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Democrats fire on Ft. Sumter
One News Now ^ | 3/22/2010 | Peter Heck

Posted on 03/22/2010 10:10:57 AM PDT by Between the Lines

When the one time pro-life Democrat Bart Stupak was stammering through his bizarre press conference announcing that he and his cohorts would support ObamaCare, a friend texted me, "That's all she wrote." I fired back, "Hardly."

Here's why: if I asked you to name a famous battle of the American Civil War, what would you say? Most would name Gettysburg, some might mention Bull Run, Antietam, Shiloh, or even Sherman's March to the Sea. But left off most everyone's list would be the battle that started it all...the firing on Fort Sumter. That's primarily due to the fact that though it was the sparking event, the skirmish paled in comparison to the back-and-forth drama that would unfold over the next half a decade.

What happened Sunday in the House of Representatives was merely the opening skirmish of a coming war over not just healthcare in America, but abortion, states' rights, and the Constitution itself.

In the days leading up to the vote, several Democrats on Capitol Hill were heard remarking that they just wanted to get this vote behind them and move on with other business. That might have been possible if they would have voted to kill this unconstitutional monstrosity that is now poised to obliterate state economies. But they didn't. Instead, they fired on Fort Sumter.

So where will we see the next offensive in this unfolding war? Most likely the federal courts will take center stage as the embittered states fight back against the betrayal of their sovereignty and the shattering of their budgets.

(Excerpt) Read more at onenewsnow.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: South Carolina
KEYWORDS: civilwar; wethepeople
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1 posted on 03/22/2010 10:10:58 AM PDT by Between the Lines
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To: Between the Lines

bttt


2 posted on 03/22/2010 10:12:40 AM PDT by Principled (Get the capital back! NRST!)
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To: Between the Lines
The bill is unconstitutional, fer shur. But I doubt the federal courts will do much about it, just like they didn't do anything about CFR.
3 posted on 03/22/2010 10:14:15 AM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: Between the Lines

Sherman’s March to the Sea...wholesale and unmitigated genocide...far and away the worst of the worst of the Civil War. Far and away. It was so far beyond the pale that it makes every other action in our entire military history look innocent. It was a disgrace.


4 posted on 03/22/2010 10:14:35 AM PDT by jessduntno (Obama in complete control of your health care and mine. What could possibly go wrong?)
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To: Between the Lines

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2475562/posts


5 posted on 03/22/2010 10:15:05 AM PDT by Bob Eimiller (appeasement "it's the idea that if you feed the alligator he will eat you last." Winston Churchill)
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To: Between the Lines

This time all you “yankees” are welcome to join our side for states’ rights. In fact, if the south had prevailed the states’ right issue would have been resolved and this bill would never have seen the light of day. So, let’s get it right this time.


6 posted on 03/22/2010 10:15:44 AM PDT by Terry Mross (We need a second SONS OF LIBERTY but there won't be one.)
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To: Between the Lines

Ironic analogy....given that it was Lincoln and the defeat of the Confederacy that put us on the nationalist path that has given us Obama and ObamaCare.


7 posted on 03/22/2010 10:16:35 AM PDT by Lee'sGhost (Johnny Rico picked the wrong girl!)
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To: Between the Lines

Fort Sumter was a set up.


8 posted on 03/22/2010 10:17:13 AM PDT by Vermont Lt (This nation, of the people, by the people, and for the people has perished from the land.)
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To: Between the Lines
There was no violence yesterday, so I would not compare it to an artillary barrage of a military station.

It see it more like Dredd Scott. In that case, the government sat in deliberation and declared that people of African ancestry could not be citizens of the United States.
Yesterday, the government sat in deliberation and declared that people were required to enter into a contract for health insurance, whether they wanted to or not.

Are we free citizens, or not? This is a matter that is worth fighting for. I think Ft. Sumter is coming, but I don't thin we've seen it yet.

