Skip to comments.Federal Minimum Wage and Requiring Health Care -- What's the difference
Posted on 03/22/2010 7:23:47 AM PDT by indianyogi
Someone asked a question: if government can set the mandated minimum wage, why can't they require us to buy health insurance?
Why should they do either?
I think the stronger argument is that they demand we buy into social security and medicare, why not healthcare.
Does the federal government require you to work? And if you don’t work do you have to pay a fine/tax or go to jail?
Neither are mentioned in the Constitution, so, they should BOTH be STATE Issues, having NOTHING to do with the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
Easy come, easy go...
If you CHOOSE to employ others, the government has certain requirements.
You have no CHOICE when it comes to national healthcare. If you exist, you must subscribe to the service.
Same comparison can be made with paying FICA, or property taxes. These are conditions imposed on you because you CHOOSE to work or own property. This socialist bill is imposed on you without your choice.
the mandate should have been challenged but i am guessing that it may be that the fed government cant force you to purchase or fine you for not purchasing an item.
my questions is “isnt liability insurance on your car a mandated insurance”....I also think that since insurance is regulated state by state...that it is a states rights issue so fed healthcare is not constitutional. of course most of what gov does is not
One is a purely economic matter, a wage, imposed upon employers. The other is not a purely economic matter, and involves the requirement to purchase a product, imposed upon individuals. The courts may treat thses differently.
However, if we must accept the minimum wage, we still must see the difference between that and what we face now.
The minimum wage does not require any contract with anyone, for labor.
Health Care “reform” does require a contract, which is not Constitutional.
Employers aren’t required to hire (yet) employees at minimum or any other wage. People will be required to buy Obamacare health insurance.
I am not forced to hire someone to then pay them what ever the minimum wage is. But as an “individual” I am being forced to purchase a product.
I think a strong ruling on the 10th Amendment could have wide reaching implications. Also, minimum wage is state legislation not Federal legislation
You make a good point
Require us to work? Well, yeah, after they set up the Gulags for the people who don’t pay fines, we will all be provided with work.
When it started, it cost $3 for Part B....equal to about one hour pay.
Now Part B costs $96 a month. Know anyone who makes $96 an hour??
Very true, but even if it were struck down I think they could get around it quite easily: impose a tax on everyone and then give an equal tax credit only to those who buy the approved insurance.
The feds give out tax credits on specific purchases all the time.
Beat me to it.
Didn’t Michelle say something to the effect of Barack will require everyone to work? Not an exact quote, but something similar.
Anyways, I was just trying to point out that the question in the OP is a strawman argument.
In state Commerce is regulated by state regulations. Health Care cannot be bought across state lines there for it is IN STATE, not INTERSTATE commerce.
Just being a resident of this country means that you must purchase health insurance or be covered by it. Big difference. It is unprecedented.
People have the right to not accept jobs or to accept them based on the pay. You are NOT forced to work at minimum wage. You ARE forced to buy insurance (now).
Employment is a commercial activity. Not buying or having health insurance is not a commercial activity.
Makes you wonder if they came up with the mandate with the intent of it being struck down as unconsitutional later. Their goal is to bankrupt the health care insurance industry. Seems to me this would do it. Require health insurance companies to accept everyone with preexisting conditions, those people wait until they get sick to buy health insurance, premiums go through the roof, people cry out to the government for “help”. And then we get single-payer.
Simple, I’m not REQUIRED to hire anybody nor start a business.
Actually, until the late thirties, your view was the dominant view of the rights of the states vs. the feds. Then eventually FDR got enough justices on the court to essentially decide that the commerce clause empowered the federal government to do anything it damn well pleases. It has become the classic case of an exception swallowing the rule.
Well WHEN this is ruled UNCONSTITUTIONAL, it will take care of that question.
I thought with SS and medicare they demand you pay in, but don’t demand to receive bene’s
Why not? After all, everyone know that "Work Makes Free".
NOBODY can force you to WORK!
The “miniumum wage” is not Constitutional either.
Can they continue creating anti-Constitutional abominations?
Who’s going to stop them?
Liability insurance is just that,liability. One job govt does have is to protect an individual from the illegal or reckless acts of another. Auto insurance does that. Unlike our POTUS anyone who went to Drivers Ed knows you must have insurance to compensate for damage,injury,death caused by your vehicle. No one is required to have insurance to pay for damage to their vehicle.(Collision).
While I am not sure the Federal minimum wage is constitutional, you could at least make an argument for Federal authority to implement it under the interstate commerce clause.
An individual health insurance mandate is not regulating commerce, but effectively compelling all Americans to engage in a particular type of commerce. One might argue that authority to impose an employer mandate could be justified the by ICC, (much like the minimum wage) but certainly not an individual one.
If every American is required to buy health insurance, what would stop the Federal government from requiring Americans to purchase any number of other things, such as an HDTV, a cell phone, or some totally useless and very expensive widget available only from a company controlled by members of congress?
Some Rebublican ought to propose a law mandating that every American buy a gun, or a bust of Ronald Reagan, or a copy of the Constitution, or something else offensive to Liberals. When the the Liberals cry “You have no right to force us to buy that!”, the response would be, “Well you had no right to force us to buy health insurance, but you did it anyway.”
An individual mandate is equivalent to a head tax—a tax imposed on every legal resident regardless of whether they are working, own property etc. A minimum wage applies only to those who are working and is “binding”—i.e., has a practical effect on what you get paid—only for a very small fraction of workers.
So both are infringements on liberty, but the individual mandate affects virtually everyone whereas the minimum wage affects many fewer.
It’s about damn time we get BACK to a more CONSTITUTIONAL VIEW of the USA... otherwise.. we’re now the USSA instead.
**When the the Liberals cry You have no right to force us to buy that!, the response would be, Well you had no right to force us to buy health insurance, but you did it anyway.**
That’s the most Common Sense Idea I’ve heard in months... however.. it will never cross the mind of the Republicans.
SS & Medicare are taxes, government rhetoric notwithstanding. Healthcare reform is making US citizens purchase a private product at prevailing prices.
Indianyogi might have a point that the Federal Minimum Wage is the closest comparison to the Healthcare mandate.
I am not forced (at the point of a gun) to pay anyone a wage. I still have a free choice in the matter. (Key word: FREE)
After that little tiff following the State of the Union address I wonder if a majority of the Supreme Court will have the stones to overturn Healthcare Reform. They looked pretty spooked.
Short answer: you decide whether to employ someone.
MINIMUM WAGE, MAXIMUM FOLLY
A MINORITY VIEW
BY WALTER E. WILLIAMS
RELEASE: WEDNESDAY, MARCH 23, 2005, AND THEREAFTER
Also, minimum wage is state legislation not Federal legislation
Here's where the Federal law on Minimum Wage applies to the states... you see... :-)
By law, states are allowed to establish their own minimum wages and regulations. However, anytime the state minimum wage differs from the federal minimum wage, the higher rate applies.
The miniumum wage is not Constitutional either.
I love these arguments where "it is said" something is not Constitutional, and where "It has been done for decades" and it's never been declared Unconstitutional... LOL ...