Posted on 03/23/2010 6:42:07 PM PDT by mlizzy
It was probably more like 100%, but some got permission to vote “no” if they were in very conservative districts.
The RC church MUST start disciplining over this. Mass must be refused; church membership must be struck.
We can be absolutely required to do good works, and yet not be saved by them.
True! As a Catholic, we must go to Mass every Sunday and receive the Blessed Sacrament.
“But will you know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?” James 2:20
“Do you see that faith worked along with his works, and by the works the faith was made perfect?” James 2:22
From the perspective of the Church, those Congress critters are doomed unless they run to the mercy of God. But...their arrogance will be their undoing.
“Sadly, and of course without any sense of satisfaction, I must say there’s plenty of responsibility to go around. “
No, your post underscores the point,
Catholic = Episcopalian
If you don’t expel every offending member of Congress, you’ve made the transformation complete....
You poor, sick bastards!
Then again, what good work did the thief on the cross do?
He asked for mercy, if that is considered a work.
Anyway, basic Protestants don’t believe you get to sin all you please and go to heaven anyway.
We believe you must mortify sin. We just don’t believe that mortifying sin saves you.
Ah! To be that good thief!
That’s the trick, if only I can be so lucky. God’s mercy is powerful and I can attest to it. It is almost the Feast of Divine Mercy. April 11th I think. I pray it every day.
When my grandfather was excommunicated in 1919, the bishop called him out in church where he was sitting with his widowed mother, her only child.
Saying a politician has "excommunicated himself" when he receives communion from the hands of a bishop in communion with the See of Peter is just absurd.
It was fingers in cheek
aimed at the rabid folks who
make it SOUND LIKE
The Roman Catholic et al edifice is this
pristine, homogeneous, accurate from before Adam, saintly to the max organization with all the components more or less in 99.9999999% agreement . . . etc. etc. etc.
I know it’s a farce.
All the Prottys know it’s a farce.
Sane, thoughtful, ratioinal Roman Catholics et al know it’s a farce.
The only idiots who don’t seem to know that fantasy is a farce are the folks in the rabid cliques who worship the organization more than God.
I quite agree.
I was jabbing at the idiocies of some of the fantasies of some of the rabid clique folks who worship the organization more than God.
I respectfully disagree; works are an integral component to our salvation, as is faith through grace. God calls us to good works not only as an expression of our faith but also as a condition for salvation. James provides a reminder and discounts the belief of sola fides…
“What does it profit, my brethren, even though a man say he has faith, and have not works? Can faith save him?” James 2:14 Here, the answer is no as a single condition. Again,
“Even so faith if it has not works, is dead, being alone.” James 2:17
These two passages are typical of the doctrine that both are required. Again, James accents this by further adding,
“Yes, a man may say, you have faith and I have works: show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” James 2:18
“But will you know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?” James 2:20
“Do you see that faith worked along with his works, and by the works the faith was made perfect?” James 2:22
“You see then how that by works, a man is justified, and not by faith only.” James 2:24
This passage sums up my point and is a summation that works are required, but not works alone.
If I ever run, that will be a better label than Republican.
JEDI-Washington sounds cool.
James. Every Catholic’s fall-back. Fortunately, James does not exist apart from the rest of Scripture. And, he can not be understood apart from the rest of Scripture. James speaks of faith without works being dead, but then talks about SHOW ME your faith without works and I’ll SHOW YOU my faith by my works. Without works, the word has no idea we are Christians. Works are an outward manifestation of what has already occurred inside. They do not save us. They justify our stance before men as Christians because they show that we are Christians.
2 Timothy 1:9
9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Titus 3:5-7
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Romans 4:4-5: “Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.”
Galatians 3:21-22: “For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise of salvation by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.”
Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; ...
Romans 5:9
9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
I wouldn’t necessarily discount James because you don’t agree with him. His commentary is just as valid as other parts of scripture. James proves the point that both faith and works are necessary.
“So as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.” James 2:26
What more could St. James have said to make it any clearer that faith and works go hand in hand?
These verses could not have been written any plainer, no works begets no faith. Why did St. James repeat himself in so many verses? Why does anyone repeat himself? They do it to drive home an important point. James didn’t learn a different Gospel apart from the other Apostles.
Is it any wonder that Martin Luther called the Book of James a ‘straw epistle’? He removed it from its rightful position in his German translation of the New Testament, along with Hebrews, Jude, and Revelation, and placed them in an unpaginated index. These verses in James destroy his teaching of ‘Sola Fides’
But I don’t just use James as an example, there are others even extra-Biblical sources:
“For His workmanship we are, created in Christ Jesus in good works, which GOD has made ready beforehand that we may walk in them.” Eph 2:10
“And if you invoke as Father him who without respect of persons judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves with fear in the time of your sojourning.” 1Pet 1:17
“For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.” Rom 2:13
“For GOD shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.” Eccl 12:14
Good works are needed along with faith...
Why do Catholics believe that good works are necessary for salvation? Does not Paul say in Romans 3:28 that faith “alone” justifies? The word ‘alone’ was injected by Martin Luther in his translation. If St. Paul, who writes fluently and uses many approaches to explain justification by faith, and who uses the words ‘faith’ and ‘alone’ many times in this very Epistle, meant to write ‘Faith Alone’, he most assuredly would have done so. Catholics believe that faith and good works are both necessary for salvation, because such is the teaching of Jesus Christ.
What Our Lord demands is ‘faith which works through charity’. (Gal 5:6).
Read Mt 25:31-46, which describes the Last Judgment as being based on works of charity.
Our Lord Himself said:
‘For the Son of man...will render to every man according to his works’, (Mt 16:27).
‘And whosoever shall give to drink to one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, amen I say to you, he shall not lose his reward’, (Mt 10:42).
Catholics believe, following the Apostle Paul, that ‘every man shall receive his own reward, according to his own labor’, (1Cor 3:8).
‘For God is not unjust, that he should forget your work, and the love which you have shown in his name, you who have ministered, and do minister to the saints’, (Heb 6:10).
St. Irenaeus, one of the most illustrious of the primitive Christian Fathers wrote:
“For what is the use of knowing the truth in word, while defiling the body and accomplishing the works of evil? Or what real good at all can bodily holiness do, if truth be not in the soul? For these two, faith and good works, rejoice in each other’s company, and agree together and fight side by side to set man in the Presence of God”, (Proof of the Apostolic Preaching).
Again, St. Irenaeus echos the Church’s position and St. James. That both are necessary.
My priests are not exactly firebrands on anti-abortion. That saddens me.
Revelation 3
14"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation. 15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. 19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent.
Irenaeus and Luther were but men. James is no more inspired than Paul and must be understood in his context. I had an entire response to your message that apparently got lost and now I don’t have time to respond; but, suffice it to say I never said works weren’t necessary to the Christian life. They are. They just don’t have a part in saving you. Second, Luther is being misquoted when the right strawy epistle is applied. He was doing a little textual criticism COMPARING James to other books. He later did not include this criticism and obviously believed it was Scripture because he preached from it for goodness sake!!!! James said faith without works is dead and the context is in the text if you will let it soak in. He said SHOW ME your faith without works and I’ll show you my faith by my works. Someone who says they believe but doesn’t have works does not have the fruit of truly being a Christian. If you are a Christian, your life will show that fruit. Absent that, there is no evidence you are a Christian at all. That’s James. That’s his meaning. It doesn’t contradict Paul. The Scriptures are harmonious.
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