9 posted on 03/22/2010 10:17:16 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (I do not want the Union to be maintained. I want the US to break up. I support secession.)
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To: jessduntno
Sherman’s March to the Sea...wholesale and unmitigated genocide...far and away the worst of the worst of the Civil War. Far and away. It was so far beyond the pale that it makes every other action in our entire military history look innocent. It was a disgrace.

Destroy the enemy's means to wage war. It worked over the skies in Germany in WWII not to mention Japan. The plantations were the primary source of funds continuing the war. If my son were a blue-belly, I think I would have supported Sherman much in the same way my father who fought in the Pacific favored using the Atomic bomb... to end the war.

10 posted on 03/22/2010 10:19:45 AM PDT by rhombus
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To: Between the Lines

And they were flying the bonnie blue flag. I found it interesting that in one state that prohibited a band from playing Dixie, that they played “The Bonnie Blue Flag” and the left wings dipsh**s didn’t have a clue. This was a couple years back.


11 posted on 03/22/2010 10:20:09 AM PDT by calex59
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To: jessduntno

It was also incredibly successful. I say that as a Southerner. We can learn from every example, and nothing weakens an enemy faster than total war. We can use that also.


12 posted on 03/22/2010 10:20:10 AM PDT by Republic of Texas (Socialism Always Fails)
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To: Vermont Lt
Fort Sumter was a set up.

And for once, the Democrats were the stupid party. ;-)

13 posted on 03/22/2010 10:21:09 AM PDT by rhombus
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To: Vermont Lt

Yep, it was the North starting a war so they could force the south back into the Union.


14 posted on 03/22/2010 10:21:30 AM PDT by calex59
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To: jessduntno

A reminder of how far the feds ARE willing to go.


15 posted on 03/22/2010 10:23:53 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (+)
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To: Terry Mross
This time all you “yankees” are welcome to join our side for states’ rights. In fact, if the south had prevailed the states’ right issue would have been resolved and this bill would never have seen the light of day. So, let’s get it right this time.

Where was the South when New England was standing up for states' rights from 1801 to 1815? The South was calling them traitors.

Do you know why the South seceded from the Union? Because Lincoln was elected President. He hadn't even been inaugurated and they had a hissy fit and seceded. Furthermore, they knew good and well that Abraham Lincoln had no intention of interfering with slavery in those states where it already existed because the Constitution gave it ironclad protection. His only "crime" was not wanting slavery to spread throughout the country. Because of this, the planters seceded from the Union in a typical Democrat hissy-fit.

"States' rights?" I got three words for you: Fugitive Slave Law.

16 posted on 03/22/2010 10:24:46 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Hinneh, 'Anokhi sholeach lakhem 'et 'Eliyyah HaNavi'; lifney bo' yom HaShem hagadol vehanora'!)
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To: Lee'sGhost
Ironic analogy....given that it was Lincoln and the defeat of the Confederacy that put us on the nationalist path that has given us Obama and ObamaCare.

Actually it was the ratification of the Constitution in 1787-88.

17 posted on 03/22/2010 10:25:50 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Hinneh, 'Anokhi sholeach lakhem 'et 'Eliyyah HaNavi'; lifney bo' yom HaShem hagadol vehanora'!)
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To: Between the Lines
Fort Sumter was no doubt a historically important event; however, it started a war that ended in failure. Let us hope that if this is Fort Sumter, it, too, will not end in defeat. One of the affects that occurred from the Civil War was that the federal government usurped powers that belonged to states. State's rights exists in name only. The Supreme Court has interpreted the commerce clause in the Constitution in such a way that it allows the federal government to impose its will wherever and whenever it chooses. Neither political party seems interested in reversing the trend and setting limits to the federal government. I am trying to find some reason to be optimistic about the near future, but it looks very bleak today. At some point, the national debt is going to cause the United States to implode, and we will see riots such as we are now seeing in Greece. Maybe out of the ashes of financial ruin America will once again return to limited government.
18 posted on 03/22/2010 10:26:03 AM PDT by Nosterrex
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Actually it was the ratification of the Constitution in 1787-88.”

