 8:30:17 PM PDT by thesearethetimes... ("Courage, is fear that has said its prayers." DorothyBernard)
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