Heh heh...looking for original sin can be a gas.


19 posted on 03/22/2010 10:27:19 AM PDT by jessduntno (Obama in complete control of your health care and mine. What could possibly go wrong?)
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To: Republic of Texas

Victor Davis Hanson has an interesting take on Sherman and his methods. Sherman basically destroyed infrastructure, not people. There was no genocide. His troops were isntructed to respond to resistance, which they did, but those occasions became less and less as his march proceeded. A brilliant tactic for the day. Those who did not resist learned a lesson - for good or ill - that they would never forget.


20 posted on 03/22/2010 10:29:05 AM PDT by Noumenon ("Upon what meat doth this our Caesar feed, that he has grown so great?" - Julius Caesar)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

I take back my invitation. You will not be welcomed. Stay up there in the land of commies. And remember, the repubicans of that day are the democrats of today.

And one other thing, the best thing that happened to America at that time was the hole put in Lincoln’s head. Too bad it didn’t happen earlier. Does that get your dander up?


21 posted on 03/22/2010 10:30:34 AM PDT by Terry Mross (We need a second SONS OF LIBERTY but there won't be one.)
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To: colorado tanker
But I doubt the federal courts will do much about it, just like they didn't do anything about CFR.

Hate to break it to you, but they did do something about CFR... that was the whole bone of contention when Obama insulted the members of the Court to their faces at the SotU address.

22 posted on 03/22/2010 10:32:28 AM PDT by kevkrom (Hey, IRS: can I simply "deem" my taxes paid instead of paying them?)
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To: Between the Lines

Good article.


23 posted on 03/22/2010 10:34:48 AM PDT by devere
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To: Terry Mross
And remember, the repubicans of that day are the democrats of today.

This Yankee says, "Ya got that right!"

24 posted on 03/22/2010 10:37:15 AM PDT by Tallguy ("The sh- t's chess, it ain't checkers!" -- Alonzo (Denzel Washington) in "Training Day")
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To: Between the Lines

OK, since we’ve gone down the Civil War path yet again... where in the Constitution is the right of secession? Many sons of the South have assured me “it’s in there” or “it was in there”.... Where? Is it there or not? Or is it one of those rights like abortion that isn’t there either? I understand the 10th amendment but that ain’t secession. And if secession’s not in the Constitution, should it have been there and why didn’t the founders create an “escape clause”?

Remember, son of the South and tehn President George Washington put down Shay’s rebellion in the North.


25 posted on 03/22/2010 10:38:12 AM PDT by rhombus
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To: Terry Mross; Admin Moderator
I take back my invitation. You will not be welcomed. Stay up there in the land of commies.

That's going to be hard to do, seeing as how I'm Southern born and bred and descended from noble Southern Unionists and Republicans (like many other Southerners).

And remember, the repubicans of that day are the democrats of today.

How can you remember something that ain't true? And you neglected to explain how the Fugitive Slave Law contributed to states' rights.

And one other thing, the best thing that happened to America at that time was the hole put in Lincoln’s head. Too bad it didn’t happen earlier. Does that get your dander up?

Considering that the assassination of Lincoln led directly to Radical Reconstruction, I suppose you could say that.

26 posted on 03/22/2010 10:42:42 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Hinneh, 'Anokhi sholeach lakhem 'et 'Eliyyah HaNavi'; lifney bo' yom HaShem hagadol vehanora'!)
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To: jessduntno

wholesale and unmitigated genocide

<><><><><<

You are using the word genocide inappropriately, IMO. Where is the wanton and directed slaughter of the people? It isn’t there, and that is the hallmark of genocide.


27 posted on 03/22/2010 10:43:13 AM PDT by dmz
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To: All
Another article comparing the healthcare vote to Ft. Sumter:

The Fort Sumter Healthcare Vote

28 posted on 03/22/2010 10:46:12 AM PDT by Between the Lines (AreYouWhoYouSayYouAre?)
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To: Terry Mross
Terry Mross said: "And one other thing, the best thing that happened to America at that time was the hole put in Lincoln’s head. "

Did the evil of slavery play any part in the conflict? Was that not the "abortion" of its time?

Since slavery was Constitutional prior to the Thirteenth Amendment, it should come as no surprise that only extra-Constitutional action could bring an end to it.

If all fifty states supported abortion as a right and the federal government insisted that it was murder, which side would you be on?

29 posted on 03/22/2010 10:47:22 AM PDT by William Tell
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To: Terry Mross
And one other thing, the best thing that happened to America at that time was the hole put in Lincoln’s head. Too bad it didn’t happen earlier. Does that get your dander up?

No, it does not get my dander up. It just convinces me that you are an idiot.

Does that get your dander up?

30 posted on 03/22/2010 10:52:10 AM PDT by Ditto (Directions for Clean Government: If they are in, vote them out. Rinse and repeat.)
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To: rhombus

“Destroy the enemy’s means to wage war.”

Well, if passing the Health Scare Bill is Ft Sumpter, the best way to destroy the enemy’s means to wage war is to have the states introduce an amendment to the Constitution repealing the 16th Amendment (income tax).

Also, to carry the analogy further, Island #10, Ft Henry and Ft. Donaldson will be the November elections for state legislatures. Redistricting is done by the legislatures in 2011, so controlling those bodies is the key to controlling redistricting for the next decade.


31 posted on 03/22/2010 10:53:13 AM PDT by No Truce With Kings (The opinions expressed are mine! Mine! MINE! All Mine!)
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To: Terry Mross
And one other thing, the best thing that happened to America at that time was the hole put in Lincoln’s head. Too bad it didn’t happen earlier. Does that get your dander up?

The assassination of Lincoln after the war did nothing for the Southern cause and only insured that the radical Republicans would have their way in punishing the south during reconstruction which Lincoln opposed.

32 posted on 03/22/2010 10:55:31 AM PDT by Between the Lines (AreYouWhoYouSayYouAre?)
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To: No Truce With Kings

Good plan. Right now I hear too much concern about finding a celebrity for President in 2012. First things, first.


33 posted on 03/22/2010 10:56:18 AM PDT by rhombus
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To: Terry Mross

the best thing that happened to America at that time was the hole put in Lincoln’s head.

<><><><><>

OK. How so? What changed in the former Confederacy for the better as a result of Lincoln’s assassination?

I’d be very interested in your take on that question.


34 posted on 03/22/2010 10:57:21 AM PDT by dmz
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To: colorado tanker

“But I doubt the federal courts will do much about it, just like they didn’t do anything about CFR.”

Actually, they have done a little something. Took them a while.


35 posted on 03/22/2010 11:02:25 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Zionist Conspirator

“Actually it was the ratification of the Constitution in 1787-88.”

Which wouldn’t have been ratified at all had it excluded slavery...which makes your point, well, pointless.


36 posted on 03/22/2010 11:02:28 AM PDT by Lee'sGhost (Johnny Rico picked the wrong girl!)
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To: jessduntno

“wholesale and unmitigated genocide”

That’s an unmitigated exaggeration. Surely, he decided to fight civilians instead of the opposing army (because civilians are less likely to shoot back). But he didn’t intend to kill all of them, hence it’s wasn’t genocide.


37 posted on 03/22/2010 11:04:25 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: proud_yank; intenseracer

Ping!


38 posted on 03/22/2010 11:04:50 AM PDT by redhead (ROC & ROLL: Restore Our Constitution--Restore Our Lost Liberties! --Gunslinger)
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To: Between the Lines
Instead, they fired on Fort Sumter.
This is a bad comparison as the firing on Fort Sumter was a direct response to actions first taken by the federal government. A new tax (the aptly named Tariff of Abominations) was passed in Congress that would've seriously damaged the Southern States economically.

Abraham Lincoln Endorses Permanent Slavery Amendment
But, because the Southern States left the Union to avoid Lincoln's newly passed 40% import tax (see below) and not to protect slavery, few experts expect the South to return.
Snip...Therefore, if there is to be a war, observers are predicting that Lincoln will start the war by invading Charleston Harbor with warships to hold Fort Sumter, a tax collection fort.

John C. Calhoun: He Started the Civil War
Congress responded to the nullification by drafting the Force Bill, which authorized the president to use military power to compel South Carolina to comply with the tariff.
Yes, Virginia, the Civil War was over taxes despite what others may tell you.

The scenario now, Mr. Heck, is Congress hunkering down inside the tax collection fort waiting to be fired upon.

39 posted on 03/22/2010 11:04:57 AM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: dmz
"Where is the wanton and directed slaughter of the people? It isn’t there, and that is the hallmark of genocide."

Sherman’s goal, as he stated, was to commit genocide against the people of Georgia. He was not met by any serious military resistance - there was none - other than a few cavalry skirmishes. It was almost entirely a campaign of death and destruction of civilians and their property.

40 posted on 03/22/2010 11:05:21 AM PDT by jessduntno (Obama in complete control of your health care and mine. What could possibly go wrong?)
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To: Tublecane

See #40


41 posted on 03/22/2010 11:06:00 AM PDT by jessduntno (Obama in complete control of your health care and mine. What could possibly go wrong?)
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To: Republic of Texas

See #40


42 posted on 03/22/2010 11:06:57 AM PDT by jessduntno (Obama in complete control of your health care and mine. What could possibly go wrong?)
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To: Republic of Texas
It was also incredibly successful. I say that as a Southerner. We can learn from every example, and nothing weakens an enemy faster than total war. We can use that also.

I say cut off the snake's head - after that it's just a mop-up operation.

43 posted on 03/22/2010 11:07:00 AM PDT by The Duke
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To: rhombus

See #40.

Japan still had the ability to defend itself and there were military objectives there as well.

Sherman didn’t go just to kill the crops. He was a madman.


44 posted on 03/22/2010 11:08:44 AM PDT by jessduntno (Obama in complete control of your health care and mine. What could possibly go wrong?)
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To: William Tell; Terry Mross; wideawake
Did the evil of slavery play any part in the conflict? Was that not the "abortion" of its time?

Since slavery was Constitutional prior to the Thirteenth Amendment, it should come as no surprise that only extra-Constitutional action could bring an end to it.

If all fifty states supported abortion as a right and the federal government insisted that it was murder, which side would you be on?

Personally, I am sick and tired of the persistent Dixiecrat claim that modern leftism vindicates the Confederacy. It does nothing of the kind.

The Republican party was not an abolitionist party. It was a nonextentionist party. Abraham Lincoln had not the slightest intention of interfering in the internal affairs of the slave states, and the Dixiecrats know this (some of them even admit it). They seceded because they had been in the process (thanks to the Kansas-Nebraska Act, the Fugitive Slave Law, and the Dred Scott decision) of extending slavery into every state and territory in the country, with no way to keep it out. Anti-slavery Northerners had to sit and watch escaped slaves being captured and chained in the streets of their towns and were told they had to like it. The people of Kansas were told that if enough immigrants from Missouri came over and outvoted them to introduce slavery, well . . . that was democracy in action--sort of like our own illegal aliens today.

Neither the Dixiecrats nor the Left is telling the true story of our Civil War. It was not a proto-Marxist crusade to free an inherently subversive population (and if that population was "inherently subversive," they never should have been brought over here in the first place). Neither was it a "noble battle for states' rights." Both of these claims are sheer propaganda and hooey.

My ancestors are not Democrats who became Republicans in 1964 or in 1932. My ancestors were Southerners who fought for the Union and have been continuously Republican since Lincoln. And a lot of Southerners fought for the Union just as a lot of Northerners fought for/sympathized with the Confederacy.

I honor and respect the Confederate dead. Unfortunately, this is not reciprocated. My ancestors, who followed their consciences exactly as did the Confederate soldiers, are vilified not only by neo-Confederates but by palaeo-conservatives as inhuman proto-Communist fiends. Being a Southerner, I detest this slur on my ancestors and the ancestors of all the brave boys in blue who were just as brave and honorable as the brave boys in gray.

There has always, from the very moment the Constitution was ratified, been two schools of interpretation of that document and of the Union it created. One is the Jeffersonian school of a strict construction and a "compact among sovereign states." The other is the Hamiltonian: loose constructionism and the United States of America as a Nation (you know, like China under Chiang or Spain under Franco, two "centralizing tyrants" one never hears neo-Confederates criticize). Both of these are valid. They are both as American as apple pie. And the neo-Confederates and "palaeo"cons who insist that the interpretation of the Jacobin sympathizing deist Thomas Jefferson is "the official and true interpretation of the United States Constitution" are parroting a falsehood.

Hamiltonianism is still American, and it is still every bit as legitimate as Jeffersonianism. And a Hamiltonian will rebel against an evil, tyrannical government every bit as soon as a Jeffersonian--without having to eviscerate his bible with a razor blade to do it.

45 posted on 03/22/2010 11:09:11 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Hinneh, 'Anokhi sholeach lakhem 'et 'Eliyyah HaNavi'; lifney bo' yom HaShem hagadol vehanora'!)
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To: The Duke

If you can’t get to the head, the belly works also.


46 posted on 03/22/2010 11:09:14 AM PDT by Republic of Texas (Socialism Always Fails)
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To: Terry Mross

“And one other thing, the best thing that happened to America at that time was the hole put in Lincoln’s head. Too bad it didn’t happen earlier. Does that get your dander up?”

I doubt that it gets anyone’s dander up, but it sure gets your credibility down. Thanks for revealing.


47 posted on 03/22/2010 11:11:38 AM PDT by getitright (If you call this HOPE, can we give despair a shot?)
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To: Tublecane
a little something

That's about it. And the Dems are figuring out how they can regulate around that.

48 posted on 03/22/2010 11:11:59 AM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: dmz

The full quote;

Sherman proposes his march to the sea:

“I propose that we break up the railroad from Chattanooga forward, and that we strike out with our wagons for Milledgeville, Millen, and Savannah. Until we can repopulate Georgia, it is useless for us to occupy it; but the utter destruction of its roads, houses, and people, will cripple their military resources. By attempting to hold the roads, we will lose a thousand men each month, and will gain no result. I can make this march, and make Georgia howl!” —from a telegram, dated 9 Oct 1864, from W.T. Sherman to U.S. Grant. Vol II, p. 152


49 posted on 03/22/2010 11:12:36 AM PDT by jessduntno (Obama in complete control of your health care and mine. What could possibly go wrong?)
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To: Lee'sGhost

“’Actually it was the ratification of the Constitution in 1787-88.’

‘Which wouldn’t have been ratified at all had it excluded slavery...which makes your point, well, pointless.’”

Huh? what does slavery have to do with anything? This is what Zionist Conspirator was responding to:

“it was Lincoln and the defeat of the Confederacy that put us on the nationalist path that has given us Obama and ObamaCare.”

And, to be sure, it’s hard to argue that the creation of the national government didn’t put us on the nationalist path more than the Civil War. Firstly, there wouldn’t have been a war without there being a national government. Secondly, Lincoln and the other nationalists were of a ming to assert the supremacy of the national government without the Civil War giving them inspiration. They thought that up all by themselves, so accustomed were they to the preeminence of the America as the U.S.


50 posted on 03/22/2010 11:12:45 AM PDT by Tublecane
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